Talk:Pleaching

Images
A picture of something that was pleached would be helpful. It would make it a little easier to see what pleaching is. Also, the lower portion of text should be incorperated into the other text and reworded. Plantboy1 23:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC) (Nice drawing, can we get a picture to go with it?)

speculation without references
I removed the two paragraphs at the end because they appear to be presenting speculation without references. Wordage such as "it is pleasant to imagine how the pleaching of inosculate trees might have been employed" And "planks could have been thrown across where huts were built".... is not factual but speculative. 66.82.9.107 20:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)Reames

Pleaching = braiding, grafting or both?
Some links from pleaching appear to define it as no more than training living branches by braiding them together to form structures. But I had thought that it would need an element of grafting so that the trees are literally bonded together at “wound sites”. Can anyone clafify this? Also, it is not always clear if the grafting is self-grafting or from tree to tree. Do trees have any kind of immune system at all that might reject some grafts? And do such grafts mean that the root system has to work harder to support extra biomass being added every time a graft is made? Myles325a (talk) 01:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes. Bonded together at purpose-made wound sites, as with the incredible hornbeam tunnels recreated at Het Loo. --Wetman (talk) 02:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * When a graft takes, the roots do not have to work any harder as the upper biomass feeds the roots through the phloem phloem is the living tissue that carries organic nutrients (known as photosynthate), particularly sucrose, a sugar, from the leaves to all parts of the plant where needed, while the roots return "food" by way of the xylem cells it is responsible for the transport of water and soluble mineral nutrients from the root.

Pleaching is the creation of raised hedges. Techniques to created these hedges involve braiding branches from tree to tree, these branches over time often graft together with no help. One pleaching technique is to make an approach graft. Simply removing the bark (creating a wound)and binding the branches together just speeds up the grafting process. Reames (talk) 17:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd like to see a really good scholarly reference for that definition: "Pleaching is the creation of raised hedges." or even the one in the article "Pleaching is the art of training trees into a raised hedge or to form a quincunx." Both I am dubious about.  The lead is unreferenced.  To pleach is to plait.  Outcome of this plaiting or pleaching might be a hedge, might be raised, but might be a number of other things too.  Please see (I meant Grafting) also for clues.  I'm tagging the lead for references and I'll look for some.  I also want to propose that if an excellent reference can be found for either statement, this article be merged with tree shaping as a form of tree shaping. Duff (talk) 14:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * scratch that.
 * You are right to doubt. Pleaching is simply the technique used. How's the opening now?--Wetman (talk) 18:37, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Better, but I think we are still not at what the technique is in that statement.


 * This is from Fab Tree Hab: "A methodology new to buildings yet ancient to gardening is introduced in this design - pleaching. Pleaching is a method of weaving together tree branches to form living archways, lattices, or screens." So here it is a method of weaving together branches.  That's not the final word, though...they are going to pleach into 3-dimensional forms.
 * This is from arborsculpture (now being called tree shaping for reasons too long to list): "Pleaching  is similar to espalier, in that it trains rows of trees to grow in the vertical.[6]:11-12 Pleaching is trees trained into raised hedge with flat planes and hedges,[65]  and, therefore, is inaccurate way to describe tree shaping.[3]:24"
 * and the recently deleted:

"Pleaching is inosculation, when it is aided or initiated by humans.[7]  In an early, labor-intensive, practical use of pleaching, woody plants are installed in the ground in lines, then shaped by trimming  to form a flat plane above ground level. These installations are often designed and planted in parallel hedgerow or quincunx  patterns. Branches are then woven or joined together at the design height. Their bark is wounded at the joins and bound together until they grow together, forming a raised grid upon which planks can be placed to support structures, perhaps above a floodplain.[7]  In late medieval gardens through the 18th century, pleached allées were common in European gardens. The ornamental craft of topiary, the agricultural craft of espalier, and the arboricultural craft of arborsculpture all developed from the utilitarian practice of pleaching."
 * The reference for the above text was by Mark Primack...a really good article. Also see PLEACHING Living Walls: The Grown Environment @


 * This is from bosquet (a new one on me): "Clipped outer faces of the trees may be pleached. -weaved also?
 * interesting that the word pleach does not occur on the page at hedge (barrier)
 * however here at hedge laying: "As with many things, the theory behind laying a hedge is easy; the practice is much harder - requiring skill and experience. The aim is to reduce the thickness of the upright stems of the hedgerow trees by cutting away the wood on one side of the stem and in line with the course of the hedge. This being done, each remaining stem is then laid down towards the horizontal, along the length of the hedge[1]. A stem which has been (or is to be) laid down in this manner is known as a "pleacher". A section of bark and some sapwood  must be left connecting a pleacher to its roots in order to keep the pleacher alive - knowing how much is one part of the art of hedgelaying. It is also essential that pleachers are not laid down completely horizontal as some upward slant is required to ensure the sap will still rise properly through the plant - judging and achieving the required degree of upward slant is again a matter of skill.  Smaller shoots branching off the pleachers and upright stems too small to be used as pleachers are known as "brash" or "brush" and in most styles of laying the brash will be partly removed and partly woven between the pleachers to add cohesiveness to the finished hedge." Aha...photos of laid hedges too, but not of the actual splitting technique; also a style for every location apparently.

As far as hedge layers are concerned, pleaching involves the act of splitting the branch, as well as subsequently weaving it into the hedge. The 'splitting technique' can be seen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ6rSb6VX30.


 * there's also plashing, an orphan that belongs merged here: it's an archaic variant of the word pleaching, and it has this gem: "The stems of the existing hedging plants are split through the centre, bent over and interwoven to create a living fence. The plants rapidly regrow, forming a dense barrier along the entire length of the plashing."
 * This is clearly the same craft, and not at all what I have understood pleach to mean. Do the pleachers inosculate or simply form reaction wood Hmmm.  Thoughts? Here's a source search box.Duff (talk) 02:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Ref. The Complete Guide to Pruning and Training Plants, Joyce and Brickell, 1992, Simon and Schuster. Chapter on Hedges subsection Pleaching, "...a line of trees, grown on clear stems and then shaped from a uniform height to present a flat surface. Pleaching is the technique used to create this effect"  further down in the text it says.. "The terms "pleaching" and "plashing" are both used to describe the technique of weaving plants together, yet the latter is now used to describe the interweaving in laid hedge."  The book describes weaving and pruning but not even a nod to inosculation, let alone grafting. I'm thinking inosculation is simply a possible outcome of weaving branches, a byproduct, not a goal. Slowart (talk) 16:28, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Pleaching seems to have two definitions:-
 * One as a technique of Hedge laying. I have a book titled The forgotten arts quote "For a fancy job you save any stems cut out of the hedge, clean off the side growth and use them as stakes to support the laid stems until they grow into place. You drive them in every yard or so, intertwining them with the laid stems, The stakes should be driven down into the hedge so cattle do not use them as rubbing posts and work them loose. Lastly for a very fancy job, you pleach the stakes with ethers. That is you weave thin whippy stems, such as hazel rods, into the tops of stakes so as to make a continuous strip of basketry along the hedge." The book states the most common hedges are white and blackthorn. Having gone to the Hedge laying article there are similar images there, just like the book showing woven strips within the hedges supported by the stakes. It is easy to see the strips are woven of dead wood. Blackash   have a chat 11:15, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What does that reference say specifically, right before that, about the laying of the pleachers of the hedge. Have you got a link to that text online? perhaps a full ref? Duff (talk) 03:57, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * A more modern use of the word seems to be dictionary term I also found this reference and it seems to be a good one. Tree Torture The introductory paragraph sums up the modern use of pleaching well, quote "Pleaching" is the weaving together of the branches of a row of trees. Combined with formal trimming, it produces a hedge with an intricate branch structure on a freestanding row of clear trunks."
 * Pleaching seems to have started out as a weaving/braiding process of hedge laying and has evolved into a weaving/braiding of tree branches with clear trunks to form a hedge. Or it maybe even be used for both process still. Blackash   have a chat 11:15, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The introductory paragraph of the above cited article contains a dictionary definition: "pleach, v.t. 1. to plash or interweave (growing branches, vines etc.), as for a hedge or arbour (Macquarie Dictionary) [ME pleche (n), var. of PLASH]"  This is the def for the verb 'to pleach', and doesn't do full justice to the actual practice of pleaching, as cited at various points above, but useful.
 * It is all the same technique though, practiced over time on a wide variety of woody plants and plant forms, to manifest a wide variety of structural designs. It is clearly an example of living sculpture as well as a specific form of arborsculpture.  I think the practice itself is so interesting that it really needs a clear, concise description of what the practice of pleaching IS and also the ways it has evolved and the types of structures that are so far known to be possible. Is anybody besides FabTreeHab out on the bleeding edge of plashing?Duff (talk) 10:51, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The actual dictionary reference provided at dictionary term yielded roots in the Latin word plectere (buffet, beat; punish; plait, twine) and the Late Latin word plicare (to fold; fold, bend, flex; multiply by X , X-tuple; add together), both derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *plek-. That lends an interesting sense to the topic, but still doesn't get quite at what it is, this woody plant punishing thing. ;)
 * Here is a somewhat detailed description, with a few photos of the work in progress, at Withy Brook in Belmont Rural in Herefordshire UK; can't use the photos of course, but a decent cite-news reference perhaps: .  Also, [Google images on pleaching http://www.google.com/images?q=pleaching&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US382&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=UFAMTL2jL6PEMcDE7egB&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDgQsAQwAw] yields a very interesting array of photos, lots of them are of what I would consider arborsculpture (and some people would consider tree shaping). That says that at least some photo titlers and taggers consider arborsculpture/tree shaping to be pleaching, or at least a form of it.  Perhaps it is a specialized form of pleaching, which is something I will try to remember to bring up on the talk page at arborsculpture. Duff (talk) 06:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Another reference, The Pruning Book by Lee Reich 1999 Taunton Press ISBN 9781561583164 240 pages @ page 227 in the book's glossary, "Pleaching: informally weaving the branches of trees together to form a living wall or roof" Duff (talk) 19:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Hampton Court
I imagine the recreated (or reguessed?) lime walk, closing overhead, in the restored Privy Garden at Hampton Court Palace, begun c 1986, is pleached, but I can't nail a reference. Johnbod (talk) 10:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Topiary image
This is topiary,the trees are not touching they are merely clipped. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ?oygul (talk • contribs) 14:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

'Tree shaping' argument here.
I strongly suggest that editors do not continue the arguments on Tree shaping here and that they refrain from editing on the basis that this article might be merged with Tree shaping. There is no consensus for that. In my opinion the Arbcom bans on Blackash and Slowart apply here. Martin Hogbin (talk) 09:21, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree, no consensus for merging the two. Also, please note that those discussions above, to which you may be referring, took place over a year ago.   d u f f   13:29, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Axel Erlandsons trees are commonly referred to as pleaching there are plenty of refs.?oygul (talk) 13:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * One of the techniques used in Axel Erlandsons trees is referred to as pleaching but these are not typical examples of the process. Please let us keep the Tree shaping argument out of this article. Martin Hogbin (talk) 17:57, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Blackash has described pleaching as, 'Pleaching seems to have started out as a weaving/braiding process of hedge laying and has evolved into a weaving/braiding of tree branches with clear trunks to form a hedge. Or it maybe even be used for both process still' (my bold). Your picture was nothing like a hedge. Martin Hogbin (talk) 22:31, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hiya, popping in as an admin. I have no opinion on the "Pleaching" term nor the prose content of the article, but was curious as to why this source was removed from the article? It appears to use the Pleaching term, so was it removed because the usage was atypical as compared to other sources, per WP:UNDUE?  Or are there concerns that the source is unreliable, per WP:RS? Thanks, --Elonka 16:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I removed the image because it was not typical result of pleaching as described in the article, thus it was giving WP:UNDUE weight to a specialist usage of this technique. If you look through the article, you will see that very little in it that relates to the image that I removed. Martin Hogbin (talk) 17:58, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not asking about the removal of the image, I'm asking about the removal of the source? If a source is reliable, it should usually be left in the article.  The information from that source can of course be modified, but in general, the more sources, the better! --Elonka 18:38, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I understood the source was in support of the image. If we do not have the image we do not need a source, or is it referred to elsewhere? Martin Hogbin (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

thumb|right|The "Basket Tree" pleached by Axel Erlandson
 * Martin there are lots of refs for Axel Erlandson and others using pleaching technique and for shaped trees being call "Pleached trees", "Living examples of pleached structures include the red alder bench by Richard Reames and sycamore tower by Axel Erlandson" etc. Link There should be some representation of the content from these refs. ?oygul (talk) 16:09, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ?oygul, you quite rightly removed another image from this article because it did not show what is described in this article. Your proposed image also does not show what is described in this article.  It would be very useful if you could try to find some images showing the process that this article describes. Martin Hogbin (talk) 19:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Martin, I found some good images in the commons and I will start adding them soon. I found a photo that mirrors the drawing at the top of the page. ?oygul (talk) 13:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Pleaching
?oygul you asked about my pleaching refs. I'm just letting you know I haven't forgotten, but it will be next month before I start with the refs I have. Blackash  have a chat 23:31, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Blackash thank you for helping, do you have any refs for Dan Ladd I think he calls his tree shaping technique pleaching is that right? Where as Axel Erlandson never referred to his trees as pleached but magazines referred to his trees as being pleached this is my understanding from what I've read. ?oygul (talk) 12:42, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I beleve that Dan has from time to time used pleaching but don't know of any RS that use it for his work. Axel used the world's strangest trees and then circus trees as his name for his work. There are some RS for pleaching being used with is his trees. Blackash   have a chat 03:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

3D Pleaching
I believe there are plenty of refs to create a small subsection about pleaching being used in it's various artistic forms. I would suggest artistic pleaching or pleaching in art as the header. I'm going to copy and paste the refs here, and work on the content here. So it can be fairly tidy before it goes into the main article. ?oygul (talk) 14:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Artistic Pleaching The word pleach has been used to describe the art form of tree shaping or one of the techniques of tree shaping. Pleaching describes the weaving of branches into houses furniture ladders and many other 3 D art forms. Examples of living pleached structures include Richard Reames red alder bench, Axel Erlandsons sycamore tower and the Fab Tree Hab are living examples of pleaching. ="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by ?oygul (talk • contribs) 13:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I like the fact you have kept this section for the article short. I have a few suggested changes to your text. How about

The word pleach has been used to describe the art form of tree shaping or one of the techniques of tree shaping. Pleaching describes the weaving of branches into houses, furniture ladders and many other 3D art forms. Examples of living pleached structures include Richard Reames's red alder bench and Axel Erlandson's sycamore tower. There are also conceptual ideas like the Fab Tree Hab.
 * For the heading I like your suggestion of "Pleaching in art"

Blackash  have a chat 02:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Just found a ref that talks about the word pleaching and Axel as the one to have most developed it. Title MONEY DOES

GROW ON TREES The Complete Guide to Starting Your Own Profitable Tree Farm Includes Production, Maintenance and Marketing. Will try and get back here tomorrow and add some text and this ref. Blackash  have a chat 14:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have looked, and I can't find it, when was it published and by whom. Is it available to reed on line? ?oygul (talk) 14:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Published 2000 The writer is Glen A. Mentgen. ISBN: 1-929709-03-X  Blackash   have a chat 13:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

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