Talk:Premier of Ontario

Untitled
The office of Ontario Premier did not replace that of the Prime Minister of the Province of Canada. Ontario did not exist until it was created in 1867. Did the office of Quebec premier also replace that of the Prime Minister of the Province of Canada? This was an entirely new creation, a federation. Upper Canada, Lower Canada, and the Province of Canada were unitary states. Ministers has responsibility for the whole of the Province of Canada (e.g. all public works) Canada is a federal state, and responsibilities were split (interprovincial railways and canals were federal; local railways were provincial and so on). Forget about the replacement or continuation idea. The Ontario of 1867 was a new creation and Oliver Mowat in particular soon showed John A. Macdonald that he would exercise far more power than Macdonald and many others could have imagined (see Ontario history articles).--BrentS 4 July 2005 01:00 (UTC)
 * Further to the above. Three offices replaced the office and functions of PM of the Province of Canada: the PM of Canada, the premier of Quebec and the premier of Ontario. Between July 1-15, 1867 there was no premier or government of Ontario. John Sandfield Macdonald was sworn in July 15 by acting Lieut Gov General Sisted who called upon him to form a government. John A. Macdonald managed the whole business. Elections were held later.--BrentS 4 July 2005 15:09 (UTC)

Prime Minister of Ontario
I'm just curious, can we add a piece describing the title as Prime Minister of Ontario? It was the official title of the Premier until the 1970's and while it has fallen into disuse it's still an official title. It goes a long with the MLA's for Ontario officially being called MPP's (Members of Provincial Parliament). It seems like an interesting historical side note. Celynn (talk) 17:53, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I second that. I've been coming across that term frequently, recently. --  Zanimum (talk) 23:27, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree to add a section describing the title "Prime Minister of Ontario". I read in the 1968 plague of Highway 401 and found this title. It represents history of Ontario. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.179.253 (talk) 18:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

French version of 'Premier of Ontario', in the intro
Perhaps we should follow the practice of the 7 other english province & 3 english territorial Premier articles & leave out the French version. For example: see Premier of Manitoba, Premier of Nova Scotia, Premier of Prince Edward Island, etc etc. GoodDay (talk) 03:44, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree, but NotWillyWonka do it on purpose or he's blocked. French is recognized in some municipalities, but it's not an official language; Ontario's language is de facto English.
 * If I may, your edit warring to exclude the French version, isn't acceptable on Wikipedia. You must respect WP:BRD & then get a consensus here for the exclusion. GoodDay (talk) 04:01, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Ontario recognizes bilingualism. All government agencies have names in both languages, Ontario is home to a large francophone population, legal status of French language in Ontario is not in question. As the Premier is a member of the legislature, and the use of French is guaranteed in the legislature, I see no conflict. We do not just remove things because we don't like, or that their "official status" is not what we want. Three separate registered users have reverted the removal, it should not be re-removed until a consensus is reached, this is how non disruptive editing takes place.--NotWillyWonka (talk) 04:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Why has a french version been placed on only two other premier articles? GoodDay (talk) 04:06, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Ontario recognizes French-speaking communities in some municipalities (for example Sudbury), but at the provincial level it's not an official language, English is de facto the province's language. And this is the same thing in Quebec, but with the small English-speaking community : they have the right to have services in English language (only in municipalities where English language is important), but the province's language is French. You just have to read the article on French Language Services Act to realize. French language has a special status but that's all.
 * If you want to get all "legal" and "legislative" let me quote the act in question: "Existing practice protected - 6. This Act shall not be construed to limit the use of the English or French language outside of the application of this Act. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.32, s. 6.", "Use of English or French in Legislative Assembly - 3.  (1)  Everyone has the right to use English or French in the debates and other proceedings of the Legislative Assembly. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.32, s. 3 (1).", "Bills and Acts of the Assembly - (2)  The public Bills of the Legislative Assembly introduced after the 1st day of January, 1991 shall be introduced and enacted in both English and French. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.32, s. 3 (2).". If a law is enacted in french, it has legal force - in all French legislation in Ontario the "premier" is "Premier ministre", (It is understood that the feminine version is acceptable just like legislation that refers to the "king" also means "queen" when the royal is a female). In Ontario, unlike Québec, the correct names for "things" in the language that the statute is enacted are used, instead of the majority language. All ministries, departments, agencies, in Ontario have official names in both languages. There is no "de jure" official language in Ontario, however in the preamble to the "French language services act", it clearly states: "Whereas the French language is an historic and honoured language in Ontario and recognized by the Constitution as an official language in Canada; and whereas in Ontario the French language is recognized as an official language in the courts and in education; and whereas the Legislative Assembly recognizes the contribution of the cultural heritage of the French speaking population and wishes to preserve it for future generations; and whereas it is desirable to guarantee the use of the French language in institutions of the Legislature and the Government of Ontario, as provided in this Act;". Why are we "dishonouring the language by suppressing it here? The "legal" name, or perceived legal name, of things are not the only things we put in this "encyclopedia", we also use common names, alternate language names, colloquial names. --NotWillyWonka (talk) 04:36, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree with Aze. The french version should be removed. Either that or added to all provincial & territorial premier articles, under the fact that Englis & French are Canada's official languages. The latter argument was used for having french versions in the provicinal & territorial infobox headings. GoodDay (talk) 04:56, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to, and in fact embrace, adding it to the other jurisdictions. I do feel that consensus should be followed, and as there are at least three users who have re-added it back to this article and only one user having removed it, consensus seems to be in favor of inclusion. IMHO. --NotWillyWonka (talk) 05:05, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * There's no reason to remove the French translation. French is not an official language of Ontario, but, it is used by the government, anyway, and administered by the government, too , through act of parliament: . French also has legal status in the Ontario legislature: . Given that Premier of Ontario is a government office, it seems entirely appropriate to provide the French translation of the title. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  18:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

In the old days, I would've pushed for the exclusion of the french version from all provincial & territorial premiers articles, based on this being English Language Wikipedia. However, I got enough bumps on the noggin, to not push that argument again :) GoodDay (talk) 21:40, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

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Description
The post should not just simply state that the premier is the "first minister of the crown". It does not speicifiy of which organization/state and there are many first ministers of the Crown. AtishT20 (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Text
Can we please change the description so that it is more specific and not general? AtishT20 (talk) 18:11, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Lede
May I suggest we change the lede? Like for the prime minister of Canada, it had to be changed as it stated the pm was the first minister of the Crown, which isn't specific enough. The start of the lede is too general as there are many first ministers of the Crown, not just one. I propose this: The Premier of Ontario is the principal minister of the Crown of the Government of Ontario and head of the state's executive council." We can keep the rest the same. AtishT20 (talk) 14:48, 30 April 2022 (UTC)


 * My understanding is this has been an often discussed and reverted issue here. I haven't been the one reverting, but I think that there is enough information in context earlier in the lede that we should stick with the more plain language approach, esepcially with principal minister and state are unusual phrasing within the Canadian context. ("The premier of Ontario (French: premier ministre de l'Ontario) is the head of government of Ontario."). Kwkintegrator (talk) 17:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)