Talk:Porter Goss

biased and partisan
this article is biased and partisan, please rewrite it in an unbiased way, serving the truth. Haagsrudent 16:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

If that is your opinion, please explain exactly how you think the article is biased. ---Dagme (talk) 01:04, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Cut from article

 * also featured prominently in the Michael Moore film Fahrenheit 9/11 as a supporter

Washington Times said:
 * President Bush today nominated Rep. Porter Goss of Florida to head the CIA amid terror and tumult, saying the former undercover operative "knows the CIA inside and out" and can bolster its spy network. "He is well prepared for this mission," the president said of Goss, chairman of the House intelligence committee who was an Army intelligence operative before joining the CIA the 1960s. "He's the right man to lead and support the agency at this critical moment in our nation's history."

Oh, and would someone please check the caption on his picture? That's not really Kevin Costner, is it?

move
Should I move the article to the current redirect title Porter Goss? Everyking 10:23, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * No, Porter J. Goss is good.


 * Well, I get almost 2500 hits on Google news for "Porter Goss" and a mere 189 for "Porter J. Goss". Everyking 17:28, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The fact that one is more widely used doesn't necessarily mean it's a better title for an article. I'd leave it Porter J. Goss. — ceejayoz talk  23:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

more Cut from article

 * According to McGovern, Goss gave
 * clear priority to providing political protection for the president. Goss acquiesced when the White House and CIA refused to allow the joint committee to report out any information on what President Bush had been told before 9/11 ostensibly because it was classified. As a result, completely absent from the committee's report was any mention of the President's Daily Brief of Aug. 6, 2001.

Reading the balance of the article from which this is taken, this is not an NPOV source and, in my opinion, should not have its opinion included in this encyclopedic article. I am open to debate on the subject, but will fiercely stand by my removal on the grounds of maintaining Wikipedia's NPOV. Skyler 13:20, Aug 11, 2004 (UTC)

I think that this quote: "In an interview on March 3, 2004 Goss described himself as 'Not qualified' for a job within the CIA. (See below)" is not NPOV as it takes the whole statement out of context and it is misleading. Cordell Walker 06:34, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I don't think any fierceness is necessary :) You're doing a good job.

Writing political entries and remembering this is an encyclopedia.
When writing political entries, I think it is important to remember that not everyone reading them (especially when they are listed on the main page) is going to be familiar with the American political system. Hence, I am reformatting much of the article.

Also, it is important to remember that this is an encyclopedia, meant to last the test of time. Therefore, it is appropriate to write in the past tense.

I am not trying to chastise anyone and I hope this is not taken in that way. I am just adding a helpful reminder. Skyler 12:55, Aug 11, 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the work. I was being lazy and reusing text from dKosopedia, which has a more partisan tone. If you compare the two, you can see I actually did a fair amount of Wikipedifying the tone from that. --The Cunctator 17:14, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Linking to people's e-mail addresses
Why was there a link purporting to be to his e-mail address, and who added that link? Something tells me it was either a bad joke or another entry for Congressional Staffer Edits... Hooker Watergate:

Watergate Hooker Scandal?
There is discussion that the real reason for his exit is that he MAY be caught up in the Duke Cunningham Watergate Hooker scandal. the preceding unsigned comment was left by User:2006 24.20.248.75 07:47, 6 May (UTC)


 * Surprised the controversy, aka hookergate or fornigate, isn't mentioned in the article yet. Ombudsman 13:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually it IS mentioned in the article already, with external references (since evening of may 5). Read closer. It's not primarily a "hooker scandal", its a defense contracting corruption scandal. I don't think "hookergate" and  "fornigate" are common terms in circulation and in any case, this emphasizes minor details which distract from the real reason for the scandal Bwithh 14:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems to be gone now. No mentions of Watergate or prostitution anywhere in the article. Which seems odd. - Alltat (talk) 10:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Weekly Standard stuff?
I believe this entry is confusing. First it says WS speculates that Goss was fired over a turf war with Negroponte. Then it says they believe he was forced out for "other reasons." Then there is a long quotation part of which is more about Negroponte than Goss. I don't want to delete valid information, but I am not sure all of this is relevant or useful here.--csloat 19:29, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Undercover operations in Mexico
{insert after "some very interesting moments in the Florida Straits":} A photograph taken January 22, 1962 in Mexico City appears to show Goss at a table with CIA gun-runner and drug-runner Barry Seal and other members of the CIA's assassination squad named "Operation 40." {link to source:} http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html, http://www.madcowprod.com/new_page_8.htm
 * Note that user TDC seems engaged in partisan POV attacks on all pages concerning US-Cuban relations c.1959-1964, including this photograph. Note that s/he has engaged in numberous Reversion wars, and has already been limited to one revision per day.  See User talk:TDC, with a summary at the end.
 * The burden of proof lies with you to WP:CITE a source that verifies what this photo implies. We have no indication, other thanyor word that this photo is what it claims to be. As such, it goes. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 02:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * http://www.madcowprod.com, is not a valid source. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 17:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The allegation is fodder for conspiracy theorists. Daniel Hopsicker in Mad Cow Morning News asserted that he had a photo of Goss with other members of Operation 40. As early as 2004, John Simkin reports the claim and publishes it in Spartacus Educational. Don Bohning in a 2008 Washington Decoded article states that he calls Goss who vehemently denies that he is in the photo. Simkin replies in the comment section of that article that the origin for that claim is not him but Hopsicker. Six years later in August 2014 — (perhaps after this was discussed in a discussion on the Fringe Theories Noticeboard — Simkin finally updates his article to include what he knew in 2008 (i.e. that Goss denied the allegation). Given that there are no reliable sources stating that Goss was ever a member of Operation 40 and that there is a source quoting Goss as denying it, I have removed that material from the article. Location (talk) 19:13, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

300 years
Under: "Resignation Controversy" " ...noting that employees with a combined 300 years of experience have left or been pushed out." This "quote" seems to mean nothing, as 1) I cannot seem to find it mentioned in the source and 2) If 3600 people who had each been working for a month left.. that makes 300 years. Its rather vague and non-specific.

Foggo
All mentions of Foggo have apparently been exised from this article. This make the article incomplete, imho. Many have stated that Goss' appointment of Foggo, and his refusal to fire him, was a contributing factor to Goss' firing. Thoughts anyone? -- Sholom 17:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Title
The article refers to Goss as having being the appointed as the CIA director. In fact, Goss was Director of Central Intelligence which was a combination of the job of CIA director and of the later-created Director of National Intelligence. The job of CIA director wasn't created until shortly before Goss resigned. While I understand that it's popularly known as CIA director, it simply isn't so. Lordjeff06 (talk) 22:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a good point! During the last decade the CIA along with the whole intelligence community went through a bunch of confusing restructuring. Indeed, on December 17, 2004, the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act was signed, which abolished the positions of Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) and Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (DDCI). Instead, it created the positions of the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (D/CIA) and of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI). --Nabak (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Re-opening move discussion
It's been three years since the last move discussion on this page, so I'm re-opening in a new section. This article should be moved to Porter Goss ; "Porter Goss" is more commonly used than "Porter J. Goss", and per Naming conventions (people) the name should be in first name, last name format, with no middle initial, unless the name with initial is demonstrably more common. Baileypalblue (talk) 02:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Support I agree with the premise, and moving when the initial is not most commonly used makes sense. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Moved. --Delirium (talk) 06:35, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Resignation Section
This is the closing sentence of the Resignation section:


 * Goss is was an active speaker on the lecture circuit.

Was he or is he? Should this be in this section? If it's "was" then it's not very relevant. If it's "is" and should stay, perhaps it should be reworded to say something along the lines of "Since his resignation, Goss has been an active speaker ...." Ileanadu (talk) 15:35, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Early Changes Under Goss - Dates & Citations needed throughout
Timeline is not very clear. When did the events happen?


 * A week later, Kappes and Sulick, ...

A week after what?

In final paragraph it says:


 * Following Goss's departure, both Kappas and Sulick have returned to positions of higher authority in the U.S. Intelligence Community. Kappas is the Deputy Director of the CIA and Sulick was appointed Director of the National Clandestine Service on September 14, 2007.

Why include the date for one and not the other? Were they both appointed on 9/14/07? Is this referring to Kappes' more recent appointment along with Leon Panetta in 2009? If so, is it "following Goss's departure" or "since."


 * BTW, it should be "Kappes" not "Kappas." I will change.

Further adding to the confusion regarding the timeline:


 * Since Kappes reemergence at the CIA it has been reported that he quit the Agency rather than carry out a request by Goss to reassign Michael Sulick.

The resignations occurred in 2005 (2004, or 2006) but it wasn't known until his reemergence in 2007 or 2009 why he had resigned? I recall contemporaneous reports linking Sulick's and Kappes resignations. Who reported/what's the source?

There's nothing in the section actually about changes other than Goss promised to make changes. It's really talking about personality clashes after Goss came in. Is the point that he was unable to make changes? Were any changes made? If so, what?

In the 3rd paragraph where the personality clashes are first described, it says:


 * Kappes was rumored to have personally told DO officers ...
 * were reported to believe

We're including rumors? Without a source? Reported by whom? Citations?

Apparently we also know what was going on in the actor's minds:


 * A week later, Kappes and Sulick, recognizing that Goss was going to protect his former Hill staff, ... who Goss reportedly believed had started the whole series of events by ...

I only have a cursory knowledge about these events and the CIA in general; otherwise I'd make changes instead of just criticizing. Ileanadu (talk) 16:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

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