Talk:Pope Pius XII and the raid on the Roman ghetto

Michael Phayer
Although I find this article to be interesting, I'm uncomfortable with the fact that there is only one main source, the writings of Michael Phayer. While Phayer is probably a well-documented and intelligent writer, he seems to have a grudge against Pius XII, in the same way that John Cornwell does. I'm also a bit disappointed that various historians affiliated with the Jewish community, such as Friedlander, Poliakov, Zuccotti and others, automatically get their writings to be considered objective and historical, with rave reviews in mainstream media such as the New York Times, while at the same time various non-Jewish historians are rapidly discredited simply for having tried to paint a less-than-completely-bleak picture of Pius XII. ADM (talk) 21:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have more sources to add. Phayer is merely the most recent and has access to some sources that others do not. He's also a tenured professor of history publishing in a university press, so your opinions about him are just that. Savidan 22:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This article is typical of Wiki's bias in certain matters. Savidan's peremptory response is also a typically wiki response; never open to debate. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/pope-pius-xii-saved-thousands-of-jews-1.300589. Basing an article off one source is just stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.231.195.249 (talk) 05:16, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The page is still editable. Feel free to add other sources. Savidan 19:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Martin Gilbert and Pius XII's role
British historian Martin Gilbert writes:

"Pope Pius XII had personally ordered the Vatican Clergy to open sanctuaries of Vatican City to all 'non aryans' in need of refuge. By the morning of October 16, a total of 477 Jews had been given shelter in the Vatican and its enclaves, while another 4238 had been given sanctuary in the many monasteries and convents in Rome."

(The Holocaust: A History of the Jews of Europe During the Second World War, p. 623).--Domics (talk) 12:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You are free to add Mr. Gilbert's opinion, but it appears he does not cite his sources, and thus his opinion is just that. Savidan 13:18, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

new documents from Rome
From a 1943's diary from the House “Villa Lante” in Rome written by a nun: ''"We knew that the Holy Father had opened the doors of the Vatican to refugees, especially Jews, to save them from the racial persecution."

"She went with Sr Platania to the Secretariat of State where Mons. Montini asked her, in the name of the Holy Father, to house three families that risked, like many others, being taken by the Germans. "

"There were already 15 people housed in Betania and the Rev. Mother tried to find other secure accommodation in order to grant the desire of the Holy Father who deigned to trust her."''

"interestingly enough the chronological events coincide with the Vatican directive of 25 October 1943, revealed by the current Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in which: “it gave instructions to house Jews persecuted by the Nazis in all religious institutes, to open the institutes and also the catacombs”. In fact, this document seems to have been prepared at least by 12 October 1943, as the religious of the Sacred Heart wrote in the “Villa Lante” diary: “Special temporary powers have been granted by the Holy See. In reality, many Mothers Superior already knew this. The Vatican has made it known that a document was ready, declaring that our Mother House was recognized as belonging to the Holy See. No request was made, but this protection will be very welcome. This notice can be posted in the hall of the house”."

To avoid the danger of sudden requisitions by the Nazis or Fascists of the convents, monasteries and Institutes where the Jews were hidden, the Holy See delivered the notice written in German and Italian, to be affixed to the main doors of all of the properties, declaring that this building was directly dependent on Vatican City and that therefore, any search or requisition was forbidden. In this Journal the sisters noted: “The document sent by the Holy See has been distributed to all of the pontifical, religious Mother Houses. This will be a safeguard, even though the arrival of the Gestapo in Rome is not reassuring. The searches seem to be intensifying. Villa Lante has received this document” from the parish." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.40.154.115 (talk) 08:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Moved from Pope Pius XII
Perhaps this can be incorporated in this article. Savidan 17:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

The Vatican Secretary of State, Tarcisio Bertone, stated in 2007 that Pope Pius XII had signed a circular letter dated 25 October 1943, telling all religious institutes to open their doors to take in Jewish refugees. http://www.nostreradici.it/PioXII-Bertone.htm

Salesian Sister Grazia Loparco, professor of Church history at the Faculty of Educational Sciences Auxilium in Rome and vice president of an Italian cultural association that coordinates the documentation of religious history, is carrying out research on Jews sheltered in the religious houses of Rome between the fall of 1943 and June 1944. In an interview with ZENIT she recounted how orders from the Pope were transmitted orally, not written, to the various religious houses in Rome, to hide the Jews. http://www.zenit.org/article-12040?l=english.