Talk:Pittsburgh railroad strike of 1877

Physical setting
, May as well start talking here. Hard to follow conversation via hidden markup and edit summaries.

Yes, a description of the physical setting would be helpful. McCabe often mentions vague geography like "the hill". I assume he is referring to middle hill. Unfortunately there are no topographical maps of the city on Wikimedia. The closest map I can find time-wise is from It isn't topographical, but it does show the railways, and I wonder if some image editing might not be able to highlight areas like the railway yards, maybe an approximation of middle hill, maybe 22nd street as it is a reference point for the extent of the fire on the morning of the 22nd. Timothy Joseph Wood 12:52, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, if you can find anything, McCabe constantly uses Millvale Station as a reference point. So far I haven't found anything to indicated exactly where that was. Timothy Joseph Wood  14:08, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, was just trying to jot down some ideas as I saw them; will use this page. This 1902 image shows the railyards on the south side of the Allegheny (to the right) and in relation to the rivers and downtown. Thaddeus M. Fowler - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 1902.jpg.]] They had been developed there as it was flatland and relatively empty as railroads were constructed into the city. Worker housing was developed south of the yards. Can't remember the name of the hill behind this area; the Duquesne Incline is located to the west I think.Parkwells (talk) 14:24, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure the hill is Middle Hill. Also I am dropping public domain images as I find them to the Wikimedia category for this article. Just FYI. Timothy Joseph Wood  14:28, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also you can use the |200px| modifier in the File: syntax to resize images. So for example, adding |100px| will make the image quite small. Generally widths greater than |550px| shouldn't be used as they muck up users on mobile devices. Again, just FYI. Timothy Joseph Wood  14:33, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for advice. Found the image at the Pittsburgh article and just copied it.Parkwells (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also keep in mind that if you find a source that were published prior to 1923 and the author died prior to 1946, then the work is in the public domain and we can use any illustrations. Since this topic is so old, there seems to be a lot of sources that meet this criteria. Timothy Joseph Wood  15:07, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See the Harper's Weekly Aug. 11 article (External links) - several powerful illustrations, from which batch the two in the article come.Parkwells (talk) 02:11, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Damages, deaths, whatever that section ends up being called
I inserted a note there. Feel free to do similarly. No need to hide text right now. The construction template at the top of the page gives some leeway in mucking up the article in the interest of improving it. Timothy Joseph Wood 15:43, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks as if it will be difficult to come up with accurate numbers for casualties unless a later historian was successful with records. Most of the dead seem to be strikers and families (the first 20 killed were described as men, women and children, including 3 children). Three National Guard were described as killed on their way out of the city, but much is undifferentiated.Parkwells (talk) 18:56, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * McCabe says at least three of the roundhouse soldiers were killed. I'm getting a bit tired of him as a sources and ready to move on to another. But he's been good. Also I got probably ten pics from it on commons. Timothy Joseph Wood  10:40, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Claremont
See List of Pittsburgh neighborhoods. Was Claremont renamed? Timothy Joseph Wood 15:59, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to find Claremont at all; the link that looked like a neighborhood was dead; I've found a reference to a Clermont Crag in the mountains. So who knows what McCabe was referring to. Harper's Weekly said the troops removed to Sharpsburg (which is about 5 miles NE of Pittsburgh north of the Allegheny River. This sounds right - makes more sense than Sharpsburg, MD.)Parkwells (talk) 19:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have posted on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pittsburgh. Maybe someone there can point us in the right direction. Timothy Joseph Wood  19:22, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See response here. Timothy Joseph Wood  11:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

(Note to self for later)
McCabe blames the people of Pittsburgh for the riot. Pages 109-111. Timothy Joseph Wood 16:50, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If you check the Harper's Weekly article (8/11/1877) in External links, you will see that McCabe copied sections verbatim in his account - about the crowd and looting. (Did he cite them?) Maybe we should quote it directly rather than through him. Parkwells (talk) 18:05, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * May not be a bad idea. My original plan was to do an examination/exposition/cause/whatever section similar to that on Scration (although admittedly, the one over there could probably use some work). McCabe is pretty heavily (overwhelmingly) relied upon right now, but that was really just to give structure for adding other sources.  Timothy Joseph Wood  18:14, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Another

Possible alternative names

 * Railroad riot instead of railway (McCabe, p. 121) Timothy Joseph Wood  12:20, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Great railroad strike

Sheriff
According to this, apparently the sheriff was killed at some point. Need a more specific source. Timothy Joseph Wood 19:14, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

No photos of the monuments in Pittsburgh
Under the heading Commemorations, the article mentions several monuments to the strike. However, there are no photos of any of these. I hope somebody in Pittsburgh can take some photos and upload them for use in this article. Pete unseth (talk) 19:12, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey Pete unseth. That gets tricky, because the US does not have freedom of panorama that covers things like monuments and statues. For example, for the image of the historical marker on Baltimore railroad strike of 1877, I actually had to email the Maryland Historical Society and get their permission to use it.  G M G  talk   19:23, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't believe such laws were meant to prevent photos of such objects that are not artistic but are meant to be seen, meant to be a source of learning for all.Pete unseth (talk) 17:53, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Source check via script
Skrabec, Quentin (2012). The 100 Most Significant Events in American Business: An Encyclopedia. ABC-CLIO. p. 81. Inconsistent Location (6 with; 12 without); Missing ISBN;
 * Inconsistent use of Location parameter (6 with; 17 without);
 * Lloyd, John P. (2009). "The Strike Wave of 1877". Missing ISBN;
 * Report of the Committee Appointed to Investigate the Railroad Riots in July, 1877, Harrisburg:Missing Identifier/control number, e.g. OCLC;
 * Dacus, Joseph (1877). Pub. too early for ISBN, perhaps needs orig-year; Missing Identifier/control number, e.g. OCLC;
 * McCabe, James Dabney; Martin, Edward Winslow.  Missing Publisher; Missing Year/Date;
 * Klein, Phillip; Hoogenboom, Ari (1980). Missing ISBN;
 * Commons, John; Saposs, David; Sumner, Helen; Mittelman, Edward; Henry, Hoagland; John, Andrews; Selig, Perlman; Don, Lescohier; Elizabeth, Brandeis; Philip, Taft (1921). History of Labour in the United States: Nationalisation (1860–1877) Upheaval and reorganisation (since 1876). Missing Identifier/control number, e.g. OCLC; Also suggest using display-authors set to 3;
 * Quinn, David (July 15, 2014). Missing ISBN;
 * Beik, Mildred (2005).  Missing ISBN;
 * Couvares, Francis (30 June 1984).  Missing ISBN;
 * Currarino, Rosanne (12 January 2011). Missing ISBN;
 * Archdeacon, Thomas (1 March 1984). Becoming American. Missing ISBN;
 * Locomotive Engineers Journal, Volume 54. Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. 1920. p. 1920. Inconsistent Location (6 with; 17 without); Missing Identifier/control number, e.g. doi or OCLC; the year and the page number are the same? that's a coincidence. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 23:05, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Fixed the location and the ISBN issues. As the alternate identifiers for publications too old for ISBN, I really have no idea whatsoever how to go about finding them.  G M G  talk   04:30, 9 February 2018 (UTC)