Talk:Philidor Defence

Edit
Is it possible for someone to edit this so that there are paragraphs, or at least list the moves underneath each other, because it is rather difficult to read the moves... even though some books I have read list the moves like they have done in this article, there is a possibility to make it more readable, or am I going to far?cKaL 02:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey CKaL,

I understand what you mean. I couldn't follow it like that myself as a intermediate chess player. It is possible to make it more readable and you are not going to far. I have formated/edit the whole text so people could follow it. I gave it plenty of space. It's not as perfect as I would like but hopefully others would clean it up to make it look better. Now I can follow it better myself :-) Topsaint (talk) 10:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternative moves
Another White response to 3...Nf6

White retains some advantage with the following; (Both Kaufman [2], and Grandmaster Christian Bauer[3]recommends this.)

4.dxe5! Nxe4 5.Qd5! Nc5 6.Bg5

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4.dxe5 (4.Nc3 possible) Nxe4 5.Qd5 Nc5 6.Bg5, and White is better. SunCreator (talk) 22:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

4. Qxd4

 * 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 exd4 4. Qxd4... Well got no theory on it either. After 4...Nc6, white will either give up a tempo by moving the Queen again or give up the Bishop pair by pinning the Knight 5. Bb5 leading to 5...Bd7 6. Bxc6 Nxc6, when White is better but nothing special. SunCreator (talk) 22:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

discussion
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Qd4 looks like the more natural move in the sequence. Both the Queen and the Bishop are attacking the dark squares including g7 and the rook at h8.

5.Qd4 Nc5 6.Bg5

6. ..   Be7 7. exd6 any(BxB) 8. Qxg7 Rf8 9. NxB(if ..7 was BxB) wins the g7 pawn and prevents kingside castling.

6. ..   f6? 7. exf6 gxf6 8. Bxf6 forking the Queen and Rook.

23:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 exd4 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5. Qd4(?!) d5! Now Black has a lovely supported central Knight. Both 6...Nc6 and 6...Bc5 heading for f2, are threats. White has waste a move to get the Queen out the way. Black is at least equal and most likely better. SunCreator (talk) 00:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Somehow I missed 5 .. d5. 207.171.180.101 (talk) 00:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Mystery of the missing move
The section "Alternative move order" gives the following line:

3...Nd7 4.Bc4! 5.dxe5 Nxe5 6.Nxe5 dxe5 7.Qh5!

No Black fourth move is given. What should it be? 91.105.28.81 (talk) 22:09, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 4...Be7 SunCreator (talk) 22:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

removed paragraph
I removed

===The famous Philidor Queen Sacrifice Mate===

1. e4 d5 2.Nf3 d6 3. Bc4 Bg4 4. Nc3 Nbd2?(h6 works, so does g6. Nc6 may work, but does not after 5.Nxe5 Nxe5 -+.) 5.Nxe5! The pinned knight moves!! Bxd1?? 6.Bxf7+! Ke2 7.Nd5#

It was in the wrong place and needs to be written better. Bubba73 (talk), 05:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Bc4 with an exclamation mark???
Who the heck put 4. Bc4 with an exclamation mark? That move isn't even in the whole of MCO 14! My chess analysis engines are putting it as third best move by a long way. Both of the reponses Be7 and Nf6 to it were put with question marks after them when both of those are great moves.

I see this opening all the time in blitz, there is no "giving away a pawn". Black is a pawn up to begin with because of the gambit. Ridiculous. Anonywiki (talk) 14:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Answer: GM Larry Kaufman, although he was only an IM when he wrote the book. I updated the claim with a reference.  BTW, both 4...Be7 and 4...Ngf6 are terrible responses.  Try 4...c6 instead.  Quale (talk) 17:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)