Talk:Paramilitary punishment attacks in Northern Ireland

October 2001 re-listing
Loyalist paramilitaries UDA/UFF, and LVF were re-listed as terrorist organizations in October 2001 after they were found to be involved in punishment attacks is dubious. While the reference is talking about punishment attacks then goes on to say In October 2001 the government concluded, in the wake of violence in the North Belfast area that the UDA, Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF) and LVF were no longer maintaining their ceasefires and specified these organisations, it doesn't appear to be making a direct connection between punishment attacks and the October 2001 specification. Crimes of Loyalty: A History of the UDA by Ian S. Wood (Edinburgh University Press, ISBN 978-0748624270) pages 274-5 says in September 2001 John Reid announced that he would give the UDA ‘one last chance’, claiming to have had assurances from its leaders that they would order members to withdraw from attacks and interface confrontations (see interface area). He then further states on 12 October, Reid changed his mind and announced that as far as he and the government were concerned the UDA ceasefire was over. This came in response to serious rioting the night before on the Shankill Road, when police searching houses for drugs and arms came under attack from a large crowd hurling petrol bombs and other missiles at them. The Guardian say The decision by the Northern Ireland secretary, John Reid, to call the bluff of the larger of the two organisations is the culmination of RUC investigations. These exposed the UDA/UFF's involvement in more than 200 pipe bomb attacks on Catholic homes in the past year and in last month's drive-by shooting of a Newtownabbey teenager, Gavin Brett, as well as several other murders. The Guardian also says the LVF's ceasefire was no longer recognised because of the murder of Martin O'Hagan, as clarified by John Reid's actual statement. There were a lot of things going on in October 2001 (and the months before), most obviously the Holy Cross dispute which was causing all kinds of problems between the two communities. While there certainly were punishment attacks being carried out by various republican and loyalist paramilitary groups, the British government were more concerned about inter-community violence (which had the potential to escalate very quickly) then intra-community violence. FDW777 (talk) 08:05, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking into this more closely. I was just relying on what one RS stated without investigating further. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:27, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's no problem, it's a reasonable conclusion to draw based on what the reference implied, especially as all they talk about for pages leading up to October 2001 is intra-community violence. I just realised the situation is even more complex than the wording suggested. The UDA/UFF and LVF were "specified", and I had to do some checking as to exactly what that was, as the UDA was de-specified in November 2004, yet remain a proscribed organisation under the Terrorism Act 2000. Specified organisations are dealt with in the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998 (the legislation that allowed the conditional early release as part of the Good Friday Agreement). According to that a specified organisation is concerned in terrorism connected with the affairs of Northern Ireland, or in promoting or encouraging it and has not established or is not maintaining a complete and unequivocal ceasefire. This is then covered in the Terrorism Act 2000, which states as specified organisation is one which is specified under section 3(8) of the M1Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998, and it is, or forms part of, an organisation which is proscribed for the purposes of this Act. So essentially, being specified and proscribed (the term used for formal designation under the Terrorism Act 2000) are two different things, specified is more to do with whether an organisation's ceasefire is recognised or not, and the effect that has on early prisoner release or some court proceedings. FDW777 (talk) 13:03, 16 October 2020 (UTC)