Talk:Prom/Archive 1

Prom Queen from Eisner
Michael Eisner the former CEO of Walt Disney is producing a notable internet series called Prom Queen (internet series). The page Prom queen redirects here. Would anyone object to Redirect at the top of the page? --JayHenry 23:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That sounds totally appropriate Jay. -- Siobhan Hansa 01:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Prom + being gay
High school prom has always been something that put gay students in a situation that is at least somehow awkward. The first gay couple who went to a prom together were Randy Rohl and Grady Quinn, in Sioux Falls, SD, in 1979. Source: Charles Kaiser: The Gay Metropolis: 1940-1996, Boston, New York (Houghton Mifflin) 1997. ISBN 0-395-65781-4, p. 270. --Stilfehler 17:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Caption necessity
Is the line, Girls these days tend to wear just a bit more revealing dresses for prom than shown in the picture., really needed to be in the photo caption or can we remove it? -Martinman 20:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * erm. No.  Well spotted.  I deleted it. -- Siobhan Hansa 22:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the follow-up. -Martinman 19:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

British usage
I left school (in England) in 1993, and in those days the only time you ever heard "prom" was in stories relating to the US, or in Grange Hill. These days both the term and the US-style event seem to be steadily creeping in to mainstream UK school usage. (Personally I don't think it works very well at all in most British settings, but that's highly POV!) Loganberry (Talk) 03:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed a paragraph
I removed the following idiotic claim from the opening section:
 * Richwood High in West Virginia, is rumored to be the only school left in the USA that has Promenade where the class plans and decorates the school gym to look like a ballroom or a garden and their family, friends and the community comes to watch.

I trust nobody has any issue with that. --V2Blast (talk) 20:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The edit seems to have been made by someone using the IP address 207.69.140.33. --V2Blast (talk) 20:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Opinion on materialistic nature
Some people think that prom is being taken a little too far. Girls will go to great lengths to have a "perfect prom". There are so many trivial things students spend money on for that one night, such as, expensive dresses and shoes, the limo, corsages, and dinner. Some people are thinking that prom is becoming to materialistic.
 * Those people should research the topic and post their research on another website. Then we can link to it from here.  WP:NOR Juneappal 20:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Its a valid point and WP:NOR doesnt apply to a talk page. 86.40.217.41 (talk) 20:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I think comments in the article on corsages, limos (which I added), etc. are part of the cultural experience of Prom in the US and not just a list of things that kids spend money on. Anyway, thls limo/corsages/dress spending has been going on for at least thirty years and not a reflection of contemporary materialism. 99.142.88.82 (talk) 16:14, 29 April 2009 (UTC)BJS

Proms in popular culture
I recently saw a Simpsons episode featuring a Prom flash-back and it got me thinking that an inordinate number of US TV show episodes and movies focussing on the Prom, possibly only matched by High-school reunions. Perhaps they were all written by the nerdy guys who never had a date and are exorcising their demons? I'm more than happy to start off a list that should eventually make its way onto the front page.

 Proms in TV shows

The Simpsons - flashback of how Homer and Marge first met.

 Proms in movies

Sixteen Candles [or was this just a high-school dance?]

Carrie

[oops, been summoned - I leave it in all your capable hands].60.242.50.195]


 * A straight list without context doesn't seem that informative, but a summary of critics' analysis of TV's treatment of proms could be encyclopedic. -- SiobhanHansa 20:01, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

and now that I read "Prom Queen" Internet Series, it says something about killing the prom queen...come on the popular culture reflections of prom are not overly accurate... Sixteen Candles? out of date and not Prom anyway, Simpsons? Prom in the 1970s sort of not really and Carrie, a 1970s slasher film. So most of the references are about murder or 1970s/1980s...hardly accurate assesments of modern prom. Thanks for keeping them here on the discussion page. 99.148.25.127 (talk) 13:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)BJS

Russia and "SIC" countries
This section has poor grammar and punctuation, and some of the words don't make sense in the context used ("after the cities have been growned"?). In English, it's CIS, not SIC. Someone should try to figure this section out and fix it up. GBC (talk) 08:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

What happened to all the US content?
Last time I was here, which was about six months ago, there was content on the US Prom including tickets, junior vs. senior prom, and limos. And now it is all gone. Was there some big purge I missed?


 * Not a big purge, just normal editing that results in deletion of extraneous detail. If you want to keep up with edits add this article to your watchlist and take a look at it more often than every 6 months. Roger (talk) 09:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Roger...my fault for not keeping up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.142.76.191 (talk) 20:14, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Afterglow?
What about afterglow, or afterglow type events, which typically happen after prom on prom nights, I'm not sure if its an american or regional thing, but its basically parties that parents host after the prom event (or businesses, the school, etc) so that teenagers won't get into trouble. they might even be run in the school, or within a school at the district. I'm not sure on the formality. Atomic1fire (talk) 05:14, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

This is called Post Prom in my area and your description is accurate. The former content was present at one time and written by me, but removed at some point within the last six months. I agree it is relevant. 99.144.218.56 (talk) 02:16, 1 May 2010 (UTC)BJS

Tradition?
Anyone know where this tradition came from / history of? Maybe we want to have a tidbit on that. ChronoSphere 13:05, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


 * "Randon article" dropped me into this page. I saw your discussion and added a history section in response to your request. Hope it's useful. 71.195.206.168 23:49, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I see that this entire section was completely removed because someone accused me of copy and pasting it from a copyrighted article. First it was not completely copy and pasted. Second, if you think it was, why don't you take the time to edit it? 71.195.206.168 11:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Uh, in Massachusetts at least, junior prom and senior prom are at the end of junior year and senior year of high school, not at the end of high school and college as the article says. So is that just here, or is that something we should change?

agreed - "In the United States, a prom, short for promenade, is a formal dance held at the end of the years of high school and college, called junior prom and senior prom respectively." makes no sense. junior prom = end of junior year of high school, senior prom = end of senior year of high school. i have never heard of a collegiate prom; perhaps formal dances, but not by that name. this could be regional - i am from the northeast as well - but i haven't ever heard of high school prom being a junior prom and a collegiate prom being called senior prom. if others agree please change the article!


 * I live in the Western US and we follow the same system. Metalrobot 15:04, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the "Junior prom" is because of the Junior class's sponsorship of prom. At schools in suburban Chicago Juniors and Seniors in high school attend prom - one prom. I also never have heard of "Senior Prom" referring to collegiate dances in fact I never heard of Prom at college! 99.141.182.202 (talk)BJS —Preceding undated comment added 02:31, 26 April 2009 (UTC).

On 21 May 2010 I added the Prom tradition section back in. Otherbeach (talk) 23:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)BJS

Prom queen popularity

 * Although the Prom Queen is usually the most popular girl, any student from class is eligible to be voted.

I think "the most popular girl" is not a very good expression; the most popular by what measure? I presume this means some sort of implicit popularity among ones peers, but any such measure would be very subjective and debatable, and most of all unverifiable. Should be rephrased, in my opinion. 82.181.61.48 20:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

In Australia, a Prom is commonly referred to as a Formal and a Ball. A Debutante Ball (or Deb Ball) in Australia is not the same as a Highschool Ball or Formal. A Debutante Ball is often organized outside of school, and can involve people from several schools. It is seen as an event where girls are 'Presented', and is taken very seriously. It is typically a large classical dance event, with formal dancing attended for many weeks in preparation. In Australia, University social groups and clubs also hold Balls or Formals. They are usually much less formal, although depending on the club / group in particular it may be a formal event.202.161.87.27 17:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, in Australia a Debutante Ball is very different to a high school formal, mainly because the formal is a school thing and a Deb is organised outside of school. I'm not sure whether the person who originally wrote this had done some actual research and found a source saying that a formal is sometimes called a debutante ball in Australia, but if not then I think this should be deleted because the terms really do mean very different things, as they do in many other countries. I don't have a source for this, I just know it because I live in Australia and know what these terms mean, but I doubt the person who originally wrote that had a source either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.252.21 (talk) 12:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The fact that someone is elected to the title means by definition that the winner is the most popular - that is the point of an election. Roger (talk) 15:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Prom queen
Prom queen redirects here, yet there is zero information on what a prom queen is.--24.85.68.231 (talk) 18:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I am working to add prom queen / king / court info back in. 99.144.218.56 (talk) 13:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)BJS And I did! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Otherbeach (talk • contribs) 20:59, 25 May 2010 (UTC) Noted that Homecoming Court is like Prom Court. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.173.6.110 (talk) 18:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

145,082-person (and growing) controversy detected involving one couple at one high school's prom
[http://www.facebook.com/pages/Let-James-Tate-Go-to-the-Prom/146161672121334?sk=wall&filter=2 wow, look at this. Surely this is notable?] 198.151.130.15 (talk) 23:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * And, yes, James Tate has made several news organizations already, Google it. 198.151.130.15 (talk) 23:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Month they take place in Austria
"In Austria [..] the last year in Gymnasium is celebrated with a ball called [..] Maturaball [..]. This dance takes place before exams are taken, usually in January or February, the traditional season for balls during the Fasching."

For me, living in Styria, it seems most Maturabälle are held in November. (The earliest are in October.) In other areas of Austria they are in January (only very few in February, but still), that's true, but the Maturaball isn't related in any way to the balls during Fasching and usually does NOT take place in Fasching.

That's my experience. Did anyone see a Maturaball in Fasching over here in the past few years?

--91.115.1.252 (talk) 21:19, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Definite article
I am curious as to why I keep hearing people refer to "prom," not "the prom," "my prom," "a prom." But it mostly the dropping of the definite article that I keep hearing. I first noticed this in one of John Hughe's films (Pretty in Pink, I think). Is this a mid-western affectation? (I'm from the east coast). I heard it again during something to do with the Oscars, where the host said so and so "looks like she's going to prom." Does this strike anyone else as odd? Seaneboy44 (talk) 14:09, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Yes, YES. I only started hearing about "prom" 4 or 5 years ago in Western PA.


 * I came by this article hoping for some explanation of this phenomenon, or, at the very least, to see which style the article used. I was very disappointed to find that the article isn't even consistent as to whether it is "the prom" or "prom". 174.57.203.45 (talk) 01:55, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

"Prom" in Italy
"It is not a formal event, and the students will often perform cabaret shows in which they make a parody of their teachers." Cabaret shows? That's a bit far fetched. In Italy we have "i 100 giorni", which is a party you hold with your classmates 100 days before the state exam at the end of the last year of high school. There is no rule or custom as to how the "100 giorni" party is organized. Often it's organized by students themselves in a location of their choice, the school is not involved in it, and surely it does not have anything to do with cabarets, more with eating and getting drunk with your classmates. Secrettango (talk) 10:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I fail to see how this Italian custom - either cabaret or party - has anything to do with Prom. You are comparing an American high school dance to some drunken Italian gathering (you said, not me) BJS User:Otherbeach —Preceding undated comment added 17:30, 25 April 2012 (UTC).

Merge with "School formal"
Since the Prom page has been a catch all for every type of school dance and celebration, NZ's School Formal could probably fit fine within this framework. Agreed to merge proposal. Otherbeach (talk) 20:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * @Otherbeach See . If my proposed edits go ahead, then I would agree with that merge. Rob (talk) 15:45, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Rest of the world content
I think this article should say more about the specific American thing called Prom, which is unique in the world, nowhere else are people so crazy and mad about their proms. Also, there are all kinds of weird customs, that make the American prom unique. The rest of the world has nothing to do in this prom article. One could create a "School graduation customs around the world" article, or something. Grouping the rest of the world under the heading "prom" is America centric.--24.85.68.231 (talk) 18:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * User:24.85.68.231, you said "nowhere else are people so crazy and mad about their proms" - how exactly do you know this, have you ever witnessed it in any other country? Roger (talk) 20:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Roger, User:24.85.68.231's point is: they don't have 'it' in any other country. I'm not sure, whether that is completely true. But surely they don't have it in every other country. They may have a tradition that is similar in certain respects; they might even call it "prom"---the question remains: is it really the same thing? Seeking an analog in every other country does strike me as America centric (to use User:24.85.68.231's expression). Because it seems to rest on the assumption that there should be such analogs, which amounts to treating an American custom as something of an anthropological constant. How else could you /start/ with the idea that 'it' can be witnessed in other countries?
 * Just to give an example of the distortions which make evident that this assumption (being their cause) has the character of a prejudice: Though I'm Swiss, until today I never even /heard/ the expression "bal de printemps". (Surely, this is largely due to the fact that I don't hail from the francophone part of the country. But there might be other reasons as well ... ) But this not my point; what is so telling is that the source cited in fact contradicts the entry on the subject of whether this type of ball is equivalent to the American prom.
 * "[W]e aren’t blessed with the great adventure [sic!] that is prom. However, we do have other traditions here. For example the bal de printemps, translation: the spring ball."
 * The emphasis being on "other". The source also makes clear that there is not just one such spring ball per year. Also, they do not seem to be tied to the end of the school year. By contrast, I'd expect (thus contradicting the entry) a Maturaball to take place after the Matura-exams, since attendees will be celebrating their passing these exams. I'd also consider (again in contrast to the entry) any school that organized such a thing weird and quite frankly frivolous (I don't pay taxes so kids can go ballroom dancing). In any case, its not a traditional thing. The regular thing to do would probably be to have a (informal) party with your classmates.TheseusX (talk) 00:30, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * @Roger @TheseusX Regarding this discussion, I would advise editors reading up on Proms in the UK as they appear to be very similar to those in the USA, and make clear the obvious bias POV of this article. See . Rob (talk) 15:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Proms are not exclusive to the English-speaking world
This entire article appears to be flawed in that it suggests that a 'Prom' is an American event, with similar events worldwide. This is both a bias way to structure an article, and highly inaccurate. The idea of having an Prom at the end of a period of school/collage/university years is highly common worldwide, and that is essentially what this article should describe. It should describe the various forms of this event in different regions, and the various terminology used to describe it, rather then describing an American event and then describing so called variations of it. 'Prom' appears to be the most common phrase, and is certainly used in the USA, but also from my personal experience, used a lot in England, possible more then other terms, so the title of this article is adequate I think. I would like to see the introduction of this article changed from a bias POV, to a neutral POV, and the article restructured to provide information on the various regional variations equally. This would require removing the information about the USA and Commonwealth variations out of the introduction and changing it to summarise the various events worldwide. Unless someone would prefer to go about making these changes, or objects to them for some reason, I will make the changes as soon as I can. Regards, Rob (talk) 15:41, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not the way to do it. I suggest that you wait and see what other editors say, and in the meantime go and find some reliable sources to back up your "opinion".  My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the prom was originally very much a US institution - and the article should reflect that fact - but the term is now in widespread general use in the UK.  In UK schools, "discos" can happen almost any time (although no-one over the age of about 10 would be seen dead at a "disco"), but a "prom" only happens at the end of year 11 (age 16) and is a major social event in exactly the same way as a US prom (formal dress, stretch limo, the works).  The statement in the introduction that "In Britain...  the terms formal and grad are most commonly used..." is completely wrong - I can't speak for Canada and Australia, but as a British parent I have never heard those terms used.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: There's some good references to the UK situation here, here, here, and here.  All of them demonstrate that the US-style prom is now embedded in UK culture (like it or not...).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:39, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) This article is not about the term 'Prom', its about the various events held worldwide for those graduating high, secondary or middle school. I don't disagree that this kind of event is a US institution, however that doesn't justify the bias structure of the article. I think that the introduction of the article should include information about the origin of this event, however if it is now a worldwide event, the lead should make this clear. The current introduction simply doesn't summarise the article. Rather then making claims of bias, non-natural POV, I could have approached this differently, however this article clearly doesn't follow MOS:LEAD regardless of its POV. Rob (talk) 16:49, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've updated the UK info, with a ref (more refs can be provided if required). But, I agree with Rob that the article needs a good restructuring and copy-edit.  It reads as though it is just a mass of information put together by individuals from different countries - which is probably what it is - rather than an encyclopedic overview.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I am not comfortable with comparing a decades old American institution with every dance and drunken gathering (see Italian custom) that happens to come at the end of school. Otherbeach (talk) 23:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The emphasis should be on the US prom, and its direct adoption in other parts of the world such as the UK (see links above). Events in other parts of the world which have some similarities but which are clearly different, in title or in character, should only be briefly mentioned here, if at all - or, if articles exist, linked in a "See also" section.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: There also needs to be a mention (section?) in the article on "Prom in popular culture", or similar. The UK links above indicate that it is shows and movies like High School Musical, Glee and Hannah Montana that have given the modern US prom global awareness.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:14, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Now that is better Ghmyrtle...I like your idea with one exception. As long as shows and movies are relevant and nearly current that might be appropriate. For example: Prom in the movie "Carrie"...a 1970s reference with limited modern relevance. Otherbeach (talk) 20:23, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Whatever cultural references are made, they need to be drawn from published sources. Some of the British references I gave above mention specific US movies and TV shows as having given wider awareness to the prom idea.  But, I don't think they quite explain why an event which was previously known to exist, but was seen as a strange and strictly-US phenomenon, has suddenly (within a few years) taken off so dramatically within the UK (and perhaps elsewhere).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:05, 2 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Of course I cannot say why the institution of Prom is popular internationally.  I know of many movies, TV shows, and media references to Prom and many of them are barely reflective of the reality of Prom. Perhaps (from what I have seen) the modern Disney movie "Prom" might be as close as they come.  But I have been to Prom, decorated Prom, photographed Prom, planned Prom, and been a class sponsor for American Proms for 30 years and the media depictions are not that accurate.  Otherbeach (talk) 18:46, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Recent additions to Prom
A relatively new editor has added some contentious materiel to the Post Prom Section, over which there has been some edit warring.
 * 1) Here's the longer version of what this editor added:, and the abbreviated version removes a few words.
 * 2) However, before the "Oh Noz Censorship" arguments rage, look at the references for these additions:, . I don't see that these references support the addition at all.
 * Note that neither references "handjobs" or "blowjobs" by those or any other names
 * Nor does either support the text "The hours after prom are also a traditional time for students (particularly those in long-term relationships) to engage in romantic and/or sexual activity, sometimes including the loss of virginity"

I am going to remove the text. JoeSperrazza (talk) 21:58, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Patch is not a reliable source. About.com is a bunch of poorly paid blogs. The additions are sensationalism on the level of Kim Kardashian's wedding. --NellieBly (talk) 00:00, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * There might be an alternative source in Seventeen magazine (vol 59, iss. 3, p. 132). Not endorsing Seventeen as being necessarily reliable, but it's very likely that prom sex should be covered here as it's a pretty widely-discussed matter. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 00:19, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a better source might be I'm sure there are other sources that could be found by some cursory research. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 00:23, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Or, you know, not. Teenagers want to screw, they will take whatever opportunity presents itself. Guy (Help!) 07:27, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Try ISBN 0415924286 or ISBN 9780415924283. Balaenoptera musculus (talk) 11:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Time of the year?
when does a prom happen? at the end of a school year? when does a school year usually end? ExpImp talk con 23:50, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Usually in June.-- Auric    talk  11:40, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * In what country? The timing of Prom depends on many factors not least is the school calendar - which varies between countries. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

History
U.S. Proms have changed over time. In small towns in the Mid-West in the late 1950s, junior and senior boys asked girls, preferably weeks in advance. Sometimes the boy would arrange with a friend to make it a double date. The boy would usually pin corsages onto the upper part of the girl's dress (this could be unnerving, especially if the dress was strapless). Boutonnieres were pinned on the boy's tuxedos (but I'm not sure that all girls gave them). Corsages were normally of orchids, though roses (the standard for other dances where corsages were given) and gardenias were not rarely used. It was common to go to a local restaurant before the dance, though the meal might be had at the home of the boy. Parents might drive if boys didn't have car access. (I never heard of using taxis, limos or busses). There might be a party, e.g., at a student's home after the dance. The party might be a swimming party or a breakfast party. Also, or alternatively, there might be a next day affair: low-keyed and in changed clothes, where the kids might meet at, say, a local park and hang out. If I am not mistaken, there was no charge for the dance. Nor were there chaperones at least at the ones I went to. The whole evening might cost the boy $15 if he already owned a tux or white dinner jacket. (I know this has no references, so it can't be used as such in the article, but....)64.53.191.77 (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Sex
I think some mention should be made of the ostensibly common practice of using the prom as a means of ridding oneself of their virginity. Perhaps even some information on the sexual pressures exerted on female participants can be discovered and made very relevant. Metalrobot 06:34, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, this issue was precisely why I checked this article. After seeing yet another reference to it, I decided that if anything is going to give an answer to that question, it'd be Wikipedia, which seems to have articles on every sexual topic imaginable. Surprised that there isn't, if anybody knows the answer I'd love to see it.


 * It sounds to me like an urband legend. My guess would be that most students who are going to have sex in high school will already have done so, but I don't really know.  Probably has some basis in fact, but reports are greatly exaggerated.  It makes sense that milestones in relationships would be reasons for sex, but I concede that having never even made an attempt to date, my guesses are likely to be off.


 * I do know that my school allowed couples to book rooms at the hotel together after the prom, which rather shocked me, since I'd heard a couple references to the practice already, and of course am familiar with concept of "getting a room." Ostensibly, the rooms were because the prom was a few towns away. I didn't dare ask those classmates who attended though. . . --71.192.116.13 00:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If your classmates were 18 (aka, it was the senior prom), the school's opinion on their getting rooms makes no difference--they're adults. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.203.171 (talk) 22:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

LOL. Says you. Imagine calling an 18 year old an "adult". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.145.103 (talk) 07:43, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Their schools opinion does matter because even at age 18 there are academic consequences to behavior. So even 18 year olds are subject to sanctions by the school. I agree there are no legal restrictions, but there certainly are other restrictions. Anyway, most hotels require credit cards and those "No Tell" hotels that are cash only are not generally in the area where prom attendees live! Sure argue that is elitist and not true, but I am making a general commentary on the location of hotels that don't take credit cards - usually geographically non-desirable as we say, but sure do-able, yes someone could and might travel to one! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.173.6.50 (talk) 14:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

And not everybody is 18 at the time of graduation. I have a July birthday and was still 17 when I graduated from high school.Wschart (talk) 01:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, mathematically, if birthdays are evenly distributed through the year, more than half the students of the senior year will still be 17 in mid to late June. GBC (talk) 08:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Although... that is predicated on the assumption that all schools use the same criteria - you must be six years old by January 1 (the one during the school year) in order to start Grade 1 in the preceding September. If there are schools with a different starting age criteria, it will affect the age spread of the graduates. Anyone who had to repeat a year will also be a year older than their grade peers. GBC (talk) 07:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Why are they popular?
The article should explain why millions of 21st century teenagers want to attend such formal, old-fashioned events - as opposed to lively parties, which are much more conducive to having sex and enjoying other fun activities. It's bizarre that proms have spread to more countries in recent years. 31.108.101.32 (talk) 01:03, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Maybe b/c not everyone wants to have sex, stupid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.145.103 (talk) 07:48, 30 June 2016 (UTC)


 * If you can come up with a academic citation for this reason, add it. Otherwise it is just opinion. Otherbeach (talk) 15:51, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * See Rite of passage. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:57, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Proms being a rite of passage doesn't explain why they became popular in countries where they previously didn't exist. 213.205.251.203 (talk) 22:03, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Name
surely this entire article should be renamed "Prom (American) as it quite leaves out the practises outside the United States, for instances in Scotland the men traditionally wear kilts and sex on prom night is really only an American institution.

"in British English and Australian English, it is called a formal". I have never heard of this term in England, nearest commonly used phrase is Ball, as in Summer Ball, end of year Ball (in education) etc.
 * My Canadian high school uses "formal". Usage varies, of course. Yelyos 18:36, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * I've lived in Ontario and Prince Edward Island, and my ex-wife has lived in both of those provinces as well as Alberta. Both of us have always known this event to be called a "prom".  I'm not denying that Canadians who live in places we haven't know it as a "formal", but the way the article is written is somewhat confusing.  The paragraph needs to be restructured, it's not clear what the "also" is referring to (in other words, is it saying most of us call it a "prom", and some areas also call it a "formal", or does the comma suggest that most of us call it a "ball" but some also call it a "formal"?)
 * Either way, it's a mess, it's not accurate, and the bold text is unecessary. - Ugliness Man 22:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In Australia the term "formal" is used everywhere that I'm aware of. U-238 11:48, June 13, 2006 (UTC)


 * Lived in England most of my life and am not familiar with "formal" used like this. I thought a "formal" was used to describe a dinner that on other occasions was less formal (eg usage in officers' mess) but I'm not sure. Also, of course, for many in England, "prom" means a concert (eg The Proms). Bluewave 07:39, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I am English student and my end of year thing was ca;;ed a prom, i actually greatly dislike the word, becasue it is a Ball. The word prom is too suited to american customs, i think that we need to keep things to our own countrys customs, and i would also like to mention that many popel in the Uk wear clothing that is traditional to thier home coutnry like kilts in scotland. I think a more unique option is needed.

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article; is this really the right place for "amazing cummerbunds"? The commentary on girls' dresses seemed out of place as well. "Often dress to shock or be noticed"? -   - The article still has a rambling, romanticizing tone to it, which might be a good fit for another venue but doesn't really seem appropriate here. - Mote 17:54, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Agreement with Mote I couldn't agree more with Mote's comment. I have to warn you, PMelvilleAustin is amazingly persistent in this and a few other articles (mostly relating to female attire). Everybody, this is an encyclopedia, not a meditation on women's garments. Let's keep it encyclopedic and neutral. Calling something "amazing" is clearly POV; who is amazed? NuclearWinner 22:46, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I wasn't the person who put in the "amazing" or "dress to shock or be noticed" bit and most of the article isn't mine either. The comment about girls wearing pants being not really "standing out" is mine but i got alot of emails from girls and women telling me my point was right so it's been left in for months and it's really interesting that it has come up now. As for PMelvilleAustin is amazingly persistent in this and a few other articles (mostly relating to female attire) - that isn't true either - i haven't written much on female attire and those articles i have contributed to have been edited countless times since. If you wish to insult me that is fine but this is not the place to do so. PMA 00:53, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Don't want to get into an edit war here, but "However, some people have pointed out that wearing pantsuits as a way of 'standing out' is not really that much of a gesture at all considering that many girls and women hardly ever wear dresses and skirts in daily life anymore and if anything, wearing a dress or gown to the prom would be standing out from what such people did the rest of the time."is, while a nice commentary on dressing in pants to shock, completely irrelevant to an encyclopedic description of the prom. This passage does not convey anything meaningful about what goes on at a prom or what constitutes a prom, and only serves to make the preceding statement sound even more ridiculous. Mote 01:26, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I thought that most Canadians refer to this event as "Grad"...but maybe that's just an Alberta thing? Enigma00 01:20, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

It's used in my school in Surrey, BC. Maybe "Grad" should be added to this page Windscar77 07:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that "Grad" should be added. I'm going to attempt to work it in.
 * &#9773; Zippanova  17:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm British and we had a Christmas Formal for the year 7s only (11/2 year olds) (not sure why) each year that took place in the school hall. Then there was the leaving ball or prom for the 6th formers (17/18 year olds). The ball/prom for 16 year olds was not standard and only really took place if the teachers could be bothered to organise one. It was just called a school disco in primary school and took place each year, in the school hall and was more of a fundraiser for the school Novalia (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Here in B.C., Canada, we refer to it as 'Grad.' People round here get ornery when you try to 'Americanize' Canadian traditions. That being said, some non patriotic Canadians have taken to using the American term 'prom'. The rest of Canada (REAL Canadians) feel that if they are so willing to use American terms for Canadian things, they should take the plunge and move to America. People trying to remove our Canadian identity and ways of doing things are not welcome here, and we don't need more of Americas disgusting garbage polluting our society. 96.54.137.185 (talk) 09:32, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Splitting the article
Prom is a US (or North American) phenomenon. Assuming activities in other countries will follow similar schemes is simply a American-centric bias. The section dealing with "school graduation activities" in other parts of the world should be split into an article on its own, bearing a title like "School graduation customs (around the world)". Behemoth (talk) 07:53, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * @Behemoth See . Rob (talk) 15:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Not a North American phenomenon. It's yet another American cancer attempting to infect other countries with the 'American Way.' Anyone in our country (Canada) calling our grads and dry grads 'prom' deserve a smack and a one way ticket out of Canada. 96.54.137.185 (talk) 09:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Elected kings and queens?
Monarchs aren't elected, so why do proms elect a prom king and prom queen? Those terms sound ridiculous. Jim Michael (talk) 15:11, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Monarchs are not elected? Have you checked the article on elective monarchy lately? Or the article on the Imperial elections of the Holy Roman Empire and the various lists about the electors? Hereditary monarchy is not the only type of monarchy. Dimadick (talk) 09:49, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Semi-formal
Both of my proms were described as formal (tuxes or suits for guys, gowns/dresses for girls), why does the line say semi-formal? Emperor001 (talk) 02:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

In the US, the terms "formal" and "semi-formal" are used interchangeably. I didn't say correctly, I said interchangeably. I didn't check to see if there is a Wikipedia page for "formal" or "semi-formal" but that might be a better place to discuss this. 99.142.79.31 (talk) 18:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)BJS


 * In the US, formal = tuxedo and semiformal = suit/tie. (for guys at least) (for girls maybe it is interchangeable) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.169.134.218 (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I mean in it we have full tux's and dresses. I was told that Semi-formal means no casual clothes, like sweat pants, t-shirts, shorts, jeans. Am example of semi-formal would a polo collar shirt and khakis, not what they wear at proms. The snare (talk) 22:28, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Alphabetical order
Under Europe, shouldn't Albania, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Benelux, Former Yugoslavia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Belarus and Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland be listed alphabetically? am_awfc (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

In Germany
The article reads:
 * In Germany students celebrate their graduation from [...] Gymnasium with an [...] "Abi Party" or an "Abi Ball" - although most British or American students would fail to observe any of the traditional formality found in their own events. Students are not compelled to wear Tuxedos and the women students are rarely in ball gowns.

Wrong. The Abi Ball is a classic ball with the students (and their parents) wearing tuxedos or gowns. The Abi Party however often takes place at night clubs with informal clothing. -- Gohnarch░░░░ 14:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Not wrong at all. In some areas people started copying American Prom practices (aka wearing tuxedos and ball dresses) for the Abi Ball/Abi Party in recent years, but formal clothing is not a requirement or even considered common practice throughout all of Germany whatsoever. "Classic" Abi-Bälle (as described by you) usually only take place in schools with a specific reputation (wealthier parents). --188.110.246.169 (talk) 21:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

National origin is unclear
The top part of the page says, "Similar events, which may be locally inspired by debutante balls, take place in many other parts of the world." Using the word other implies that proms originated in a certain part of the world, but that part of the world is never explicitly stated earlier on the page. 2601:4A:C100:2AE0:E134:C6A3:362C:E216 (talk) 14:47, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Anybody wanna have an article improvement party?
I added this page to my watchlist around the time I started watching Prom Queen (internet series). I wouldn't describe prom as one of my interests by any stretch. But, the page is on my watchlist, and it's possibly the worst page on my watchlist. It's mostly unsourced, uninteresting and lacking both insight and context. But, I did go to prom. And I just can't imagine that no sociologist or educator has written something about it that we could use to source improvements. Is anybody else feeling really ambitious? This is, judging from the frequent vandalism, a pretty high-visibility article. So, does anyone want to help me hit the libes, do some reading, and see if we can't get this thing up toward GA or (dare I say it?!) FA status? Any takers?? --JayHenry 21:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm... evidently not a very popular idea. Nobody??  I dug up sources that could be used to write a real article.
 * * [ http://www.amazon.com/Prom-Night-Schools-Popular-Culture/dp/0415924286/ref=sr_1_11/002-6533525-7866449?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179620586&sr=1-11 Prom Night: Youth, Schools and Popular Culture] by a San Jose State University sociologist.  She really knows this field it looks like
 * * [ http://www.amazon.com/All-About-Girl-Culture-Identity/dp/0415947006/ref=sid_dp_dp/002-6533525-7866449?ie=UTF8&qid=1179620586&sr=1-11 All About the Girl: Culture, Power, and Identity] an anthology including essays about prom.
 * * [ http://www.amazon.com/American-Prom-Richard-Ph-D-Calo/dp/1581825617/ref=sr_1_20/002-6533525-7866449?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179620586&sr=1-20 American Prom] by a Ph.D.
 * *  although a little old, this has some good information about how much people spend on prom.
 * Any interest at all? --JayHenry 00:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Any interest at all? --JayHenry 00:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the sources. I will try. Nerd271 (talk) 15:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Lead section style
The first 25 lines are written in exclusively USA terms. The lead should be general terms common to all countries, and American terminology used in the USA section 97.115.224.163 (talk) 00:32, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Uganda
In Uganda most schools have prom for O'levels and Sosh(social) for A'levels. For single sex schools, boys' schools and girls' schools join and have one big function. 41.210.155.210 (talk) 06:07, 15 December 2023 (UTC)