Talk:Public Enemy/Archive 1

Bigotry
This article is not neutral. It discusses the postivie impact they had within the Black community but fails to mention the anti-Jewish and homophobic ("Meet The G That Killed Me") attitudes. As much as fans will dislike these inclusions, and probably fight them, they must be included for neutrality and a bigger picture. Tim010987 (talk) 06:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Overhaul
To whoever made this page beforehand, I overhauled it simply because it was no way near enough for such a culturally, and musically important group such as Public Enemy. While my page may not be perfect yet, and others can add more, I think it needed reworking. Judge for yourself


 * - Knucmo 20:41 UTC

This is one of the worst articles I have ever seen on wikipedia. Needs a total rewrite. -J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.184.90.4 (talk) 00:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I think that this is an excellent article.

As someone who was born in '76, graduated High school in '94. The primary image speakes more to people who have followed the group from the latter years. I would rather like to see an earlier picture with the "bullsie" picture. Like this:

http://www.soulincode.com/images/public_enemy.gif

I think that encapsulates Public Enemy.

76.14.33.140 (talk) 10:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Issues raised by bneely
I am not knowledgeable about Public Enemy. After reading this page in its current form, I noticed some issues that someone more knowledgeable about the group probably would have to answer:
 * (second "history" paragraph) I see the section labeled "Controversy", but the second history paragraph begins like this: "...Public Enemy were controversial yet pioneering...For instance,". Then the paragraph discusses some of the pioneering issues, while leaving the controversial issues to a separate section.  I feel like the sentence saying "controversial yet pioneering" creates a reader expectation that both angles will be discussed in the paragraph.
 * (second "history" paragraph) When did Public Enemy begin releasing MP3 albums? Since they pioneered this among well-known artists, adding the year of the first MP3 release would be a good data point.
 * (origin of name) Is a date available for when Chuck D released this tape? It sounds like this happened before Public Enemy formed as a group, but adding a date would further reinforce that.
 * Is Chuck D considered the leader of the group? What roles (vocals, DJing, writing, etc.) does each member perform?
 * Information on how the group members met would be interesting too.

I'm not trying to be a pest, just trying to help improve this article. Thanks! bneely 08:24, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your suggestions. I tried to provied information in response to them where I could. I could not find a definate date on the PE single in my sources though I gave a little more information about it to clearify the nature of the single. I added what I could about the roles of the members. The book Fight the Power can be used as a source to describe how the members got together but I don't have the time right now to go through it all again to assemble a concise recounting of their coming together. Hopefully somebody can fill in the holes I've left.

Image problem
Now that Adric has "fixed the image problem" I can't discern any difference with the skin that I use. For the default skin, there is now a bit more white space around the image. Is there a problem that doesn't affect me, but that I should help articles to avoid, or is the problem only a deficiency of white space? Tim Ivorson 10:38, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah well I am not sure if I really fixed the image problem but I used the standard skin and could not see the image. I changed some of the text formating. I am still. Unshore of the efects on other skins. --Adric 11:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I didn't notice that. I wonder whether other articles are affected. Tim Ivorson 10:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pictures of members
Where are the picture of the group members? How about small pictures next to the names in the members section or a big picture with all the members?
 * Why not add some yourself. Go here to learn the syntax (anybody can do it). Try to find promo images are anything thats in the public domain to keep things nice and legal. Use the "Upload file" link to the right of this page to upload a picture. Also, when posting to a discussion board type ~ at the end of you writing so your username and edit time will show. Like so: TimMony 05:10, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Influence on Rock/Rap Fusion?
The idea that the Anthrax/Public Enemy combination was the first is incorrect as Aerosmith/Run DMC did this in 1986.

04:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC) : Not to mention the Red Hot Chili Peppers/Red Hot Chili Peppers combination, which began in 1984. Or P-Funk who began sometime during the Ordovician Era :-) (User:TimothyHorrigan)

Same about other fusion Bands also found on Wikipedia like 24-7 Spyz and Mother's Finest.

Um... I'm pretty sure run-dmc made rock/rap fusion because of their rockin and their rhyming lyrics

Ice-T was doing it in 91 as well and there were any number of hardcore punk records from 86 to 90 with rock/rap. Someone needs to fix this...

"First" for mp3 albums?
I think we need some verification or citation or something that Public Enemy were the "first" to release mp3 albums, because I'm pretty sure David Bowie did it before them, and They Might Be Giants did before Bowie. If no such information can be provided, it should be changed to "among the first" or something like that. - Ugliness Man 07:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC) Changed it. If you can think of a better wording feel free.Jasontheperson 17:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of Name
Public Enemy's lyrics and song titles make frequent reference to the Black Panther Party. My instinct tells me that "Chuck D" Ridenour was well aware that J. Edgar Hoover had declared the Panthers "Public Enemy Number One" and thus named his rap group as an homage to the Party's outlaw status within the white establishment (and not simply because he felt "persecuted in the local scene" as the article currently indicates). However, I have been unable to corroborate this; if anyone has seen a statement from a member of Public Enemy to this effect, I would appreciate seeing it. Vogelfrei 17:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Changes should be made to this page, under the origin of name section it says:

"Public Enemy is also the name of one of the first film noir gangster movies, a 1931 classic starring James Cagney."

This information in incorrect. Technically, Public Enemy is not film noir, it is a gangster film. And it is certainly not the first film noir. The film noir genre is widely thought to have started with John Huston's The Maltese Falcon in 1941. Public Enemy in no way has any of the elements of the film noir genre. Although film noir clearly has elements of the gangster genre.

racism
Since they are related to NOI, does that mean that they hate all white people? Professor Griff for example raps in "pawns of the game" something about the total anahilation of the white race (at least, that is what i think he meant). He was and now is again a member of the group. So what are the religious und political ideas of the group? Are they racist and/or antisemitic?


 * If you check out information on the current state of NOI, they do accept white people into their religion, although they didn't use to. This corresponded to the laws which Malcolm X discusses in his autobiography, particularly in the chapter titled "1965" which discusses how African-Americans were not allowed in white churches at that time.  After the honorable Elijah Muhammad died his son changed the religion significantly.  And let it be known: no Muslim can be anti-Semitic because the prophet Muhammad was himself Semitic as are almost all Arabs.  Many Muslims are critical of the imperialist forms of Zionism which are popular in the West.  This was well documented by the Palestinian writer/activist one time Christian Edward Said in his trilogy: Orientalism; The Question of Palestine; Covering Islam.  He discusses how the imperialist forms of Zionism which have prevailed are of European origin and were aided by the English Balfour Decleration and the whole European tradition of Orientalism.  Oh, and don't forget oil-interests -we need a base in the middle east.  Check it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.68.22.207 (talk) 08:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Oh yeah, and they have recorded and performed with the heavy metal band Anthrax on many occassions. Listen to their lyrics on "Bring the Noise" and they praise several white people: Sonny Bono, Yoko Ono (okay, she's not white), etc... Teetotaler

legacy
The second paragraph has major problems. I think it is not accurate to say that because of PE's success "hip-hop was suddenly flooded with new artists that celebrated Afrocentric themes, such as Kool Moe Dee, Gang Starr, X Clan, Eric B & Rakim, Queen Latifah, the Jungle Brothers and A Tribe Called Quest." Out of that list, only the JBs and TCQ were overtly Afrocentric. Also, KMD, Eric B & Rakim's fame in the NYC rap scene came before PE really broke the surface. As I remember NYC at that time, the Afrocentric thing was everywhere, so I'm not sure its correct to credit PE with this. My opinion alone would be Original Research, but I'm going to tag this as Fact to see if its the writers opinion or where it came from.


 * its fluff, needs to be taken out. -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  06:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

member box
why not just give the musicians alias and music role, all other info should be available on the seperate artist pages. -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  06:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Beats and Places
Made some WP:BOLD edits which turned out to be wrong. Beats and places the album was released on November 5th 2005 and the audio CD followed 28th november 2006  Intinn Talk! 16:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Discography
Is the discography complete? I went to PE.com and found this. Coz looking at the discography not all are included... I might be wrong coz you guys might wanna only include "notable" albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parradudes (talk • contribs) 04:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Name
Moved Public Enemy (band) to Public Enemy per name convention. West Coast Ryda 19:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Take a look at this WP:Use common names and for the other uses it can be spelled as Public enemy (disambiguation). West Coast Ryda 19:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Requested move
Public Enemy (band) → Public Enemy — revert warring at the main entry, let's discuss it —Ewlyahoocom 03:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support The band is what most readers would expect at the uppercase title. Ewlyahoocom 03:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Within the law enforcement article Public enemy, the phrase is shown in lowercase 4 times and uppercase 9 times (not counting the name of a film). I think both Public enemy and Public Enemy should link to the same page — my suggestion would be a disambiguation page per Disambiguation, which says "'Term xyz', 'Term Xyz', 'Term X-Y-Z', and 'Term X.Y.Z.' should all redirect to one page." — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 06:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe the guideline you refer to is specifically about disambiguation pages: "Usually, there should be just one disambiguation page for all cases (upper- or lower-case) and variant punctuation." However, may I refer you to Naming conventions (precision)? Ewlyahoocom 07:19, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The key question is, When a reader enters this term and pushes "Go", what article would they realistically be expecting to view as a result? (at the page you linked to). I think many readers think of Al Capone as a "Public Enemy" and not a "Public enemy", and I think the lopsided use of the capitalized phrase "Public Enemy" at the Public enemy article supports my thinking. Or maybe not. That's why I made a comment, not a Support or Oppose "vote". — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 07:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - WP:NC(P) reccommends adding brackets to distinguish two different meanings with the same spelling, but only different by being common/proper nouns. Reginmund 16:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Support just like Ice Cube, Nas this one should be using the same thing. If Public Enemy links to this page then why not move it to Public Enemy as it would be sense-less. West Coast - Ryda 20:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. And Public Enemy should redirect to public enemy.  If there is a good case for then moving public enemy to public enemy (term) and public enemy (disambiguation) to public enemy, fine. —   AjaxSmack   02:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I agree that Public Enemy should redirect to Public enemy. There is also the point that people could be looking for the tag team named Public Enemy as well (technically "The Public Enemy", but still). TJ Spyke 01:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose it should redirect to public enemy 132.205.99.122 20:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Support per Ewlyahoocom and West Coast Ryda. (Ibaranoff24 04:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC))
 * Oppose because the argument "The band is what most readers would expect [...]" is not backed up. &mdash; Sebastian 07:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment — If you search on Google (or a similar site) for "public enemy", most of the results will be about the band. (Ibaranoff24 21:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC))

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Also note that there is a Korean film called Public Enemy. The band and the film should be evenly treated, at least at the disambiguation page. Reginmund 22:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

A good solution would be for Public Enemy to redirect to public enemy. Then move public enemy to public enemy (term) and public enemy (disambiguation) to public enemy. This would reduce the number of clicks for those seeking the band, the movie, the term, and anything else. —  AjaxSmack   02:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The band is more notable. A big icon in hip hop while what are the notablity with terms? West Coast - Ryda 16:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe to fans of hip hop music, the band is more notable but to film buffs, the film is and the band is most likely obsolete. They should both be treated with the same emphasis. Reginmund 22:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No, to a wider proportion of WP's readership in general. Public Enemy (the group) are considerably better-known than a 2002 Korean film. This shouldn't be hard to prove. Chris Cunningham 09:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Then if it isn't so hard, prove it. Reginmund 00:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Nas is the name of the rappers page. I think we should do the same here. I mean his name is not "Nas (rapper)" or like that. So for me Public Enemy should redirect to the band's page. And compare the two A 2002 Film and an old school band active since 1982. West Coast - Ryda 11:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The only other article with the title "Nas" is a Greek village with one source and an article with a single sentence. Everything else is an acronym. However, "Public Enemy" may not only mean the band of course, but primarily refers to a dangerous criminal along with other uses. Reginmund 00:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Re the band and the film: I have never heard of either. To most people a Public Enemy is a public enemy. Best be neutral and let Public Enemy redirect to Public enemy and let Public enemy be the disambig page. Anthony Appleyard 17:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The band and the film derive their names from the criminal term, so the criminal term should be primary target. 132.205.99.122 21:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
In the member section of this article someone has replaced the entire list with profanity. Can Someone please fix this section with the correct information. Also can someoner report the original IP Adress that submitted this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.96.86.197 (talk) 09:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I just removed some more. I don't where it's coming from but it's lame. Ian.R —Preceding unsigned comment added by IanARichter (talk • contribs) 02:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible ref
Just came across this when doing work on a different article, I haven't read it or this article but someone working on this article might find it useful. &mdash;Politizer talk / contribs 02:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Band Members
Is Brian Hardgroove a member of this group? I just [ http://www.tcelectronic.com/artist.asp?AjrDcmntId=10716googled him], and I think he's the band leader. Is this correct? --Uncle Ed (talk) 14:11, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Uncited opinion

 * Proffesser Griff is now a positive influence in the black community, he exposes the way hip hop has been manipulated to destroy black people's sense of identity

That rings true to me, but maybe I'm biased in favor of these guys, or just hoping to find some good in them. Can you back this up with a source? --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:30, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Short Career
PE's career didn't end in 1992!? This article misses out all the info on PE from the last 20 years! What about their champaign to raise money so they can record a new album? They are currently recording a new album and it is not even mentioned! nor is they new single "Say it like ut really is". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.154.183 (talk) 20:43, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Why...
Why is 15 years of their history missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.142.129 (talk) 22:07, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Awards
Unfortunately the artist is only the receipient of a Grammy for Remixing if they participated in the actual remixing. So they did not win in 2008 for "Bring the Noise." Here's the Grammy reference. http://www.grammy.com/nominees/search?artist=&title=bring+the+noise&year=All&genre=All — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xffactor (talk • contribs) 18:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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odd redirect
Isn't it a bit strange to redirect Nothing is Quick in the Desert back to this page? It's very weird when clicking on it here, and it makes it harder for regular folk to actually add info to an article on it. Huw Powell (talk) 06:00, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Opening implies that Professor Griff is still in the band
As far as I can tell (and I'm not confident enough of this to change the article myself), Professor Griff left the group early on after his various anti-Semitic comments. The article currently says the group is current and lists Griff as a member. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevintimba (talk • contribs) 19:14, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Contradictory status of Flavor Flav
The article contradicts itself. The infobox lists Flavor Flav as a former member but the Band Members section lists him as a current member. Conflicting statements from Chuck D and Flavor Flav in early April make it unclear which of these is correct (eg. Chuck D said he's currently (April 2020) working with Flavor Flav on a new Public Enemy album to be released in June 2020. This is mentioned in this Pitchfork article, among others).

It definitely should be revisited once there's a definitive answer, but what should it say in the meantime? --WarEqualsPeace (talk) 15:02, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Since he was in State of the Union (STFU), can we safely say he's back in? 2601:14B:C280:4910:41F5:8C87:A4AA:75AD (talk) 22:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)