Talk:Psychiatric hospital/Archive 1

Old discussions
History of mental hospitals? --user:Daniel C. Boyer

Page fails to distinguish between mental hospitals and psychiatric wards. Be more precise! --user:Daniel C. Boyer

Either such hospitals are different in Britain, where the original author seems to be from, or this is a quite understated description.
 * 1) Suicide preventions measures go fairly far, including removing "sharps" (scissors, mirrors, etc.) from patients' possesion. The environment is altered as well. All windows have guards, light bulbs are enclosed, TVs are kept out of reach, etc.
 * 2) The atmosphere is not quite that calm. There is usually a bit of "acting out."
 * 3) The environment is kept more "normal" than in a medical hospital, yet the fact that most patients can not freely come and go, makes a big difference.


 * In England at least, these things vary. It depends on the hospital and the people they are designed to treat/accommodate. -- sannse 15:51 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

Is the title "mental hospital" the best one for this article? In my experience it is quite a derogatory term. Wouldn't "psychiatric hospital" be more appropriate? -- sannse 15:51 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

Whilst recognising that there are many problems with psychiatric care in the UK I feel this article jumps in too quickly with criticism. I think it needs to begin by laying out an NPOV definition of what they are supposed to achieve and policy etc, and then discuss criticism later in the article. And I speak as someone who has seen how poor the services can be. I'm going to list this on articles needing attention --bodnotbod 11:23, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

I have a relative that had spent a few weeks in a mental hospital last year. It saved his life, if he had not gone he would have died. As a result, we got to see a psych ward from the inside when visiting him. It was most certainly not a jail. The staff did much to make sure that those in the ward were comfortable, had their needs attended to, and those there got better quickly. As good as that ward was for him, I know of some other wards in the state that aren't very good, and I wouldn't wish those wards on anyone.

172.209.224.1 02:08, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I corrected an error in the section on mental hospitals for the criminally insane. Personality disorders are most emphatically *not* what Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity (NGI) pleas and hospital commitments are usually based on; personality disorders are rarely considered to be a valid legal defense, whereas psychotic illnesses and, in some causes, severe anxiety-related illnesses are. This is why serial killers (considered to be a specific subtype of sociopath) go to prison, not to the hospital. At least, this is all the case in the USA. Whooper 00:09, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Crucial omission
This article should also talk about using P.H. for forceful treatment of political prisoners in the Soviet bloc countries and possibly others (Saddam?). See Vladimir Bukovsky. &larr;Humus sapiens&larr;Talk 09:11, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * It also does not talk about these allegations as concerns other, Western countries, in particular the United States, and the role of the Secret Service in the openly-acknowledged use of these hospitals (despite no allegation that they are necessarily mentally ill) against those it deems a threat to protectees. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

History
Okay, I typed up some "history". Please take a look at it and edit it as you see fit, especially if you think I've gotten something wrong -- I'm just doing this from memory (mostly), and most of my experience is with the development of the mental hospital as it proceeds in California through the 19th and 20th centuries -- so I might be wrong about the national picture, and I might be totally off about the world picture. But I figured if I threw out some things, maybe people would latch on and take it somewhere new... --Fastfission 23:45, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

just wondering...
'''Hello,

I was just wondering about these mental hospital things... I think I may belong in one... but I don't want my parents knowing right away... is there any application thing I can fill in? somewhere in montreal would be nice... anyways, please e-mail me back at: cool_ginger@hotmail.com Thank you,

"Angel Night"'''

answer
If you are feeling suicidal or psychotic, you can go to an emergency room. If you have a counselor, therapist, or psychiatrist, it would be best to talk to that person about it.

Some noteworthy points
I think what would also belong in this article, that is that some patients of mental wards (such hospitals) often receive psychopharmaca, ie. mind-altering drugs. While the more "reasonable' of suchdrugs simply "level out" emotions, the stronger ones may turn patients into "a vegetable"...

Perhaps it would be worth mentioning such things... 213.200.248.36

I've been to a mental ward 4 times. And yes, it is boring, on the other hand, it gets way out of hand, people go screaming, people try to choke you (ive had this happen before) people throw glass at each other, its pretty bad.

Ive been to a mental hospital, and yes it is boring, but it is also can be pretty violent. I've seen people try to strangle me, throw glass at me, even kill me.

Ive been to a mental hospital, and yes it is boring, but it is also can be pretty violent. I've seen people try to strangle me, throw glass at me, even kill me. 70.176.219.169 08:18, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I've been to a psychiatric ward (4 times). Although it is very boring, and sometimes quiet, is is most certainly far from 'quiet'. I've had people try to choke me, people who took Acid and hallucainted, people throw glass at me, people open up the fridge (which they arent supposed to) and chuck a glass bottle at other patients, etc. It is very misleading.

Also, in most (i've been to 4, in different states) ive been to you do NOT get to wear ordinary clothes. Because they may contain strings or other stuff like that. They are very sensitive to this. They also take off your shoes, due to shoe strings.

I'd edit it, but I don't know how. If no one edits it, I'll try my best too. Because it is not very accurate. Just reading the history section, it is boring. Very boring. I'm sure it's more fun than prison though.

In the last one I went to, there was an 'evaulation' period for 2 days to see if you were fit to stay there. If you weren't, then they kept you there for at least 2 weeks. In the one I went to (all of them, actually) there were no 'guards'. Especially not by every window. However, where there were windows, it was interesting that they'd not let us get near them.

There were guards, however, at all times, if there was a juvenile from a juvenile hall prison.

There were alot of security checks for the doors. The first one, which was in las vegas, had infared lasers. They also, oh my god, had the best food. The buttered noodles were awesome. It's now my favorite food. The last one, they locked the door at all times. There was a square area of tape which you could not step in. Some kids tried to escape but they got chased down by a really fast psychiatric hospital.

The adult one could've been different though. Because I was 17 at the time, I was in the juvenile one (for minors)

70.176.219.169

Voluntary discharge from psychiatric institutions
Please note that at least as of the 1970s, discharge at will after being voluntarily committed was not as easy as the article leads one to believe. Zimbardo: Shyness tells us of an experiment in which a colleague of his got various people to have themselves voluntarily committed to psychiatric hospitals to see how long it took for them to be detected as normal and discharged. The answer turned out to be forever. Getting back out took assistance from friends or lawyers.


 * I did not edit that particular paragraph, but, speaking as someone who works in a medium-term psychiatric unit, I can confirm that the article is correct in this respect, at least it is consistent with practise here in the United Kingdom. Obviously, I am not able to comment on the procedures used by other trusts, countries or decades. Although I should point out that if a voluntary patient attempts to discharge themselves, i.e. walk out of the hospital, emergency section powers may be used if it is believed that there is a serious threat of the patient harming themself or others. Rje 15:34, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * In my experience, anyone who voluntarily admitted themselves could ask to be signed out at any time-however, there was a procedure to go through. If you want to leave, you have to see the head psychiatrist/doctor/whoever within 24 hours of submitting your request, and then they make sure you are fit to leave.  If not, they can hold you, but the specifics of how long the hold you varies from state to state, at least in the U.S. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.124.0.178 (talk) 03:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

History of psychiatric hospitals
History of mental hospitals? --user:Daniel C. Boyer

Something more might be said about behaviorist psychiatric techniques, especially shaping behavior using (mainly positive) reinforcement. See H. J. Eysenck: Psychology Is About People, Ch. 3: Behaviourist technologies in psychiatry and education (Pelican Books, 1977); and T. Ayllon and N. Azrin: The Token Economy (Appleton-Century-Crofts, 1968).

I am not sure what question Daniel C. Boyer is asking, it may relate to a much earlier period when the article appears to have been called mental hospitals in which cae he might consider deleting it now.

I would like to raise the question "As the section on the History of psychiatric hospitals is now quite large and the whole article is becoming very large is it time for the History to be moved to its own page with a link form this page on current psychiatric hospitals? DonBarton 00:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Wondering..
i saw this on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_hospital#Geriatric_wards and didn't think it was right (maybe it is but i REALY doubt it): "Geriatric wards are designed to help treat older adult patients. The staff of these wards are specially trained suck penises to deal with older patients."

i found that it was recently edited, i changed it back to how it was before the edit. i am not that used to wikipedia, so i do not know how to block a user. if someone could block the user that changed it to the "especially trained to suck...", that would be greatly appreciated. thank you.

the user is: User:71.126.4.88

I'm just guessing here, but that might be the same guy who added,"...and somethimes get mistaken as labor animals and get put in stables". (Removed by DF, who doesn't remember her log in, or how to sign edits.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.229.122.35 (talk) 03:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC) Staff are specially trained to recognise and help elderly people whose psychiatric disorders can even be caused by constipation. But the main reason for elderly psychiatric care is to remove elderly people who may be frail from the violence and aggression that sometimes occurs on adult wards.


 * I would also surmise that such wards exist because elderly patients can have many non-psychiatric medical problems that a ward for general adults is not equipped to handle. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.124.0.178 (talk) 03:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

List
I suspect this article should not list every mental hospital worldwide. Therefore, I'm removing the list that was slowly growing here:


 * McLean Hospital, an institution in Belmont, Massachusetts; the world's largest private psychiatric research centre in a hospital setting.
 * Hanwell Asylum, West London, UK. The first purpose built psychaitric hospital in the UK (opened in 1831)and the largest in the UK (3800 beds by the 1940s). Sometimes said to be the largest in the world (unless you know different). Still in operation and serving a population of around 2 million.
 * Broadmoor Hospital, a hospital in Crowthorne, Berkshire, UK; the most famous institution in the country of those responsible for the care of patients formerly referred to as the 'criminally insane.'
 * St. Elizabeths Hospital, in Washington, DC, which was the first large scale, federally-funded mental hospital in the United States. Still in operation, serving approximately 600 consumers.
 * State Hospital for Scotland and Northern Ireland, Carstairs, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
 * The Sheppard and Enoch Pratt Hospital, an institution in Baltimore, Maryland.
 * Royal Earlswood Hospital, a former 'British Idiot and Imbecile' asylum in Redhill, Surrey.
 * Institute of Mental Health, a Singaporean psychiatric hospital.
 * Whitby Psychiatric Hospital, an abandoned hospital in Whitby, Ontario.
 * Danvers State Hospital, in Danvers, Massachusetts.
 * Philadelphia State Hospital, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
 * Traverse City State Hospital, an abandoned hospital in Traverse City, Michigan.

Cheers. JFW | T@lk  19:28, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, good move. A more complete list is at Category:Mental hospitals. All mental hospitals should be listed there by being placed in that category. JonHarder 20:35, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Removed Image Request
I have removed the image request for this article. Psychiatric hospitals are generally non-descript buildings from the outside, and I'm guessing that the requestor isn't after such images anyway. For obvious reasons of patient confidentiality, photography is not allowed in psychiatric hospitals - at least in the UK. Any such image could well lead to legal action being taken against Wikipedia; given how unremarkable the wards are anyway, it is not worth the trouble of obtaining such images. Rje 04:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, if anyone is sincerely that curious, many wards and hospitals have photographs of their facilities on their own webpages, but aside from having a nurses station, patient rooms, etc. I doubt any of them look too terribly similar or noteworthy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.124.0.178 (talk) 03:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

Other names
There are other names for this facility. Some are offensive, but should be included. Among these are:
 * Nut house
 * Funny Farm
 * Ha-Ha Hotel
 * Bonker Barn
 * Crazy house
 * Mad House —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

After all, Wikipedia is NOT censored. 65.173.104.223 23:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Can this be stated in the article ? 65.173.104.223 23:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Were this a whole book on the subject, then perhaps a chapter could included detail such as this. As an encyclopaedic article however, it is too peripheral. There is urgent need for more focused material to bring the the  article up to standard. So, in other words no.  This is not the place for it.  --Aspro 06:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In Fiction?
The article currently has an "In Fiction" section, mentioning only Batman. I could see this list getting way out of hand if we mentioned all (even just notable) places in fiction where a psychiatric hospital is a setting. I think we should remove this section. Thoughts? --Loudsox 01:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Be Bold. Remove it. --WikiCats 13:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * There is something noteworthy about asylums in fiction that ought to be discussed, the fact that they're unerringly depicted as so horrifyingly destructive to the psyche that any sane person who enters one will inevitably become insane. It's a pretty significant claim that I'm sure most people believe in, but it could very well be true, since few people argue that putting an innocent person in prison for years will cause them to acquire the mannerisms of a criminal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 23:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Requiring cleanup
Some subjects have oddly worde/completely nonsensical grammar, and I had to delete Medium term as a type of hospital because it made no sense at all. I feel like this topic could be cleaned up and some of the information lost in the grammar issue reworded and replaced. Funkbomb 18:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Check the edit history -- you'll see that 68.13.76.119 deleted some random chunks of text from the article on October 29. I restored the deleted parts, and removed the Cleanup tag.  Dave6 07:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This article sounds like a sales brochure for psychiatry. "Reports have surfaced that ECT is enjoying increased use" -? I reworded it to "Reports have surfaced that use of ECT is increasing", a much more grammatical phrase. So yes, I strongly agree that this article needs cleanup. Also, this article is not only full of POV phrasings, but also as I have noted with and  tags, this article doesn't have very many citations. It does have gibberish, though.98.234.112.5 (talk) 22:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Definition for Term 'MERE OST' Needed
There doesn't appear to be a definition to explain the term 'MERE OST'. Part of the first sentence - referring to modern psychiatric hospitals - in the section Crisis Stabilization begins, "One MERE OST type is the crisis stabilisation [sic] unit..." What that term means or stands for isn't obvious - at least to me. But, perhaps I overlooked it somewhere. Would someone with knowledge about this please add an explanation/definition placed after the term appears? I think it will be beneficial to anyone coming to the page. True Lucidity 06:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

Mentally retarded
mentally retarded is not an acceptable term! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.205.99.11 (talk) 00:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Source for refs
I found this page, if anyone wants to go through and cite some sources - a lot of it sounds pretty similar. http://www.medhunters.com/articles/historyOfMentalHosps.html Can-Dutch (talk) 16:00, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

In fiction
Should the song "Institutionalized" be in the fiction section? The song ends with the narrator being sent to a mental institution. --S-man (talk) 23:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Re-directs
Am I the only one who finds the re-directs from phrases such as 'loony bin' and 'nut house' incredibly offensive? I don't think that Wikipedia, a supposedly neutral source of information, should be condoning the use of this ignorant, narrow-minded terminology.--Heslopian (talk) 19:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Taiwan
Please don't forget to mention Kai-Suan Psychiatric Hospital in Kaohsiung, Taiwan. I was there. There is a mention by scripps winborne on maps.google.com. --TaylorWW (talk) 07:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Needs a broader scope
This article is not only written from the perspective of a spiteful and/or dissatisfied patient, it's written as though there is absolutely only one kind of psychiatric hospital. There are hundreds of inpatient hospitals for eating disorders, drug addiction (of the psychological variety), suicidal patients, schizophrenics, self-mutilators, even compulsive gamblers in the US alone. It's impossible to generalize this much to the entire concept without abandoning major components of psychiatric medicine. I've begun some minor copyediting to remove some obvious bias (clearly some poor fellow has a fixation on "discharging patients as soon as possible") but I lack much historical expertise on the subject. (History being an area I'm sure could use some work here.) TheMaskedImprover (talk) 01:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Not about History
The first line of this article states that this is not about history but about modern psychiatric hospitals, why then are all three pictures of old historical "bins" rather than modern facilities? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianmurray5 (talk • contribs) 11:20, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Institutionalisation
More detail should be provided regarding the rationale for institutionalisation and how and why institutionalisation was seen as apt solution for the problem of madness.

The Tuke's York retreat, moral treatment should feature here. Also, Foucault, Scull, and later critics of their positions.Freekra (talk) 01:55, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Revision and Reorganisation
I think that this article needs serious revision and total re-organisation and that this should be discussed before new contributions are made.

These is a specific history to the provision of institutions as a solution to the problem of insanity. Despite multiple theses on the subject it is possible to construct an integrated narrative on the subject.

Most histories would begin in the 18th century with an account of the then existent insitutional provision for the insane in jails, workhouses, a few charitable institutions etc. Then deal with the Trade in Lunacy - i.e. the private madhouses.

Following this would be the semi-mythical Pinel moment (striking off the chains) and, more importantly, the York Retreat - the birth of moral treatment - the success of which suggested to reformers that institutionalisation was the solution to the apparent increase in insanity. Asylums (not psychiatric hospitals - they did not exist at this point) were intended to be small-scale curative institutions rather than custodial centres for the chronically insane.

Next begins the era of building public asylums on a national scale - the timing of this differs from region to region but say from the first third to the mid-nineteenth century. These institutions are mostly small in scale holding around 100 patients max. They have moral managers (mostly) rather than medical men running them.

These public institutions increase in size from the latter half of the nineteenth. Slowly they are medicalised (doctors - or alienists - take over their management). The outlook is still optimistic.

From the end of the 19th century these asylum becomes a problematic institution. The notion that madness might be cured falls into abeyance. Therapeutic nihilism sets in. Asylum populations increase. Custodial Era.

Early to mid-twentieth century - voluntary admission is allowed. From the 1930s extreme therapies are introduced.

From anywhere from the 1950s to 1980s (depending on region) decarceration kicks off. Anti-psychiatry and critique of total institutions from about the 1960s. The asylum (mental or psychiatric hospital from about the 1920s) becomes a discredited institution.

Would anyone like to add to, critique, or suggests improvements on such a chronological structure? Freekra (talk) 21:16, 26 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I am thinking: If a reader come to this article they are ‘most’ likely to be expecting an article about modern buildings and their internal organisations etc.
 * Therefore, would it make for a clearer structure if  all the history goes over to History of mental disorders and we can have just the briefest comment here about history or even a disambiguation comment at the top of the page with a wiki-link to the historical stuff. This article on psychiatric hospitals can then concentrate on the current situation on a regional bases without the hassle of weaving a time line through it as well.


 * Even so, the development of psychiatric hospitals, including the competing philosophies,  political pressures, medical discoveries  and so on and so forth,  is  worthy of a separate  article in  itself.  This more detailed history and analysis, could go in (say) a new article entitled Development of psychiatric institutions. A link to this new article can then be placed both here and in the  History of mental disorders. This would also avoid a duplication in this article, about the current criticisms levelled at the modern psych. hospitals.


 * Perhaps the article History of mental disorders should be renamed History of how mental disorders were regarded – a bit wordy but more descriptive of the content.  I don’t feel inclined to dig through books, searching out good references, until we can all see where were going on this.
 * I think we are trying at present, to get one article to cover too broad a topic.--Aspro (talk) 13:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. History of mental disorders is fine though. It will have to be a history of concepts and practices about mental illness rather than a natural history of psychiatric "disease entities" in any case so I don't think the "regarded" bit is necessary. Create a new page called, in my opinion, History of psychiatric institutions rather than "development of ..." where we can paste anything relevant about psych insitutions historically that we have here. Most of that should go into the talk page for the new article in any case - as a lot of it is quite a mess and would need to be sorted through before posting into the new article. Agreed anyway. How long do we have to wait before we can do it? Freekra (talk) 14:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm going to move the physical and drug therapies too. They're mostly historical at this point and have a big impact on asylum populations in the twentieth century. Freekra (talk) 16:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Middle East
Unlike medieval Christian physicians who relied largely on demonological explanations for mental illness and treatment, medieval Muslim physicians and psychologists relied mostly on clinical observations. Such scholars made significant advances to psychiatry and were the first to provide psychotherapy and moral treatment for mentally ill patients, in addition to other forms of treatment such as baths, drug medication, music therapy and occupational therapy.

In the 10th century, the Persian physician Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi (Rhazes) combined psychological methods and physiological explanations to provide treatment to mentally ill patients. His contemporary, the Arab physician Najab ud-din Muhammad, first described a number of mental illnesses such as agitated depression, neurosis, and sexual impotence (Nafkhae Malikholia), psychosis (Kutrib), and mania (Dual-Kulb).

In the 11th century, another Persian physician Avicenna recognized 'physiological psychology' in the treatment of illnesses involving emotions, and developed a system for associating changes in the pulse rate with inner feelings, which is seen as a precursor to the word association test developed by Carl Jung in the 19th century. Avicenna was also an early pioneer of neuropsychiatry, and first described a number of neuropsychiatric conditions such as hallucination, insomnia, mania, nightmare, melancholia, dementia, epilepsy, paralysis, stroke, vertigo and tremor. Freekra (talk) 03:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted the above section, unfortunately, as it has nothing to do with psychiatric institutions. It's a pity because it was actually sourced and well written. I know there were lots of such institutions in areas outside of Europe and America so it would be good if we could actually write about them. Certainly, I know that Egypt has some very old hospitals for the mentally ill, dating back to the 15th century. Freekra (talk) 03:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

"History" section
I've reinstated the "history" section, this time with an extremely brief precis of the entire history of psychiatric institutions article. This is standard Wikipedia house style when a section is refactored out of an overlong article into its own main article. -- The Anome (talk) 02:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I do not think the current history section works at all, as written it is a separate subject and covered more completely elsewhere, for instance what is the point of mentioning historical names of illnesses.


 * I feel that the history section here should perhaps limit itself to the history of treatment leading to the change from large institutions to community services and new smaller local inpatient units followed by the realisation that you still needed some of the big old hospitals and recent growth of new specialised units (for women; adolescents; brain injury; eating disorders; personality disorders; etc.) and new secure units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianmurray5 (talk • contribs) 11:52, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Splitting types into US and UK sections
At the risk of some duplication, I am thinking of splitting the section “Types” into US and UK sub-sections. It is at present, difficult to expand, because  although these types on different sides of the Atlantic are  roughly similar in purpose, there are  differences in both  terminology, detail  and scope. If these were included  in one section it could lead to misunderstandings.--Aspro (talk) 19:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The military psychiatric Hospital
Are there known facts or sources about military psychiatric Hospitals? 84.73.27.207 (talk) 14:42, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

English variation?
We need to determine whether this article is to use American or British English variation. I am especially seeing inconsistency in "ise/ize" suffixes. I have no opinion but would like to see one style selected and the article use it consistently. Joja lozzo  17:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Why do we 'need' too? This is an article of international interested. How would it improved the global readability. Take it from me, these trifles are only of interest to spelling fascists and proof-readers in  banana republics . Even Shakespeare himself, spelt his name six different ways.   Quote: “Attempts to regularize or reform the language, including spelling reform, have usually met with failure.” Ref: English_orthography.--Aspro (talk) 19:25, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

List of Psychiatrics hospitals over the World by size
Hello. Can you write a list of Psychiatrics hospitals over the World by size (number of beds and number of researchers) ? I think that the biggest is fr:Centre hospitalier Sainte-Anne in Paris.--212.194.47.49 (talk) 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi 212.194.47.49! I added your request to Requested articles/Applied arts and sciences/Medicine. However, we are all volunteers here, so there is no guarantee that anybody will create this article. With friendly regards,  Lova Falk     talk   07:14, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Biased statement
In as much as I sympathize with the rationale behind the argument in the statement below from the History section, the context leads me to believe that it is biased. There are probably a number of other reasons that can be cited for the increase in the number of cases, besides the growth of psychiatry.

>>in England at the beginning of the nineteenth century there were, perhaps, a few thousand "lunatics" housed in a variety of disparate institutions but by 1900 that figure had grown to about 100,000. That this growth coincided with the growth of alienism, later known as psychiatry, as a medical specialism is not coincidental.<< Marty55 (talk) 03:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree, one of those reasons was that it was known that there were many people who were mentally ill but for lack of an alternative were placed in the UK workhouses, the building of the county asylums in the England and Wales was specifically to transfer these people into modern caring facilities where they could be looked after. Having moved them you could then count them correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianmurray5 (talk • contribs) 11:31, 5 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I've added a Maintenance Template for Neutrality because of this and a few other reasons. While I agree with the person responsible for the arguments against Psychiatric Hospitals, the tone doesn't suit a Wikipedia article Sparechair (talk) 13:19, 7 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Phrasing has long since been changed. I also did a minor edit. Removed the tag subsequently. MartinezMD (talk) 00:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Abuse and neglect
I have been reading through this article and stumbled upon the following:

"In 2009, a visitor at the Philhaven psychiatric ward reported a patient walking slowly and moaning. She said when the staff picked her up, she looked starved. Two other patients were given straight jackets and berated, pushed. Another visitor reported one staff member calling his autistic child an animal[,] picked [it] up and drugged [it]. Another patient, who is currently writing this section, was subjected head-banging starvation, and loss of visitation rights. He was quickly refed, hydrated and discharged. Despite telling his parents, they didn't listen. The staff made the head-banging look like he was doing it, allaying suspicion. During his stay, he witnessed a 12 year old girl,[sic] die right beside him.

The author of this section wants the world to know so much about his experiences, he decided to write them on Wikipedia. To this day, his parents won't let him tell anyone about it."

I could go into how it doesn't meet the formal standards for a Wikipedia article, but I think this is quite a solid case of WP:NOTRELIABLE, however much it pains me. I understand that the person who wrote this article feels like his story should be shared with the world, (and personally I agree), but I don't think Wikipedia is the right platform to do this. If the author feels like his story could be shared with the world, I would be more than willing to help him (my talk page is right here), but unfortunately it does not befit a Wikipedia article.

If there is no opposition to this, I will remove the section. AnnaOurLittleAlice (talk) 05:24, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 7 July 2018

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. There is a clear absence of a consensus for the proposed move. bd2412 T 03:10, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Psychiatric hospital → Psychiatric institution – Consistent with History of psychiatric institutions. 73.100.199.220 (talk) 14:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME based on this Google Ngram comparison. Probably should instead move that History article. -- Netoholic @ 08:31, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * There was a recent move request on History of psychiatric institutions. It was closed without a consensus to move the page. --73.100.199.220 (talk) 21:25, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Mental hospital per WP:COMMONNAME based on this expanded Google Ngram that shows it as the dominant term in the modern age. Based on this same Ngram, I've submitted a move request of History of psychiatric institutions to lunatic asylum as well, to properly scope both articles. -- Netoholic @  03:10, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * But that NGRAM only goes up to 2008, so it a decade out of date. jamacfarlane (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose. The term "institution" is outdated. "Psychiatric hospital" is used by the NHS in the UK NHS and there are 18 times more peer reviewed academic journals using "psychiatric hospital" than "psychiatric institution". jamacfarlane (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose For the reasons cited by Jamacfarlane. Anywikiuser (talk) 13:52, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 17 July 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. At this time there is strong opposition to the proposal rooted in interpretation of WP:NCMED and scientific usage. There is a fair amount of "I don't like it" going on, but there is also some more rational argument showing there is no strong evidence to why the move is preferable, and there is evidence that the existing title is in fact the most common in reliable scientific sources as opposed an unfiltered google count. (non-admin closure) &mdash; Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 18:10, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Psychiatric hospital → Mental hospital – Per WP:COMMONNAME based on this Google Ngram that shows it as the dominant term in the modern age. -- Netoholic @ 09:59, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per the move request above. Natureium (talk) 11:50, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose encyclopedia. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:31, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * What does this mean?? Natureium (talk) 22:42, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It means this is an encyclopedia, has to use neutral and respectable language. The proposal is not much short of "nutfarm". Besides the ngram actually showing the two variants of psychiatric having demolished "mental hospital" In ictu oculi (talk) 23:12, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It does? Here is a version from 2000-2008 with all the "psychiatric" phrases combined, and "mental hospital + mental hospitals" still comes out on top. (I have no opinion on this move at the moment.) ♫ ekips39 (talk) ❀ 00:25, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * By the way in response to the concern raised in the above section, it doesn't seem to be possible to make it go beyond 2008. They must not have any data beyond that point. ♫ ekips39 (talk) ❀ 19:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Mental hospital" is an outdated (and to some, offensive) term. I don't see how a n-gram showing its popularity between 1940 and 2000 makes it the dominant term in the modern age. There was a move request for this same article closed only this morning and no consensus to move from "psychiatric hospital". Per WP:NCMED, "the article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded". I've searched The BMJ for research articles published in the last 10 years which have these terms in the title or abstract. "Mental hospital" has 4 results and "psychiatric hospital" has 18 results. I ran a Google search of NHS websites, although I recognise this is by no means a completely reliable indicator. "Mental hospital" has 1,010 results and "psychiatric hospital" has 6,010 results. If you have further evidence "mental hospital" is the dominant term I am happy to reconsider my view, but I am really skeptical at present. jamacfarlane (talk) 21:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * 1800-2008, actually. Even looser definition of "modern age". ♫ ekips39 (talk) ❀ 00:30, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Support as I think this is the WP:COMMONNAME, and I disagree that it is in any way offensive. Are Mental health professional, Mental health, and Mental disorder offensive too? I don't think so. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:52, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose dated, and seen as offensive. Not been used for these establishments for many years. Secretlondon (talk) 13:59, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Strongly Oppose The move would be incompatible with the scientific literature, which almost universally uses the term "psychiatric hospital" or "psychiatric institution". The term "Mental Hospital" is also considered to be extremely offensive within the psychiatric community as a whole. 71.91.178.54 (talk) 10:32, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That's not based on any evidence, and frankly sounds more like a pretentious assumption. But Wikipedia goes by, not what something is called only in scientific circles, but what it is most commonly known as among all reliable sources. -- Netoholic @ 06:32, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Netoholic, that's true for most articles, but not medical-related ones. For example, heart attack redirects to myocardial infarction, even though most people would call it a "heart attack". Per WP:NCMED, "the article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded". jamacfarlane (talk) 09:31, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Just because its a term related to medicine doesn't make it a "scientific or recognised medical name" like one would find related to diseases or anatomy. The scientific literature is about equally mixed (43% vs 57%) between usage of "mental hospital" (265k) and "psychiatric hospital" (351k). It is far from "dominant" use one would expect if it was actually a "scientific or recognised medical name".  Second, where a local guideline WP:NCMED conflicts with broader policy like WP:Article titles, the policy supercedes and common use among any reliable, secondary sources is used - a stat which is demonstrated by the Google Ngram link in the first post. What I think is that non-medical editors think that "psychiatric hospital" sounds more professional, and guess that its used more than the evidence shows.... and they are forgetting that this article isn't for medical professionals, but a general topic, and so is not appropriate to use elevated jargon over the common name. -- Netoholic @  10:27, 24 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

al-Walid's hospital
Hi all,

It seems like this particular section ("psychiatric hospital was built by the Muslims in Baghdad in 705 AD, under the leadership of the Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid ibn Abd al-Malik") is a result of some confusion. The source in this article names its own source as Youssef & Youssef ("Evidence for the existence of schizophrenia in medieval Islamic society"), which does not actually claim that anywhere. Anyway, the supposed hospital was in Damascus, not Baghdad, and it was actually just a leper house (Development of Hospitals in Islam, Sami Hamarneh: "careful examination of a much earlier and more reliable source, the history of al-Tabari (d 923), shows that al-Walid's generous act of helping the sick was mainly a philanthropic decree to aid the blind and the disabled and to establish separate quarters wherein lepers could be confined to prevent the spread of the disease.") The confusion with Baghdad is probably due to a later hospital built there under the caliph Harun al-Rashid.

Just figured I'd mention that in case anyone happens to come across the same claim on other pages (see WP: Jagged 85 cleanup). Dragoon17 (talk) 06:40, 26 August 2018 (UTC)