Talk:Pale Fire

Ergodic
Is Pale Fire an example of Ergodic literature? If so, it should be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Electrosaurus (talk • contribs) 03:21, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Aarseth mentions Pale Fire in his book "Cybertext" (p.8) under the chapter "Ergodic Literature" but does not mention it as an "example of ergodic literature" (p.9-13). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.83.137 (talk) 04:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing ergodic about the book because the three plots of the commentary are relatively straightforward; they're just dispersed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.98.192.193 (talk) 03:01, 20 January 2011 (UTC) That is not to say that questions of identity, authorship, and fiction-within-fiction do not abound.

Comment
I added the number of lines in "Pale Fire", the information that Shade was murdered and the poem was unfinished, and the connection between Kinbote and Karl.

I don't understand "The circumstances surrounding his possession of the manuscript are mysterious." The circumstances seem pretty straightforward to me. Unless somebody explains it, I'd like to delete that sentence sometime fairly soon.

Also, unless I've caused trouble with this edit, I'd like to amplify the paragraph on interpretations, since there are many beside the Shadean, Kinbotean, and "ghostean". I promise to be brief and keep a neutral point of view.

JerryFriedman 17:07, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC) (Wikinewbie)

I made changes as above. I think the discussion of Boyd's book is now more neutral. (Before, it said that he called attention to Hazel Shade's ghostly influence, but some would deny that it exists.) I wasn't as brief as I hoped to be, but as brief as I could be.

216.31.18.190 17:52, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * I used to think that Boyd's theory was far-fetched and bogus, but I've been growing more sympathetic to it as I've read more of Nabokov's minor works. The ghost business does seem like the sort of thing Nabokov would do.  In particular, anyone criticizing Boyd needs to first read Nabokov's short story The Vane Sisters.  That said, Shadeanism still seems like the most beautiful interpretation. --Shibboleth 07:01, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Calvin & Hobbes
This line: "like the tiger in Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes" makes no sense. It's gone. Feel free to put it back in if you can explain how it relates to Pale Fire. --Polynova 00:18, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)


 * I believe the idea was that most of the time Hobbes (the tiger) was a character who occasionally seemed to accomplish things in the "real" world, but in a few panels, drawn from the point of view of people other than Calvin, Hobbes was an inanimate stuffed animal. Just as undecidable as whether Kinbote is Shade's creation or the other way around (except that neither of those possibilities interests me, and I doubt that Nabokov intended either).  However, all this has inspired me to find an external link for the goblet.  And maybe somebody needs to put it into Wikipedia!  &mdash;JerryFriedman 04:20, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Zembla
If "Zembla" is based on a real place, I think that it is more likely to be based on Severnaya Zemlya than Novaya Zemlya, which indeed means Northern Land as it is described in the book --- Revolver66 22:49 20/12/07

Hazel's suicide or not
Although I think for a brief summary just calling Hazel a "death by suicide" is fine, Shade says that her death is spoken of as an accident, and that it is only but that he and Sibyl are emotionally certain that it was deliberate. It's not really a question of reader interpretation but of Shade's presentation of the facts.


 * People have thought she tried to cross the lake
 * At Lochan Neck where zesty skaters crossed
 * From Exe to Wye on days of special frost
 * Others supposed she might have lost her way
 * By turning left from Bridgeroad; and some say
 * She took her poor young life. I know. You know.

Dybryd 21:28, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Stephen Blackwell, who has published a well-respected works on Nabokov, wrote this at NABOKV-L:
 * Did Hazel commit suicide, or did she take a chance--maybe the ice would hold up?? (Shade "knows"--but can we be sure?)


 * Here's another post from NABOKV-L in which two people doubt that Hazel committed suicide.


 * I don't know of any published doubts, but in view of the above, I prefer the "apparently" wording. &mdash;JerryFriedman 00:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Lev Yashin in Allusions section?
Wonder for what reason Yashin was included, and damn that music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DBWikis (talk • contribs) 04:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * He's got to be the "stupendous Dynamo goalkeeper" whose mannerisms Niagarin could imitate. See, although not that frequently, the note to line 681.  &mdash;JerryFriedman 04:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Good
Just wanted to say good work to those behind the interpretation section. It's clear and informative, but still made me laugh out loud when i read it - the reasoning of Pale Fire analysts is as twisted as the story itself.

-- Tom Anderson 05/01/2008 15:19 +0000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.56.80.10 (talk) 15:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Haze and Hazel
The daughter's name is Hazel and Lolita's last name is Haze. Surely that's an allusion, but I don't know if it's worthy of inclusion; inserting it seems to disrupt the flow.—OlYeller (talk) 15:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Though one can do even better&mdash;Lolita could be "Haze, L."&mdash;I'm inclined to agree that it's not worth including. I don't remember seeing it in anything I've read.  Of course, if some reliable says it's important, that's different.  &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 21:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hurricane Lolita is also mentioned in the book, and Professor Pnin is also mentioned. Perhaps this could be included in a section that discusses Pale Fire's references to other works by Nabokov? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.35.195 (talk) 20:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)