Talk:Primum non nocere

Directors, Redirectors, please write under this line !
Anyone else think this should just redirect to Hippocratic oath? &#8212; No-One Jones (talk) 15:44, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. And since Hippocrates wrote in Greek, isn't a Latin tag for an entry heading just a little pretentious? Besides, encyclopedia entries are reports not essays. Wetman 15:47, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Greek etc
Dear &#8212; No-One Jones, (talk), Wetman Wikifellows,

At 15:44, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC) I wasn't even ready writing primum non nocere ! So,



Before we think about parsing the material under essays, reports, articles or maps of one's mind'' for that matter,

Let's just please think content.



Ignorance of Greek, or ignorance per se is a poor excuse for anything.

&#954;&#945;&#955;&#8182;&#962; &#947;&#8049;&#961;, &#8038; &#7953;&#964;&#945;&#8150;&#961;&#949;, &#955;&#8051;&#947;&#949;&#953;: &#967;&#961;&#8052; &#956;&#8051;&#957;&#964;&#959;&#953; &#960;&#961;&#8056;&#962; &#964;&#8183; &#7993;&#960;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#961;&#8049;&#964;&#949;&#953; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#955;&#8057;&#947;&#959;&#957; &#7952;&#958;&#949;&#964;&#8049;&#950;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945; &#963;&#954;&#959;&#960;&#949;&#8150;&#957; &#949;&#7984; &#963;&#965;&#956;&#966;&#969;&#957;&#949;&#8150;.

Rather than Greeklish, would you like it in your own flavor of Ancient Greek?

Here it is :

&#954;&#945;&#955;&#969;&#770;&#962; &#947;&#945;&#769;&#961;, &#969;&#787;&#770; &#949;&#788;&#964;&#945;&#953;&#770;&#961;&#949;, &#955;&#949;&#769;&#947;&#949;&#953;: &#967;&#961;&#951;&#768; &#956;&#949;&#769;&#957;&#964;&#959;&#953; &#960;&#961;&#959;&#768;&#962; &#964;&#969;&#770;&#837; &#788;&#921;&#960;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#961;&#945;&#769;&#964;&#949;&#953; &#964;&#959;&#768;&#957; &#955;&#959;&#769;&#947;&#959;&#957; &#949;&#787;&#958;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#769;&#950;&#959;&#957;&#964;&#945; &#963;&#954;&#959;&#960;&#949;&#953;&#770;&#957; &#949;&#953;&#787; &#963;&#965;&#956;&#966;&#969;&#957;&#949;&#953;&#770;.

Or better, still, in beta code ?

Here it is :

to\ toi/nun peri\ fu/sews sko/pei ti/ pote le/gei *(ippokra/ths te kai\ o( a)lhqh\s lo/gos. a)=r' ou)x w(=de dei= dianoei=sqai

English, anyone ?

(He is right, my friend(s); however, we ought not to be content with the authority of Hippocrates, but to see also if our reason agrees with him on examination.)

If you find out where this is from, in less than ten minutes starting now, then OK, cut, redirect, parse, you know, anything goes, just do it ! If not, please let me pack my little pretensious bragware and close my Wiki career, period !



Let's just think about how this little pretentious yet vital medical principle has its own place under the sun. Remember Diogenes ?

--- Alexander: I can do anything. What do you want ? --- Diogenes : Do not take away from me what you can't give me ! --- Alexander: What ? --- Diogenes : Just please get away from the sun. You keep my barrel in the shadow !



In conclusion, with all due respect, and in friendship, while we walk along this, in kind peripathetic, or only pathetic compassion and refill our minds with the spirit of Wiki,

Let it be !

Passionately the same, Yours, irismeister 18:00, 2004 Jan 20 (UTC)

The time has come...
My dear friends, With the deadline passed, I may assume I can now reveal my sources: It's Phaedrus 270 c. Good old Plato, don't you know it ? FYI your little pretentious crank insists that primum non nocere is *NOT*, repeat not a part of the Oath, but of the Aphorisms. Yet another Hippocratic work. Never mind if it's not Wikified yet. I'll write it too one day, God willing... Then you'll do some reeeeal redirect. Please follow developments Here, under Bragware. Interesting complications...

'''Componentization of culture is rampant these days! But we Wikipedians keep up the good work. There is this redirect red button. We only have to know where to redirect when we push it...''' Passionately the same, Yours, irismeister 18:00, 2004 Jan 20 (UTC)

What is this?
What on earth is this? I thought I understood primum non nocere but this article gives me a headache. Can anyone explain it to me, and help me understand how to turn it into a more focused article? Jwrosenzweig 05:44, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This article reads like a persuasive essay or editorial. There may be good information that could be used in an encyclopedia entry, but its current form is completely inappropriate for a Wikipedia article.
 * -Rholton (aka Anthropos) 16:22, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Only addressing the issue of 100,000+ collateral damage deaths per year (in the US only), as a result of our idolatric, reason-suspending, exclusive and aggressive use of Conventional medicine. Each life saved matters to followers of Hippocratic Oath and readers of his Hippocratic Corpus - it's really difficult to change that. I maintain that Primum non nocere needs balance even in terms of NPOV since a good NPOV does not suppress POVs, only balances them. Hence the need of registering meticulously ALL POVs. The good old golden standard Audi alteram partem No offense ! - irismeister 17:33, 2004 Mar 12 (UTC)

I thought perhaps this article would link to Hippocratic oath, but it looks like there has been a great deal of debate about this sort of thing. I'm not suggesting redirect, just link. heidimo 16:25, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I hope I have improved it by trying to make it simpler and clearer, as well as it's applicability to anyone attempting to treat anyone else with anything. If I understand his somewhat tangential notes above, Irismeister suggests it comes from the Aphorisms. I found a source that seems credible that disputes it but I would be happy to yield to an exact citation from Galen, Hippocrates, or anyone else. Alteripse 02:09, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Copy Editor's Creed
Physicians aren't the only ones who use this maxim; it's also taught to budding copy editors. Worth including in the article?

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Primum succurrere
I believe the language of this section may make it hard for some readers to understand. Such terms as amelioration and palliation, while perhaps common in medical texts, may not be understood by the average reader. Concise definitions of words that necessary but may not be understood should be given in parenthesis, while such words which are not strictly necessary should be substituted with more widely understood terminology. I would have tagged the section, but I couldn't find a relevant template. --Muna (talk) 18:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

New section: Conflicts and controversies
I'd be interested in including a section for "Conflicts and controversies", outlining when medical patients, as customers, want a service that is frequently defined as harmful (i.e, euthanasia, certain other types of unnecessary cosmetic surgery, including circumcision, etc.). It may be opening a can of worms, so the section might struggle with neutrality issues. Is anyone aware of a good, well-referenced public domain text? samwaltz (talk) 21:43, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

"Do no harm" is also the first of Methodist founder John Wesley's "3 Simple Rules." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.217.6 (talk) 04:42, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Ahimsa
a comparison with ahimsa may be useful.

--Elvenmuse (talk) 04:16, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Pedantry
To be pedantic, "primum non nocere" can't be construed as "first, do no harm", though it's almost always rendered into English that way. It's not terribly good Latin; but for what it's worth, it means rather "The first (thing) (is) not to do harm." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.86.191.17 (talk) 15:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Earlier Source
Google Books has an earlier use of the Latin phrase in an 1834 Spanish translation of De Lattier de Laroche's Curación de la Catarata sin Operación Quirúrgica: "El baron Boyer en su tratado de enfermedades quirúrgicas dice: '... Operando muy pronbto se cae en contradiccion con el principio del arte primum non nocere.'" ("Baron Boyer, in his treatise on surgical diseases says : '... Operating quickly contradicts the principle of art primum non nocere.'") It also shows up in an 1841 German homeopathic journal, Hygea. Evank (talk) 15:26, 22 October 2013 (UTC)