Talk:Patina

Definitions
What's the difference between verdigris and patina?

I think (not sure, but no one else has piped up) the difference is stability. The defining element of a patina is its stability, while verdegris describes a problem that might or might not be active corrosion.128.174.89.239 14:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Fake
What is this line supposed to mean? "When creating a forgery potato mold is added as a substitute for Patina." Is the following more accurate? "When creating a forgery [antique sculpture?] potato mold is added to create a patina." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.153.160 (talk) 02:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * What is potato mold? Suggest deletion Plantsurfer (talk) 08:07, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * the line means that potato mold has a look that is similar to that of patina, and can be put onmetal objects to make it look like it has patina, which, if it did have patina, would increase it's value.


 * Also, potato mold is a type of mold (fungus) that most commonly grows on potatos. Yahoowill54321 (talk) 07:18, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Rem tags
Hope the rewrite and expansions answered the concerns of the tags, so removed these. Julia Rossi (talk) 10:24, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Noble Rust?
Noble Rust redirects here, but it isn't mentioned as a synonym in the article. There may be other synonyms, but noble rust is probably the most notable and should be mentioned somewhere. --66.188.84.217 (talk) 17:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

a patina s not only a product of age
A patina is the term used to indicate the finish of a bronze sculpture after it has been removed from its negative and has been chased. The patina is acquired from an application of heat and chemicals. Artists keep secret their recipes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noakk (talk • contribs) 19:37, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Chinese characture?
I'm not sure what the purpose of the sentence with the Chinese characture is? I'd delete it or else add more explanation. Chris (can't be bothered to sign in) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.98.20.99 (talk) 15:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree. And why is it in the "advantages" section?! I don't understand how a Chinese mistranslation is an advantage. I deleted it. For reference, the sentence in questions was "The Chinese translation is not quite right where it applies to rust on copper; it should be simply "铜绿"." - Also, it was not cited or relevant.75.87.250.78 (talk) 16:46, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Usage of term colloquially/figuratively
E.g. In "The Making of Truth Serum' by Alison Winter, 2005, the author writes: "It argues that truth serum had the patina of modern science but produced a phenomenon that could be understood and evaluated by everyman"

I don't know how common this usage of the term is, but perhaps it could be briefly mentioned in the introduction.

For example: "Patina is also often used in a figurative sense..." CrocodilesAreForWimps (talk) 00:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Just about ANY term can be used in figurative speech and it is pretty much impossible that the figurative use of a term would be more typical use, than in its prime meaning. I disagree with the above suggestion since that would logically lead to adding the clausule of a possible figurative use to every single article. And also the figurative meaning can be figured out from the knowledge of the term's primal meaning.80.99.38.199 (talk) 21:15, 22 November 2017 (UTC).

Nordic embassies
The Nordic embassies were made of 4000 pre - patinated tiles to facilitate their even texture. It should therefore be under applied patina, not acquired patina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.91.18.10 (talk) 12:52, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Patina as a culinary term
Perhaps this article should also refer to the use of patina as a culinary term and link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasoning_(cookware)

I found this article when searching for a good definition of the surface that a well-seasoned cast iron pan develops over time. Chefs refer to this as a patina and have even named restaurants after it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.39.33.176 (talk) 13:02, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

To my understanding that is NOT a culinary term, since it is not about food and it's taste. It is a technological term related to protection of metal surfaces by a layer of corrosion that blocks further corrosion of the covered surface.80.99.38.199 (talk) 21:18, 22 November 2017 (UTC).

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External links modified (January 2018)
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Usage: Steel
The 'usage' section of this article currently lists rust on steel as a common example of patina. This section should be removed, or modified to indicate that this is a common misnomer seen in popular speech, but not correct. A patina consists of a thin, benign (non-spreading) oxidation layer that develops on metals, desired for its aesthetic appeal, protective qualities, or both. The rust found on weathered steel is neither of these; it is the product of wear and improper maintenance. Rust will continue to spread and develop even after the initial coat develops (not benign), it compromises the structural integrity of the steel (not protective), and it is not generally considered aesthetically pleasing. Further, this usage of the word is actively discouraged by people working in the metal-working industry as improper usage; the improper usage typically stems from a desire to convince oneself, or one's customers, that damage and wear to a given piece is something other than damage and wear. For these reason, the sentence in question should be altered.

I contest this assertion. Please explain to me how weathering steel with the brand name COR-TEN® - that is steel manufactured under ASTM A588 and A606-4 - does not develop a patina. Yes the patina is rust, but it is intentional and protective. These alloys of steel are used for architectural applications as well as sculpture and furniture.

You state that ‘the rust on weathered steel is neither of these [aesthetic appeal or protective qualities]; it is the product of wear and improper maintenance.’ This is absolutely false. The weathering steel A588 and A606-4 is chosen specifically for its aesthetic qualities related to how it oxidizes and the fact that it forms a protective layer that does not require painting.

I see how you would come to this conclusion in the context of gun restoration. Unplanned rust on an object in normal steel is undesirable and leads to the degradation of the object, should be removed, and therefore should not be considered a patina. But this leads to the untrue assertion that rust on steel may never be a patina. Furthermore your citation is absolutely inadequate. When you cite a youtube video please note at what point the video supports the claim with evidence. A timestamp please. I watched the entire video to have the person at the very end make a sloppy assertion about rust on gun parts not being a patina. This is not evidence or even a coherent definition, just a man claiming ‘I’m right!’ It is absolutely worthless, and you wasted my time.

In the article I see you use the sentence ‘weathering rust on steel is often mistakenly[3] referred to as patina. This is a particularly badly formed sentence because rust on weathering steel is a patina. It should be removed, it is not important to the article and is misleading.

If you want to make the point that rust on an object to be restored is not desirable and should not be considered a patina I am all for it. That makes sense to me as the rust was not part of the original design of the object and has a negative effect on the object's longevity.

I hope that your comment was the result of just not knowing about the application of weathering steel such as COR-TEN® and that you agree with me that a different way of addressing your concern is warranted. Mostly I would prefer the line removed as I see it as misleading and not helpful to the article.

Below is a quote from the website https://www.corten.com/frequently-asked-questions.html More information can be found on this websites and other websites that reference COR-TEN®.

‘ASTM A588, A242, A606 and COR-TEN® exhibit superior corrosion resistance over regular carbon steel as a result of the development of a protective oxide film on the metals surface which slows down further corrosion.’ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deminhizer (talk • contribs) 04:59, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Auguste Rodin and urination?
"More simply, the French sculptor Auguste Rodin used to instruct assistants at his studio to urinate over bronzes stored in the outside yard. A patina can be produced on copper by the application of vinegar (acetic acid)" - is there a source for this? Not that I want it to be fake but would appreciate the confirmation... Liningofthemoon (talk) 07:22, 1 June 2024 (UTC)