Talk:Peshmerga/Archive 1

History
Made minor grammatical and spelling edits to various mistakes in the history article, but did not change the content. 50.158.229.206 (talk) 03:43, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Etymology
The origin of the name has become a dispute with some of the people. The origin of the name is clearly Persian and is very evident. There are numerous sources indicating this. It's a good idea to create a section in the article which talks about the origin of the name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheScholar2006 (talk • contribs) 17:59, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Vehicles

 * This sentence is confusing...
 * "During the American-led invasion the Peshmerga captured the rest of the arms of the Iraqi forces, consisting of more than 2000 armoured vehicles (some hundred of them PT-76s and a smaller number of T-55s) and an unknown number of artillery guns."
 * Does this mean that the Peshmerga have 2,000 Armoured Vehicles or is that the number the Iraqi Forces had at the time?
 * Or is it saying they only have 100 PT-76s and some T-55s? Can someone please clarify?
 * --Hibernian 18:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

the peshmerga captured about 2000 armored vehicles no really a lot of pt-76 but several hundreds tanks t-55 or t-54, in kurdistan they said, that they have 700 of them in their inventory, some apcs and anti aircraft armored vehicles with 23 mm anti aircraft and bigger calibres cannons on them and even some 2S1 M-1974 122mm Carnation Self-propelled howitzers and a lot of towed artillery


 * I saw the tanks this summer, and from what i could see they were T-55. They are stationed in two or more compounds outside Sharazur.

Kurdish state?
this doesn't make sense: "Peshmerga forces do make use of female fighters, making it one of only three states in the Middle East that actively uses female soldiers (others being Israel and Iran)."

Since when is Kurdistan a state? Changed it to "nation," but may need to be considered further.


 * I changed it further to 'entity'. This may turn out to be even worse (POV-wise), since neo-nazis, Hamas and Ahmadinejad likes to refer to Israel as the 'zionist entity'. Though, Iran is never referred to as an 'entity' in this POV way so it shouldn't be a problem. Joffeloff 15:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

http://www.zreportage.com/graphics/KurdishWomen/highres/004.jpg

here is a good picture of a female peshmerga


 * The Iraqi constitution recognizes Kurdistan as a region, not a state or entity. (214.13.130.100 (talk) 10:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC))

PKK?
"The PKK forces are currently involved in a dispute with the military forces of Turkey. This conflict has resulted in 37,000 deaths since it started in 1984."

Why is PKK mentioned in the article? It's kind of random just sitting there. Peshmerga is only usually used when referring to the fighters in Northern Iraq, not with the PKK. I'm pretty sure when the PKK entered into the areas where KDP and PUK had influence, it usually resulted in conflict between the PKK and the region's Peshmerga.--MercZ 15:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Peshmerga is a term used by Kurds for their guerrila soldiers, this term is not a political term, so anyone who fights for Kurdistan is considered a Peshmerga wether he/she is fighting with PUK, PDK, PDK-I or the PKK. There is however one criteria for many Kurds to call a guerilla soldier a Peshmerga, that is to fight with Honour - and this could be turned against the PKK (or any other party for that matter), as they have been involved in terrorist actions.

Peshmerga in ancient times
There is proof of that peshmergas or an ancestor of the modern peshmerga was present during ancient times. In The Kurds, a consice handbook prof. Izady writes: "The 1500-year dominance of mesopotamia over the Kurdish highlands (since the fall of the Qutils) was reversed...A crusial element in the succes of this epoch-making event was the Medians' brilliant use of people militias or guerrillas. These are calles Kâra in the Behistun inscription in southern Kurdistan. This is the earliest record of this form of warfare, which since has become the preffered form of defence of Kurdistan up to the present day, in the form of the peshmerga"

He also writes: "A point of interest is the term by which the Kurdish fighters are reffered to in the original text of King Ardashir's battle chronicle, the Kârnâmak. The term Jânspâr, a persian equivalent of the modern Kurdish term for their fighters, i.e., peshmerga, both meaning "self-sacrificer" to the cause."

Picture of Peshmerga "Special Forces"
Why does this Peshmerga have a US flag on his uniform? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.168.215.196 (talk • contribs).


 * The guy with the American flag on his shoulder is an American soldier, but the other three guys are Kurds. --D.Kurdistani 01:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. He has distinctly Kurdish features, and he may have been working with Americans, as an interpreter or as a liaison with the Peshmerga. Also, it may have just been a show of support for the American invasion by a Peshmerga. American flags are proudly displayed by Kurds frequently. The people in Sulayminiyah treated me as if I were a returning king when I visited there, even 3 years after the invasion.


 * How can you tell if he has distinctly Kurdish features, you can’t see his face? --D.Kurdistani 08:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Green berets helping?--Conor Fallon (talk) 02:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

What was the size of the Peshmerga forces during the first Gulf War
You mean what was the size of the Peshmerga forces during the first Gulf War, I don't know that information. But what I can tell you is there current size is between 100,000 - 150,000. --D.Kurdistani 00:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

now is the size higher because they get more money if they are at the army and and lot of teenagers learn it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.150.37.141 (talk) 14:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Need sources for the Israel connection?
While I don't really doubt that Israel would have helped the Kurds, there still needs to be some evidence to back it up. --65.81.26.5 18:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Reformatted article
I've decided to be bold and reformat the History section into more manageable chunks. I have also commented out the headings with no text until such time as someone adds the text, though I am of the impression that most of these headings are unneccessary and disrupt the flow of the article. --Admbws 23:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Misspelling of source
As the author of "Willing to Face Death", the master's thesis that is used throughout this wiki entry, I ask that someone please correct the spelling of peshmerga in the title to "peshmerga", not "peshmarga". I used the spelling as used in David McDowell's "Modern History of the Kurds" for uniformity purposes. I understand the openess of the wiki project and of course do not mind my thesis being used, but please correct the title of my work. Thank you.

192.31.19.50 17:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Female peshmerga
Peshmerga forces do make use of female fighters, making Kurdistan one of only three entities in the Middle East that actively uses female soldiers (others being Israel and Iran).

I guess Turkey is not considered Mideastern? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slntssssn (talk • contribs) 18:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Turkey is actually is Mideast country and wanabee-euro 212.187.1.213 (talk) 15:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

'''Well I think Kurdistan is the only entity using females fighters, other countries might have female soldiers but they are never taken into combat. However we make sue fo female fighters even in comabat. E.g. Kirkuk was captured by a full female battilion during the last iraqi war. Shav4life (talk) 15:17, 5 March 2008 (UTC)'''

According to this source here, NATO Report" "Today, women are assigned only as officers and NCOs in the Turkish Armed Forces and there are no enlisted personnel.". The Turkish military does not actively use women in armed combat, it seems, though they do have them serving in the police. --MercZ (talk) 18:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There are female fighters in Israel in MAGAV, Karakal, artillery and in Combat Engineering Corps, see anti-NBC unit 76 in it. Lizrael (talk) 11:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Kurdish Air Force
Kurdish Iraqi pilots perform an outside check on their plane before taking off at an airfield in the Kurdish town of Arbat, 30 kms east of the northern Iraqi city of Sulaimaniayh, 24 January 2008. Eighteen pilots, four of them women, graduated yesterday at the town's agricultural airfield established by the Kurdish autonomous region government. Kurdish Iraqi pilots fly their planes above an airfield in the Kurdish town of Arbat, 30 kms east of the northern Iraqi city of Sulaimaniayh, 24 January 2008. Eighteen pilots, four of them women, graduated yesterday at the town's agricultural airfield established by the Kurdish autonomous region government. A female Kurdish Iraqi pilot performs an outside check on her team's plane before taking off at an airfield in the Kurdish town of Arbat, 30 kms east of the northern Iraqi city of Sulaimaniayh, 24 January 2008. Eighteen pilots, four of them women, graduated yesterday at the town's agricultural airfield established by the Kurdish autonomous region government. AFP PHOTO/SHWAN MOHAMMED (Photo credit should read SHWAN MOHAMMED/AFP/Getty Images)

Shaky Sources
I just wanted to note that the use of Bob Woodward's Plan of Attack is a highly partisan source that contains more rhetoric than historical facts

Alleged peshmerga killing of Christians in Mosul
This section is now getting so lengthy and detailed, and so far  removed from the subject of the Peshmerga, that it should maybe be split of as a separate article.--Vindheim (talk) 17:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

They're a terrorist group who want North Iraq to be a Kurdish zone only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.99.165.106 (talk) 20:40, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

As it should be!!--108.36.244.16 (talk) 10:56, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Unrelated Citing
Citation 22 has nothing to do with the and instead seems to be a link to a model buying site. Removing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.232.40.102 (talk) 10:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

BM-21 Grad
In the "Current Equipment of the Peshmerga" section, the BM-21 Grad is listed as an IFV. It's a fantastic piece of kit, but I doubt it fits that purpose... Don't know whether it's a misclassification (MRL or SPA) or a confusion on the vehicle - or some weird variant I'm not aware of.

Cheers for the article, only nitpicking/wondering. -- Blaise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.12.214.183 (talk) 13:48, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

What is IFV? MRL or SPA BM-21 Grad in Kurdistan-iraq http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2594/33929610150356334048140.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.34.10.53 (talk) 17:04, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * An IFV is an Infanty Fighting Vehicle which is a vehicle that supports infantry on the ground much like a tank does. I agree with the 129.12. The MB-21 is more of an artillery than an IFV ~ Zirguezi 19:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

A bit old
Maybe the article is a bit old and need some updates regarding troop numbers and the equipments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alan khalil (talk • contribs) 17:38, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Re-formatted
I have re-formatted the whole equipment section to better columns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheDulki123 (talk • contribs) 19:28, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to add pictures
Feel free to add pictures where you feel would be good. I don't know how unfortunatelyand there are copyright issues — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozad655 (talk • contribs) 10:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Utility and transport helicopters
Why are utility and transport helicopters under millitary equipment? They are for civil use and I am not aware of any incident where they were used as part of the peshmerga force. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozad655 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

KS-30 anti-aircraft gun
That anti-aircraft gun (which is more like an artillery piece in this day and age), is extremely uncommon. Its Wikipedia page doesn't mention it having been exported to any country outside of the Warsaw Pact so it is not readily discernible from this wiki where the Peshmerga would be able get a hold of one. In other words you have to have a link, and if there are no pictures it doesn't exist.

270,000 troops?
The actual sources cited say the Peshmerga has 150,000 to 200,000 troops rather than the 270,000 listed. In-fact, I did a google search on "270,000 Peshmerga" and got no results anywhere so I'm not sure what the original editor got it from. In the meantime though I changed it to "150,000-200,000" since that's what the actual sources give. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.84.226.174 (talk) 02:26, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Literally "those who face death"
I'd like to get this changed. In Sorani Kurdish pesh actually means before and merga means death. So "literally" peshmerga means before death and not those who face death.

It may be taken to mean those who are before death, but using the word literally is inaccurate. The problem is that so many articles have now used the phrase "literally translates as those who face death" that it ends up everywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.127.74.162 (talk) 09:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Translation of Peshmurga
According to my source 'pesh' means to stand in front of while merga means death. The title of the article also refers to facing death. (Are Kurdish Soldiers "Facing Death" or "Seeking Death"?) It occurs to me that this can be translated as to face death and 'face death' is a known English expression. I have experience translating between German and English and am familiar in general terms with problems when a word does not have an exact literal translation between one language and another.

Input from experts in the relevant languages (Kurdish and Persian) would be appreciated. Proxima Centauri (talk) 08:14, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't have a source for this but I do speak Sorani and AFAIK it does mean "those who face death". ~ Zirguezi 21:10, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Vehicles
Germany delivered 40 Semi-trailer trucks "Unimog" (not 20), see http://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bwde/!ut/p/c4/NYo9D4JAEET_0S5H40cnodDCAhuEboEN2Qh3ZFkkMf547wpnklfMG2wx1tNbRjIJniZ8YtPLuduh2wcGFr8S24dBlF5Yp3uc--DZEo29SeSoZEFhCWpTMptqNCADNpkrC3fI_nHfU1td63ueH8tb8cBlni8_qo-YzQ!!/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:43:AE05:A801:85BF:691A:866A:EAA1 (talk) 11:52, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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