Talk:Petrićevac

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Vandal B, it is not necessary to pound on Filipović-Majstorović here, he has an article and his description belongs there. Also, it is wrong to justify one crime with another in the last section. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   13:40, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

''Friar Miroslav Filipovi&#263;-Majstorovi&#263; (nickname'fra Satan') originated from the monastery before he went on to join the Croatian fascist Ustaše organization during World War II and commit numerous war crimes over the Serbs in the region between 1941 and 1945. Most civils is killed in Petricevac,Drakulic and Motike, serbian villages in region.''

For example, 'Fra Satan' with his 12 ustashas (imitation of Isus and 12 apostles), from Catholic monastery gone to Serbian basic school nearby, and killed all young students (7-12 years old).

Why is this stated on the article about Petričevac. There are at least two degrees of separation here. The whole section should be moved to Friar Miroslav Filipović-Majstorović article or to the article about the monastary in question and only link should be provided. Only a portion that talks about killings in Petricevac during WWII makes sense to remain. --Dado 01:30, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vandal B, is this like a plan of yours to get banned or something? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   14:20, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are You some natzy protector Joy?


 * What? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;

When someone say Petricevac first asotiation in Serbian people is natzy crimes and Fra Satan. Almost all inhabitians of Petricevac area was killed by Croatian ustasas and German soliders. Fra Satan was was priest and he personaly (tragicaly but in the name of God) killed several hundred Serbs, mostly children, and his favorite weapon was knife for slowly killing. There is tones of books about that.


 * Sure. And this is explained in his article. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;

So if there is two sentences about Fra Satan in Petricevac article its something necessary.


 * But there ARE two sentences about "Fra Satan" in the Petrićevac article already. Saying that the same thing happened in Drakulići and Motike is not directly relevant to this article. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;

Every Your deleting of these facts I see as blessing of natzy crimes. I know that natzy is popular is some circles but not in Wikipedia. Sorry for bad English. Vandal B 30 June 2005 10:02 (UTC)


 * It is not "blessing Nazi crimes", for crying out loud, we're just making the encyclopedia readable. It doesn't help readability to clutter the page with rants about evil men, nor does it make the evil men less evil if we explain their misdeeds on their page rather than everywhere tangentially relevant.


 * And the bit about a "revenge" for "priest's" war crimes in WWII is entirely off base. Two wrongs don't make a right, it's as simple as that. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   30 June 2005 10:24 (UTC)

I still can't see why are you diturbed by two sentences about Fra Satan crimes. And explanation about "revenge": During Bosnian war Petricevac monastery was the only one Catholic church in region that was ruined. Reason is Fra Satan and memories of his crimes. Nobody said that is good but "revenge" is fact. There is dozen Catholic churches in circle of 10 km around Petricevac and all of them were safe all the time. Two wrongs (if you killing can call with that name) are double wrong bat fact is fact. Vandal B 30 June 2005 11:32 (UTC)


 * You're implicating the monastery where he once was with the crimes he committed. That is wrong because he was expelled from the Franciscan order after (and because) he participated in the massacre in those three villages. I have linked the exact documentation about it from his page - see the updated Miroslav Filipović page. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   30 June 2005 15:46 (UTC)


 * Also, the bit about the revenge may seem logical to you because you see a connection, but it's quite illogical for this to be explained like that for two reasons - if they thought it should be destroyed, they could have done it any time between 1945 and 1995 - but they didn't; and the friars in the monastery in 1995 were not guilty of 1942 crimes, so it's baseless to talk of revenge against them. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;

I can agree with you Joy in several things. "Friars in the monastery in 1995 were not guilty of 1942 crimes" - true. "He was expelled from the Franciscan order after (and because) he participated in the massacre" - true. But in colective memory of serbian people in region monastery Petricevac = Fra Satan, and that's reason for damaging of monastery during Bosian war. Why monastery is not destroyed between 1945-1992??? There is not logical reason for destroying monastery and no one normal would do it, but war is crazy time and a lot of bad things are done during of war. One of them is destroying of monastery. Reason for destroying is "revenge". Serbian people didn't (and wouldn't) destroy monastery but some "bad guys" with power during the war. Vandal B 1 July 2005 07:04 (UTC)


 * This is an encyclopedia. A notion of "collective memory" doesn't take precedence over common sense. I'll rephrase it once again, see if you like that one.


 * BTW, you are really offending me by calling my NPOV edits "Nazi marketing", and it's even more disturbing that you can't even spell Nazi properly in that highly slanderous accusation. Kindly cease and desist. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   1 July 2005 11:18 (UTC)


 * I noticed one more bit.
 * For example, 'Fra Satan' with his 12 ustashas (imitation of Isus and 12 apostles), from Catholic monastery gone to Serbian basic school nearby, and killed all young students (7-12 years old).
 * This was apparently also from the Drakulići incident - I've found full quote about it and copied it at Miroslav Filipović. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   1 July 2005 11:24 (UTC)

I can't see why you Joy, like modern Croat, want to hide ustasa's crimes. Ustasa's crimes are not your fault. It is ok if you are shamed about it (hystory of all Balkan nations is good reason for tham to be shamed) but there is no reason for hiding facts. Sorry for calling your edits "Nazi marketing". It seems to me on first sight but I now see that you just want to wash some parts of Crotian history. Vandal B 1 July 2005 12:51 (UTC)


 * Hide crimes? Where exactly do you see me hiding crimes? I'm practically the only remaining person who worked on adding genuine information to the articles about Ustaša, Jasenovac and others on the English Wikipedia, most of the other edits seem to be either junk or copy&paste. Please don't cast these nonsensical accusations any more, they're really cursory, and honestly offensive. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   01:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Now we have two, not so different, versions. I'll try to make small changes in your version and I hope that will be ok for both of us. Vandal B 1 July 2005 12:57 (UTC)


 * It's more acceptable, although I had to polish the English.
 * I still don't see the relevance of fra Satan - that was his nickname after he went to Jasenovac, wasn't it? Nobody seemed to call him like that when he was still in Petrićevac, at least I never saw references to such use. This is the kind of information that warrants clicking through to his article.
 * Who is Ilija Rankić, some local architect/benefactor/builder? This should be explicated. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;