Talk:Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque

Untitled
Merged material in from Jacques Philippe Leclerc - it seemed silly to have two articles on one person. ... and a lot of material from the fr: page, who I assume have the name correct. Shimgray 22:22, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I moved the page to the name under which he is generally known. David.Monniaux 09:52, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hauteclocque and not Hautecloque
the name is Hauteclocque with a "C" Hauteclo"c"que

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Moved. —Centrx→talk • 01:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Philippe Leclerc de Hautecloque → Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque – Reason: correct spelling of surname (See comment above, and French language Wikipedia) Kahuzi 14:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Support. His name is spelled with the extra 'c' (Hauteclocque) in Le Petit Larousse Illustré, 2005 edition. EdJohnston 21:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Nigel Hamilton spells it with the original c in his biography of Montgomery, under whom Leclerc served for a period. --Harlsbottom 00:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support per EdJohnston. --Mathew5000 12:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Image mistake
The French general showed here with (from left to right) US general Bradley, US general Eisenhower and British air chief marshal Tedder is not general Leclerc, but is actually general Koenig, the military governor of Paris. The date may be 29 august 1944, during a parade of American troops on the Champs-Elysées avenue in Paris. --Sbene (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Will someone change this useless picture of general Koenig ?? I guess that for American people, a general with a kepi and a moustache is enough typical of the French to be Leclerc...

"Killing of French POW's"
I have removed the above-named section and retained it here for further reference. There are a number of reasons for doing so. It's incorrect and also shoddily sourced, which is no good for verifiability or credibility.

What this section was perhaps alluding to was an incident involving the 2e D.B. of the French Army in Bad Reichenhall on 8 May 1945 (a very long way from the Rhein-Lahn mentioned in the section). 11 or 12 members of the "Charlemagne" Waffen-Gren. Regt. der SS 58, prisoners of the French were summarily executed. It is NOT known who gave the order. See For Europe: The French Volunteers of the Waffen-SS by Robert Forbes, pp. 480s. The website given as a source is unsourced and could easily be argued to be biased due to its condemnation of left-wing groups. The other source, Whiting's Operation Northwind, a book on the Battle of the Bulge, is cited with no page references.

--Harlsbottom (talk | library) 20:23, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Killing of French POW’s
In May 1945, French forces under Gen. Philippe Leclerc stopped 11 or 12 French prisoners from the SS Charlemagne Regiment in Rhein-Lahn. These POWs, who had volunteered to fight against the Soviet Union, had been hospitalized fighting on the Eastern Front. They had since surrendered and were being moved to a POW area.

Gen. Leclerc asked them why they wore the uniform of the enemy. One prisoner replied, "Why do you wear the uniform of the Americans?". Enraged, Leclerc declared them to be traitors and ordered them to be shot.

Their bodies were left lying by the side of the road. They were buried nearby a few days later by American soldiers

French POWs during WWII
The article states "After the armistice was signed on 22 June, French soldiers were simply allowed to go home, and the Germans were friendly towards de Hauteclocque, especially when they discovered that he spoke fluent German."

What???? French soldiers were NOT simply allowed to go home, and most well educated French people at the time spoke German, nothing out of the way there.

Whoever wrote this never heard of the 1.5 million French POWs! According to the French Wikipedia on Leclerc, he did exactly what my father, also a French officer, did before the armistice in June 1940 became effective - get authorization from his commanding officer to leave and try to go to London, where they would be more useful than in a POW camp.82.120.237.109 (talk) 09:14, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I wrote it and I have heard about the 1.5 million POWs. They were captured before the Armistice became effective. It was hoped that they would soon be released, but only a few were. The majority remained in POW camps for the duration. Leclerc obtained permission from his commanding officer to make his way back to French lines and rejoin the fight, which he did, not to go to London. From memory, he was listed as a deserter. Hawkeye7 (talk) 10:17, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for prompt answer. You are right, in May 1940, it still made sense for Leclerc to rejoin the French lines rather than go to London. But after the armistice, on June 25, French soldiers had to (military law) let themselves be made prisoner and sent East.82.120.237.109 (talk) 18:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Self-Appointed Colonel
Am currently re-reading Jean Lacouture's classic life of Charles de Gaulle. It states that during his attack on Cameroon in August 1940, Leclerc promoted himself to Colonel in order to wield more weight with the Vichy defenders and the natives. He apologised for this in a cable to de Gaulle. A glance at the table of promotions at the bottom of the article says that he jumped from major (a rank he was given in late July, prior to leaving for Africa) to full colonel on 27 August. 27 August was the date Cameroons came over to the Free French (Chad 26 August, French Congo 28 August). Maybe it was retrospectively approved to that date. He then became an acting brigadier-general later in autumn of 1940.Paulturtle (talk) 00:16, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Moore says: "LeClerc and Boislambert promoted themselves, LeClerc to colonel and Boislambert from captain to commandant. Re-sewing their gallons, there was just enough tape to give LeClerc five bars on each cuff and only one complete sleeve for Boislambert." The memorial says that LeClerc was promoted to lieutenant colonel on 27 August 1940; but it's clear from the source that he wore a colonel's stripes. If you have a page number in Lacouture, we can add it to the article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:48, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Will do shortly (I've noted the relevant chapters - I am writing up de Gaulle's biog in comprehensive detail at the moment and have got up to July 1940 so far). A French lieutenant colonel and colonel both wear five stripes - alternating silver and gold for a lieutenant colonel and of the same colour for a full colonel. Maybe he wasn't too bothered when sewing strips of cloth onto a tropical uniform and it was retrospectively approved as a lieutenant colonel, but that's just a guess.Paulturtle (talk) 02:11, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Commanding three battalions?
Was it normal for a captain to command three battalions in France in 1940? I'd think it odd for him to command one at that rank. There's no reference given. CsikosLo (talk) 18:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

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