Talk:Penguin/Archive 2

Intro
Way too many specifics in the intro paragraphs about how many species of penguin there are. Important info, but info that should be somewhere else in the article. This kind of variation/disagreement in species counts is common and not unique to penguins.69.14.27.0 (talk) 16:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll find "their wings have become flippers" is more accurate than "their flippers have become wings..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.80.190.200 (talk) 09:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

^^ I don't think thats very objective. Saying "their wings have become flippers" in the context in which it is presented denotes that penguins are a changing species, which right now they are not. Perhaps stating "instead of wings, they have flippers" keeps the tense in the present, as we are discussing present text with the penguins in this paragraph. Later during their "history", if you have evidence that they had wings that could allow them to fly, you could state "they adapted and their wings became flippers". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.50.143.222 (talk) 20:29, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I think "Highly adapted for life in the water, penguins have countershaded dark and white plumage, and their wings have become flippers" could be rephrased "Highly adapted for life in the water, penguins have countershaded plumage and flipper-like wings". "Countershaded" already basically means "dark and white", and while it's true that their wings "have become" flippers through evolution, stating this isn't really necessary.69.68.152.226 (talk) 19:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

One could also keep it more generic by speaking only of the animals' "forelimbs," which are adapted to propelling them through the water. Peter Delmonte (talk) 19:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Hiiiii

Do Penguins have knees?
Do they I think this need to be researched more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.18.18.84 (talk) 02:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Good point. I never thought about that, but is this the natural position of the tibiotarsus?! Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 21:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I know that they do, in fact, have knees. It is like they are pressed up against thier chest inside thier body. Check out ] 15:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * They do this to allow the brood pouch to cover the egg when laying down. Try to put your stomach on your shoes and see how your knees get in the way. You can see them bend back when they walk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.64.154.197 (talk) 21:06, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Icadyptes paper in PNAS
Did anyone check it out yet? Phew. Grand. I think if I deep-read it, I'll need a week go get the hang of it. Be sure to get the supplement to read the phylogeny correctly.
 * I no get!
 * See here. Dysmorodrepanis 11:34, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Finally, some serious pattern emerges, if you compare short branches from the paper with support values from the supplement. Palaeeudyptines certainly paraphyletic (type genus too), but Simpson's merger of Anthropornis therein seems good. Icadyptes is fairly trivial, but Perudyptes is decidedly incertae sedis. Basal branch of the first giants, apparently. Also interesting: that the Eocene mini spp are so basal. Got the Inguza paper BTW. Dysmorodrepanis 19:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ugh! Digging through the data, I note that the divergence times are wrong either here or in Baker et al. 2006. Bad bad bad. I need to look at it very close and check the 2 recent papers on clock calibration. I'd tend to say that the new paper is better and at least the paleobios among the authors are usually reliable. But OTOH, from my experience with reviewing molecular clock papers, "fast" clocks for seabirds are usually erroneous - especially in Procellariiformes it's documented, and the case for at least some of these and penguins being evolutionarily at least in the same neighbourhood is rather convincing.
 * On the other hand, what's funny is that the hypotheis of Baker et al. are little affected by this clocking problem. It's mostly whether the extant pengu's ancestors loitered around in the Pacific and Argentina until the circumantarctic seas were open, or whether their divergence occurred when the current was already flowing freely.
 * But still, the difference is huge. Especially if it's based on the same genes (the present paper uses some 12% longer sequences. But that should not make such a difference). Dysmorodrepanis 03:02, 6 July 1926 (UTC)
 * Moving on: there's a new member of the basal Spheniscus lineage described in APP. This is incompatible with the clock of the new paper, period. Even if the "basal Spheniscus" are considered a distinct genus, they'd evolve two million years too late.
 * As the new Spheniscus description was written at the same time as the PNAS paper but published earlier and the PNAS paper is still in preprint, I hope this will be resolved in the final version.
 * Regarding Anthropornis, on second looks I'm less sure about them being inseparable from palaeeudyptines. But as they form a reasonably-supported basal branch in the palaeeudyptine s str. polytomy, it's probably better to leave them merged for the time being. Dysmorodrepanis 15:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Technically the contention that penguins face no land predators on Antarctica and Antarctic islands is not completely correct: abandoned sled dogs that remained in Antarctica thrived by preying upon penguins. Dogs no longer have the role in Antarctic exploration that they once did, and if dogs are not banned outright on Antarctica, they are closely controlled in that continent so that they do not become the "tigers of Antarctica" as the one land predator capable of killing penguins. --Paul from Michigan 05:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to mention humans of course. Penguin stew fried in penguin oil, a common meal of explorers til (I think) the mid-20th century. Plus, there might be the cats and pigs that have overrun some subantarctic islands. So the issue could be explained in detail, or simply corrected by inserting the word "native" before "land". Dysmorodrepanis 08:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

21 links to no where
There are 21 links that go to articles that are non-existent, any objections to me getting rid of them? Sirkad  (Talk)  02:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If no one responds to this in 24 hours I will take out the links. Sirkad  (Talk)  00:58, 7 December 2007 black 123
 * Changing them all now. Sirkad  (Talk)  23:51, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 04:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Penguin lifespan
I am currently watching a documentary which has a segment on Penguins. I was hoping to jump on here and find out the average life span of penguins. I couldn't find it in the article, of course I would hope to find it as part of the introduction. If anyone could find out this information and include it here I would really appreciate it. Alan.ca (talk) 02:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I find this website | Busch Gardens to be almost more useful(see utility) than the wiki site. According to it, penguins live an average of 15-20 years. Smooth0707 (talk) 19:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Like so cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.134.21.61 (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I’m also quite curious as to what the lifespan of a Penguin is.--DavidD4scnrt (talk) 07:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll hunt that up soon. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It isn't only pigs
I was amazed by this story when it first appeared on my rss feed. Then with a rather blunt epithet my daughter pointed to the date of the story. --Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 12:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I heard that story, too, it was pretty shocking. I think someone should alter the article. I'd do it myself, but i'm not familiar with the formatting of Wikipedia--99.225.57.217 (talk) 03:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * April Fools! As such, it may not deserve a mention... Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 03:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It definitely shouldn't go into the article. I mentioned it here, in part, in case someone fooled by it might try to add the information to the article. --Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 11:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Error
French interwiki should be fr:Spheniscidae not manchot ! 86.76.216.62 (talk) 10:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Penguins as food
Eh? Eh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 00:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

August 1578. Francis Drake on entering the Magellan Strait, St Bartholomeu Day. Three Islands bearing triangle-wise. Named Elizabeth Island, Saint George's, and Bartholomew "space of 1 day we killed no lesse than 3000,it is not to be thought that the world hath brought forth a greater blessing......they are a very good and wholesome victuall" 7 week food supply for over 200 men<---Autosigned by ED---> Feb 2010.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.90.212 (talk) 11:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Life expectancy
Can we get an approximate life expectancy for penguins? Badagnani (talk) 05:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC) Normally aproximatly 12.5 yearsDman8929 (talk) 19:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Sexuality
Penguin coupling is mentioned twice in the article but never expanded upon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.192.193 (talk) 05:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

"Male penguin couples have also been documented. They too mate for life and build nests together. Male couples have been recorded using a stone to replace sitting on an egg in the nest. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one male couple's stone with a fertile egg which they then raised as their own offspring. This was the basis for the children's picture book And Tango Makes Three. Homosexuality among penguins has also been reported by a German zoo and Kelly Tarlton's Aquarium in Auckland New Zealand." is from http://www.newsdial.com/animals/birds/penguin-anatomy.html under GFDL. but the page is locked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.192.193 (talk) 06:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

History of penguin-human interaction
This is a subject the article seemingly current omits; this could include not only usage as food but also which penguin species were kno'n since prehistory (to the relevant Southern Hemisphere peeps, that is), when the others were discovered and by whom, historical views on them, etc.

A (more prominent?) general distribution section would be nice too. --Tropylium (talk) 06:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Toy parrots in lines image
Can the image of toy parrots in a line facing each other be unlinked from the page? It does not add anything to the page and the link in the caption is irrelevant to birds. Currently it juts into the reference section. I am sure that there are better and more relevant images than this one. Snowman (talk) 18:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Concur. I don't see that the image serves any useful purpose here, particularly in the light that many relevant and useful images that illustrate the variations between penguin species have recently been removed, and that current WP thinking is that pop cult sections and trivia should be avoided! As there already is a Penguins in popular culture page, IMHO the entire content of this section belongs there, possibly along with the image in question, leaving just the link to that page. (The other image in the section is at least of an existing company mascot and thus more acceptable.) --Red Su ns et    20:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have added a few images showing penguin diversity. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 21:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Suitable additions – good! --Red Su ns et    21:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Penguin (3 votes) is collaboration for October-Novmber 2008
Nominated October 22 2008; Support: Comments:
 * 1) MeegsC | Talk 10:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Snowman (talk) 11:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Other than Bird and Chicken, this article registers the highest number of hits—more than 80,000 per month, according to this. It would be nice to be able to give people a really top-notch article to read. MeegsC | Talk 10:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that is is a good strategy to work on key articles like this one, and a few other very popular pages. Snowman (talk) 11:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good choice, good reasons cited. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

To-do list
I need to read up on the family as a whole, main issue is referencing and reading material first. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The usual sections need expanding, behaviour, conservation, diet and feeding, distribution. Also, Im not sure that Isabelline penguins is a particularly relevant on needed subsection, it seems rather trivial. Most species have albinos or melanistic individuals. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  19:05, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

As regards Isabellinism, the Isabella referred to is the wrong one. For the correct one, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanta_Isabella_Clara_Eugenia_of_Spain. Karl —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karl Irresberger (talk • contribs) 22:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Presence on Most Vandalized Pages
I've checked the history of this article and it's not received significant vandalism for ages so, unless there are any objections, I'll remove it from the page. Hadrian89 (talk) 04:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The topic of penguin intelligence....
may need to be added to this article.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090107113421AANb1gc

I watched a documentary of the animals once and found they are like dolphins, which have a close bond with humans —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.228.147.130 (talk) 04:08, 7 February 2009 (UTC) Penguins are cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.179.11 (talk) 04:34, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Recent catastrophe of freezing rain
Is it true that in 2008, the Emperor Penguin lost 80 percent of its unhatched offspring due to freezing rain? I don't know if this is true or not, but I naturally became quite alarmed when I heard it. The emperor penguin lays its eggs on its feet (because it spends the entire season on a shelf of ice, far from the nearest waterholes available for diving into, to obtain food). Rain is unusual in that geographic region. When it came down, it coated 80 percent of the eggs, causing them to freeze when the temperature dipped. If this is true, that represents a catastrophic loss of numbers for the Emperor Penguin. Can anybody update the main article by verifying this information? I got this information from a local Green Peace volunteer. 198.177.27.20 (talk) 06:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * This happened to Adelie Penguins in 2008. From a quick Google search, I don't see anything about emperor penguin mortality from freezing rain, but in 2006 one colony probably lost a year's chicks because the ice under them melted. Our article does seem to lack information about threats to penguin populations such as these. -- Avenue (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Unbalanced article
The Penguin article is grossly unbalanced. The taxonomy, evolution and fossil species form the majority of the article. Ecology, anatomy, adaptations, conservation, status etc are given scant treatment. I suggest evolution and the fossil species list be hived of to another article. AshLin (talk) 16:30, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, AshLin, the Penguin article is "grossly unbalanced" because it's a work in progress, and far from complete! If you've got stuff to add, dive in!  ; )  It wouldn't be appropriate to hive things off to another article at this point, because this is an overview article—and we don't have any indication that it's going to be "too long" (which it certainly isn't at this point).
 * Thanks for the response. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have much action (less than 10 edits in last three months). Considering this is the third most popular bird article in the WikiProject, I was looking at Penguin in the light as the next candidate for spoken wikipedia. Even simple, unreferenced text would be good to have. Imagining the thousands of hits the artcle takes and doesnt quite meet reader's expectations, I feel this should be a high priority. I'll pitch in but I have no materials on penguin except of course the internet. AshLin (talk) 04:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I have a monograph. Bear with me and I will get to it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

New review paper on penguin past
There is a new review paper on penguin past: Jadwiszczak P. 2009. Penguin past: The current state of knowledge. Polish Polar Research 30(1): 3-28. Free PDF available from: http://www.polish.polar.pan.pl 212.33.72.154 (talk) 12:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Penguin Awareness Day
I heard on the radio today, and have seen on various calendars previously, that April 24th is evidently "Penguin Awareness Day." Is there anyone who can substantiate this claim? It seems a little odd to me ("Let's all take a moment of silence to reflect upon the vital role that penguins play in the ecostructure of the Southern Hemisphere").


 * The BBC mentions World Penguin Day 2015 here:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150425-a-world-of-amazing-penguins but do not mention a date. Was news to me and I would hope one day we'd get a comprehensive global list what's been proclaimed for Days of, or weeks, etc. 58.174.224.4 (talk) 03:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Greenpeace says 25 April: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/getinvolved/Celebrate-World-Penguin-Day-by-protecting-their-homes/ William Avery (talk) 07:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Problems with the "Penguins and Humans" section
This section seems to refer only to the species of penguins native to Antarctica, which is a smaller subset of penguins. Most penguin species do not live in Antarctica, and many of those do show a fear of humans. 12.40.5.69 (talk) 15:57, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

They CAN't Fly!
Penguins can't fly, even though they have wings somewhat durable for flight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.103.247 (talk) 14:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, here's another poser: What color is the White House? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, they do fly, except it's through water. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

who cares if they cant fly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.52.58.178 (talk) 15:41, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Flying is through the air. They swim. WikipediaUserCalledChris (talk) 16:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Etymology
This section contains irrelevant sentences, non-factual information, unreferenced evidence, misleadingly written comments, false references and is very biased. Appears to have been written by someone with no knowledge of the subject of etymology or linguistic change.

"Penguin may come from the Latin pinguis, “fat”. This is supported by the fact that the corresponding words in most other languages (e.g., French pingouin, German Pinguin) have i instead of e as the first vowel."

The French vowel represented here by "i" followed by "n" does NOT correspond to the close front vowel "i". It is in fact open-mid and central and therefore more distant than the "e" referred to here which is commonly a cognate of "i" in dialects of many European languages. The reference is to the Oxford English Dictionary, which does not contain this information! It seems to have been invented from by the opinions of a non-linguist as does the rest of this section.

"What may be a King Penguin but certainly is a member of the Spheniscidae appears on a 1599 map at the Strait of Magellan with the caption "Pinguyn"."

Then why would the map be labelled fat? This makes no sense and is not evidence, certainly not without a reference.

"The map's features are labeled in Latin, such as Fretum Magellanicum ("Strait of Magellan"). "

This is irrelevant to the topic of the penguin. 'A map in Latin' later followed be a reference link would be ample.

"In addition, there is ample evidence that the Latin term anser magellanicus ("Goose of Magellan" or "Magellanic Goose") was the usual term for penguins in the scholarly literature of that time."

This does not prove the etymology of the English word penguin and should be removed as it confuses the earlier point of 'pinguis'.

"As a side note, the French pingouin actually translates to English as the Auk, as penguins are called manchot in French."

This sidenote is irrelevant and confusing as pingouin does translate to penguin! The Auk is also commonly referred to as a type of penguin by non-experts and so could well have been the original penguin, the south pole cousins being labelled by the same term upon first contact due to their similarities.

"The word Penguin is thought by some to derive from the Welsh words pen (head) and gwyn (white),[1] applied to the Great Auk which had white spots in front of its eyes (although its head was black); or from an island off Newfoundland known as Pengwyn, due to its having a large white rock. (In the latter case, the name may also have come from Breton.) This fanciful theory is highly unlikely, since penguins do not actually have white heads,"

This is in the Oxford English Dictionary as the PROBABLE origin of the word penguin, not a mocked theory. This paragraph is the most biased of the section, especially obvious in the sentence "this fanciful theory...", which should certainly be deleted to maintain this article's neutrality. Wikipedia articles frequently cite the OED as one of the most reliable sources of information available. It should be noted that the Auks were found in the Newfoundland area at the time of colonisation as currently no link is given. Also, that the French fishermen were largely from Brittany due to their skills from coastal living and some of the largest and nearest seaports from France to the New World being in Brittany.

"...and there are no other examples of a Welsh word becoming the basis of words throughout Europe languages. Welsh was not even spoken in England, let alone throughout Europe."

The first sentence is unfounded. There are several words of Brythonic Celtic origin which have entered Western European languages, proving the exact origin is more tricky due to the scarceness of information in historical records. The second sentence is incorrect and irrelevant as the proposed etymology does not involve the word penguin becoming popularised in Welsh and transferring to English in England or having Welsh as a language of enormous influence as Latin! The point is, the term would have been coined near where there were penguins, 'not even in England, let alone throughout Europe'! Another point being the bias of the emotive language used.

"Furthermore penguins have no particular link to the Welsh which would lead foreigners loan a word from Welsh" Ref:British Library Sloane MS 61. Page 58 line 8. Francis Fletcher Log (Chaplain aboard with Francis Drake) August 24 day, 1578 Magellan Strait. "FOULE WCH THE WELCH NAME PENGWIN" transliteration by Penzer page 128 line 27.

Again this points to the attitude and opinions, not gathered facts, of a non-linguist. There would need to be contact between only between one Welsh speaker and a penguin at some point. And contrary to this unresearched etymology, there is a particular link to the Welsh and penguins which would lead foreigners TO loan a word from Welsh. The Welsh colonists of Patagonia would have been among the first to settle near the region of the Magellan straight.

"A Welsh i is often sound-shifted to an e in the English language"

Unattested. Linked reference does not imply this. It is either misunderstood or misinterpreted by the author. Is not used in paragraph to relate to the word penguin originating in Welsh or not as there is no "Welsh i" in the word penguin (pengwyn). Pengwin, Francis Fletcher's log with Francis Drake. ":WCH THE WELCH NAME PENGWIN" August 24 day 1578 On entering the Magellan Strait

"In a final twist to the story, the term "Magellanic Goose" (today usually "Magellan Goose") in our time has come to denote an actual anseriform, namely a Chloephaga sheldgoose."

Again, what relevance to the etymology of "penguin" ? This should be a factual article not a story! 62.6.163.93 (talk) 21:12, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

About the etimology of the word "penguin". Etimology of this word is from Spanish "pingüe" (fat; fatty). During the first circumnavigation (1519-1522) led by Magellan, the Spaniards discovered penguins in the Southern Atlantic. Mistaking them for some sort of fat geese, they described them as such (gansos pingües); hence "pinguino", which has passed to other languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.101.252.103 (talk) 15:22, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed 62.6.163.93 - the etymology section needs some serious restructuring, not just for facts, but also for wikifying ("a final twist to the story", etc).
 * 192, I seriously doubt your "gansos pingües" "etymology": a Google search brings up no results for "gansos pingües", and, for what it's worth, the DRAE attributes a French origin to the Spanish word.  --  the Great   Gavini  16:10, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Confussion comes from the fact that "pingüe" and "pingüino" in Spanish seems to be etymologically related (by their phonetic similarity, pingüe+ino), but no dictionary at all relates both words. Coromines believed in the Welsh origin of the name (supposedly they were discovered firstly on sub-Artic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinguinus_impennis, after on Antartic lands).91.117.9.231 (talk) 01:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The British Library. SLOANE MS NO.61. F35R Page 58, line 8 Francis Fletcher's Log (Chaplain aboard with Francis Drake) on entering the Magellan Strait August 24 day 1578. "FOWLE WCH THE WELCH NAME PENGWIN AND MAGELANUS TEARMED THEM GEESE" Transliteration by N. M. Penzer The World Encompassed Page 128. Line 27. Crew had 4 Thomas inc a Wattkins & Artyur. Welsh? The Magellanic Penguin has some distinct white head feather characteristics. <--Autosigned by ED---> 12 Feb 2010 eddie.budd@ntlworld.com

Also, The OFFICIAL PROGRESS OF THE FIRST DUKE OF BEAUFORT THROUGH WALES, in 1684 Original MS by Thomas Dineley. Page 406 Lines down 5-7. "Also a certain bird with a white head they call Pengwiu....the white rock called Pengwyn, which be all Welsh words" <---Autosigned by ED...> 12 Feb.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.90.212 (talk) 17:31, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

- Whatever the etymology of the word, the current section is contradictory, parts of it make little sense and is highly confusing (I'm not sure whether the Breton is supposed to come from the French, which, if it's gaelic seems implausible; if it's not Gaelic, what's Breton got to do with anything?). The section either needs a rewrite or needs to be deleted. 84.114.214.144 (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Penguin meat
I was shocked/ surprised to read in an article about South Africa how in the past coastal people used to eat penguins. This is entirely new to me - and I have lived here for 35 years. However, if you type "Penguin meat" in the wikipedia search field, there are numerous occurences, mostly of seafaring expeditions. Are there any records of penguins being a regular food sources, outside of emergency situations? --Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 00:00, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Erm.... Why shocked?

Tux
Is Tux the Linux mascot really relevant? 99 percent of the worlds internet users don't know or care what Linux is. I think Wikipedia should try to limit the computer-trivia leakage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.212.224.146 (talk) 20:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC) Tux and Pingu are the most famous fictional penguins in the West - therefor relevent.

Galapagos ambiguity
"Although all penguin species are native to the southern hemisphere, they are not found only in cold climates, such as Antarctica. In fact, only a few species of penguin actually live so far south. At least 10 species live in the temperate zone; one, the Galápagos Penguin, lives as far north as the Galápagos Islands, but this is only made possible by the cold, rich waters of the Antarctic Humboldt Current that flows around these islands."

There are two meanings to the last part of the sentence. Do you mean that historically ancestors have been able to migrate from southern regions to Galapagos because they followed this current or that their present life is possible only because of this actual current (food, temperature) ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.161.70.114 (talk) 12:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Why do they all live in southern hemisphere?
I read that penguin entry and I don't know why they only live in the southern hemisphere. Shouldn't that be in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.215.84 (talk) 21:14, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What if no one knows? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Because they evolved there and haven't had time to evolve for/move to hotter climates. The Humboldt is nearly equatorial. --Kurtle (talk) 21:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If someone wanted to mess with the heads of future paleontologists, they could transport a colony of Antarctic penguins to comparable habitats in the Arctic region, and if they thrive, those future scientists will go nuts wondering how they got there. Although it would also be interesting as a long-term test of Darwinian evolutionary theory. That is, after a few millenia, would the species still be identical with their south pole cousins? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * They are a cold climate family, and the tropics are a barrier to their dispersal. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 22:08, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Map
Considering the wide range of the Penguin, it seems a good idea to have a distribution map without having to go into the seperate species articles. --Kurtle (talk) 21:52, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Unknown Penguin Facts
1. Penguins are the 21st most dangerous animal in the world but only in the water where they can swarm. 2. Penguins are pack hunting animals with a dominant male that has to defend his leader position from challenging males. 3. Penguins can't run or walk fast but they can slide on there bellies at 45 mph (commonly called Death Slides) 4. Penguins are killer wales that have evolved into a more efficiant killer 5. Penguins communicate via telepathy while under water. They also use this power to hypnitize there prey by swimming in circles. This is commonly called th Death Vortex. 6. Penguins have better vision above and below water than any other animal alive this is a crutial trait that has established them as one of the worlds greatest killers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stroudj (talk • contribs) 04:41, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * You almost had me going until you got to item 4. Penguins are birds, while killer whales (orcas) are mammals. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:07, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * LOL,that first comment was weird.The second was fine!Redarrow777 (talk) 15:53, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from 122.57.101.107, 18 August 2011
Penguins don't have knees which explains their walking posture, this causes the penguins to 'waddle'. They have one bone that runs from the pelvis to the tarsals and is a disadvantage for them as it makes it easier for prey to hunt them.

122.57.101.107 (talk) 10:08, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Penguins most certainly do have knees, just like every other bird. Google "penguin skeleton" and have a look at the many, many examples to see them.  What most people think of as birds' knees (i.e. the backwards bending joint in their leg) are actually ankles — which penguins also have.  However, the proportions of their leg bones cause penguins to look like they don't have knees.  In reality, their knees are under their feathers close to their body.  You can actually see the "bulge" of them when you watch larger penguins walk. MeegsC | Talk 11:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

edit request
please add this:. they can fly! :) 75.149.68.209 (talk) 22:26, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was a good one, wasn't it? Particularly since it looked like a BBC report. MeegsC | Talk 22:40, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Bulver, 5 September 2011
Outdated link to Seaworld. Should be: http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/penguin/index.htm

Bulver (talk) 08:28, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Thanks --Jnorton7558 (talk) 09:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Paper Penguins have been around for years
Hi, Just a quick message to say that the 18th species of penguin has been spotted at www.paperpenguins.co.uk after many years of rare sightings. The Paper Penguin has been seen all over the world, including Hawaii, New Zealand and the North Pole! One even works at the Blue Penguin Colony at Oamaru, New Zealand. Please feel free to visit the site and contact me as to any ideas for the site. It's intended to be a fun, educational site for all ages. Thanks Guy Wooles — Preceding unsigned comment added by GuyWooles (talk • contribs) 21:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's probably just a cut-out from the Daily Mail.Heh,heh,get the joke?Sorry,but there are only 17 full species of penguin.This "paper penguin" might even be what is known as a subspecies,but your discovery does sound most interesting.Redarrow777 (talk) 15:59, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from, 10 November 2011
Hi. I'd like to add some citations to a few sections in the penguin wiki page.

Under the basal fossils section. I believe that the citation for the the sentence, "While they were not as well-adapted to aquatic life as modern penguins, Waimanu were generally loon-like birds but already flightless, with short wings adapted for deep diving.[citation needed]" should be from the article: Slack, K. E., C. M. Jones, T. Ando, G. L. Harrison, R. E. Fordyce, U. Arnason, and D. Penny. 2006. Early penguin fossils, plus mitochondrial genomes, calibrate avian evolution. Molecular Biology and Evolution 23:1144-1155. This was already used in the paper as reference 20.

Under the relationship to other bird orders section. I have some citations that can be added. After this sentence, "On the other hand, different DNA sequence datasets do not agree in detail with each other either." These three papers differ in their exact grouping of penguin sister taxa; additionally they don't agree with the sister grouping of Procellariiformes and Sphenisciformes:

Siegel-Causey, D. 1997. Phylogeny of the Pelecaniformes: molecular systematics of a primative group, Pages 159-171 Avian molecular evolution and systematics, Academic Press, Inc. Academic Press Ltd.

Simon, J., S. Laurent, G. Grolleau, P. Thoraval, D. Soubieux, and D. Rasschaert. 2004. Evolution of preproinsulin gene in birds. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 30:755-766.

Chubb, A. L. 2004. New nuclear evidence for the oldest divergence among neognath birds: The phylogenetic utility of ZENK (i). Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 30:140-151.

Also either under the anatomy and physiology section or the evolution section, I believe there should be a note regarding another hypothesis for a change in plumage color. The initial extinct basal penguin lineages did not share the same plumage coloration as seen in living penguins. There are two hypothesis as to why this occurred. The common hypothesis is that penguins evolved their plumage coloring as a camouflage mechanism against predators. However another hypothesis supposes that the changes in plumage color may have occurred as a response to the hydrodynamic demands of underwater propulsion, which affected melanin packing and therefore plumage coloration. This brief paragraph can be cited with Clarke's article:

Clarke, J. A., D. T. Ksepka, R. Salas-Gismondi, A. J. Altamirano, M. D. Shawkey, L. D'Alba, J. Vinther et al. 2010. Fossil evidence for evolution of the shape and color of penguin feathers. Science (Washington D C) 330:954-957.

Hope these additions will help the page!

Ccevo2011 (talk) 15:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: I replaced the citation needed with the Slack et al. reference, but have some questions on the rest. Can you explain how the three sources are to be used after the "different DNA sequence datasets" sentence? Also, in the last section where you've written about the plumage color, is that a direct quote from the source or is it in your own words? Your own words would be preferred, but if it's a quote, can you clearly define the start and stop points of the quote? Thanks, — Bility (talk) 18:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Note: I've removed the for now, as this seems to be 'ongoing' and being done; if, however, there is a further specific request, please use another. Thanks,  Chzz  ► 05:51, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

November 15, 2011

The DNA sequence references refer to studies that looked at mitochondrial DNA (Seigel), the ZENK gene (Chubb), and the prepoinsulin gene (Simon) to further investigate the phylogenetic placement of penguins with their sister taxa. These are all studies that do NOT agree with the frequently proposed notion (from both molecular and morphologic studies) that Procellariiformes and Spheniscidae are related. The plumage section is my own words. Hope that answered your questions! Ccevo2011 (talk) 15:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Don't have time to to fix it, but...
In this section:

The Auk of the Northern Hemisphere is superficially similar to penguins. They are not related to the penguins at all, but considered by some[who?] to be a product of moderate convergent evolution.[38]

The "who" is David Attenborough, discussing them, says "They look rather like penguins, too". It's either in Frozen Planet or Planet Earth. So, that citation can be fixed. By someone who isn't me. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.252.137.8 (talk) 12:28, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Error
Contrary to what was previously stated, I don't see why french interwiki is fr:Spheniscidae istead of fr:Manchot, the former corresponds to the familiae, not to the actual animal. 81.56.95.241 (talk) 10:04, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

White Head Island in Newfoundland?
This looks like a misinterpretation of the American Heritage Dictionary etymology, "Possibly from Welsh pen gwyn, White Head (name of an island in Newfoundland), great auk : pen, chief, head + gwynn, white." There is no "White Head Island" in Newfoundland, but there is a "Penguin Island" (now known as Funk Island). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.142.211 (talk) 03:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 September 2012

 * Spheniscidae gen. et sp. indet. (Late Oligocene/Early Miocene of Hakataramea, New Zealand) Journal of Wildlife Disease 1988 pp. 166-167

Diorazio (talk) 01:32, 19 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. I don't know what you are asking for. A boat   that can float!   (watch me float!)  14:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Removed para from etymology
I've removed the following from the etymology section, since it wasn't supported by the linked reference (the Century Dictionary at wordnik.com).
 * A third theory states that the word is an alteration of “pen-wing”, with reference to the rudimentary wings of Great Auks. This theory has been criticised for the unexplained nature of the alteration of the word.

If someone can find another RS, feel free to re-add it!

Edit request on 29 August 2013
From In popular culture: "Their striking black-and-white plumage is often likened to White tie suit." I don't think that's correct grammar. Can we change it to "Their striking black-and-white plumage is often likened to a white tie suit." (or maybe "the white tie suit", I'm not entirely sure which is correct)?

--81.232.114.228 (talk) 13:18, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Nici  Vampire  Heart  23:57, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

About Evolution Section
i've been read that Evolution Column of this article was so biased

''The evolutionary history of penguins is well-researched and represents a showcase of evolutionary biogeography; though as penguin bones of any one species vary much in size and few good specimens are known, the alpha taxonomy of many prehistoric forms still leaves much to be desired. Some seminal articles about penguin prehistory have been published since 2005,[17][18][19][20] the evolution of the living genera can be considered resolved by now.''

it doesnt give second Opinion for the objection about Evolution Theory..

so i Proposed to edit this one so it would not just give an unfair edge to those who reject the Evolution — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahendra (talk • contribs) 17:03, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * There are no scientific sources that object to evolution. Evolution is a scientific fact beyond any rational dispute and non-scientific concepts like creationism have no place in a scientific article. If you have reliable sources that argue a specific aspect of penguin evolution, present them. 99.114.177.205 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Galapagos Penguin
This article states that all penguins live south of the equator, yet the Galapagos penguin lives north of the equator. Quoting directly from the article: "Although all penguin species are native to the Southern Hemisphere, they are not found only in cold climates, such as Antarctica. In fact, only a few species of penguin live so far south. Several species are found in the temperate zone, and one species, the Galápagos penguin, lives near the equator." This should be changed to something like: "Although nearly all penguin species are native to the Southern Hemisphere, they are not found only in cold climates, such as Antarctica. In fact, only a few species of penguin live so far south. Several species are found in the temperate zone, and one species, the Galápagos penguin, lives just north of the equator." ~ Lord Marcellus  19:33, 24 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord Marcellus (talk • contribs)
 * double check your map. The location for Galápagos is 0°40′S 90°33′W, which is just south of the equator. Werieth (talk) 19:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * When I look at their range map, and compare it to the equator, part of Isla Isabela is just north of the equator. They live on the the entire west coast of Isla Isabela, and thus a small population lives north of the equator. I used this map to see whether some Galápagos penguins live north of the equator, combined with the range map on the Galápagos penguin article. ~ Lord Marcellus  19:46, 24 June 2014 (UTC)