Talk:RMS Lancastria

PHOTO?
Anybody have a photo they can post of the ship? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ragemanchoo (talk • contribs) 11:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Coordinates?
Anyone know the coordinates of the wreck site? It would be good to add to the article. --24.21.148.212 (talk) 06:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Casualties on HMT Lancastria
From the most recent and comprehensive account of the British withdrawal from France in 1940 written by Hugh Sebag Montefiore the most accurate estimates of the total number of persons on the Lancastria when it was attacked is quoted as around 6,700. The estimates come survivors who overheard conversations between crew members and military personnel on board. There were approximately 2,200 survivors so the death toll would be approximately 3,500. No definite figure has ever been established due to the fact that no roll was taken due to the urgency of the situation and the figures quoted by Montefiore are probably the most accurate we are ever going to get. Notwithstanding this evidence it is still the most costly marine catastrophe in British naval history. Al the jazz (talk) 22:46, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Link
Lancastria: Britain's forgotten disaster (BBC News - Today programme 2 July 2010) Nanonic (talk) 13:30, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You might be interested in this too: The Sinking of the Lancastria - streaming audio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.69.227 (talk) 21:50, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Re-write
This article could do with a major re-write; at the moment, from the 'Remembrance' section onwards, one could be forgiven for thinking that a very large proportion of the victims were Scots, as 'undue weight' is devoted to Scotsmen and all things Scottish (i.e. about half of the article). As the article itself says, about 400 from the most commonly mentioned figure of 4,000 were from north of the border. Indeed, there might be enough material for a new article: Scottish victims of the sinking of the RMS Lancastria. It could do with an update as well, as it mentions 'will in July 2010...' RASAM (talk) 23:14, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

D notice
"The immense loss of life was such that the British government banned any public announcements of the disaster through the D-Notice system, but the story was broken by the New York Times and The Scotsman newspapers on 26 July. The British press did then cover the story, including front pages of the Daily Herald (also on 26 July) and Sunday Express on 4 August." This extract appears in 'The sinking and its aftermath' section, para 5.

If I've understood it correctly, The Scotsman, a British newspaper, published the story despite the D notice. If that was not the case, then it should be made clear what happened. (Maybe they published just after the New York Times).

RASAM (talk) 16:37, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

In the current system, at least, the D-Notice system is used to request that stories are not published, rather than ban their publication. Perhaps it should be confirmed whether the source being used is accurate.    ←   ZScarpia  14:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

From the Web
Information on the Web:

Funtrivia.com: Britain's Worst Maritime Disaster:

''Thirty German Dornier Do17 bombers attacked the 'Lancastria'. ... Sharp rushed to the bridge, reaching the wheelhouse as four high-explosive bombs bracketed his ship. With the deck reeling beneath his feet he knew that Lancastria had taken vital blows. In fact two bombs had each passed through the deck planking and detonated inside the hull (one hit number 2 cargo hold, packed with at least 800 RAF men, the other smashed through number 3 hold releasing gallons of fuel oil into the water), while a third had struck the decisive blow. Falling directly down the huge funnel it had exploded in the engine room. A fourth missed the ship by mere metres, but still contained enough power to hole the liner below her port waterline and the effects were as bad as a direct hit.''

The National Archives - Forgotten tragedy: The loss of HMT Lancastria:

''Really the beginning of the end for the Lancastria was heralded with the fall of France in May 1940. The German army launched its Blitzkrieg offensive on France and the Low Countries on 10 May 1940. At the time this operation was going on, Lancastria was actually being readied to take part in Operation Alabaster, and that was the operation, basically, to man and defend certain Icelandic bases, and her role was to carry 2,000 troops up to Iceland, so she was nowhere near France at the time. ...''

''... Well, by this time she'd moved from Iceland to Norway and was evacuating troops from Norway, from Harstad. She evacuated 2,600 troops, and suffered a very near miss from German bombers, and at the time, her crew thought that she was very overloaded. ...''

''... So the Lancastria actually found herself in a race against time to get troops out of France. ... The Lancastria was at anchor in Charpentier Roads which was about five miles away from land, so those going aboard Lancastria had to be taken there by smaller craft. ...''

''... At 3:45, the ship's ARP alarm was sounded, and a JU 88, of the Kampf geschwader dreizig gruppe zwei piloted by Peter Stahl flew over the Lancastria and dropped four bombs, all of which hit the Lancastria with fatal consequences. As I say, she was hit by all four bombs. Captain Sharp claims in his report that one bomb went down the funnel, and the others hit hatches four, three and two. The funnel bomb didn't actually fall down the funnel; it fell very, very close to the funnel, but nonetheless, the ship couldn't have been hit in any worse places. ...''

''... In addition the rescue craft were being machine gunned as well, and flares from the lifeboats, designed to go off when they hit sea water, were setting light to the fuel oil and causing fires and thick smoke. ...''

''... I was surrounded by men in similar condition, and even when our own aircraft flew over and dropped rafts for us we were too weak to struggle to them. ...''

''... However, one of the most controversial aspects of the sinking of the Lancastria was the alleged cover up of the facts by Churchill's Government. As soon as news reached the Cabinet Office about the Lancastria, Winston Churchill issued a 'D' notice on the news, suspending publication about the disaster until the 'D' notice was lifted. ...''

   ←   ZScarpia  16:24, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Literature
There is no reference in this article to the loss of the Lancastria in literature. Alastair MacLean's book, "The Lonely Sea", a collection of short stories, includes several factual stories. One is entitled "Lancastria" and recounts the events leading to and during the loss of the ship, and some details of the aftermath. I suggest it could be included in the article - ?as Pop Culture? Or a new section, Lancastria in Literature? Ptilinopus (talk) 00:36, 31 March 2013 (UTC)


 * See "References in popular culture" section. Alansplodge (talk) 17:00, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

"Official recognition"?
I have renamed a sub-section entitled "Official recognition" which describes the campaign to have a medal issued for the event, and the subsequent issue of one by the Scottish Government. The British Government made it clear that it does not issue medals for specific military events and campaigners have taken this as a denial of "official recognition". This seems to me to be not a neutral point of view since the British Government has not issued a commemorative medal for any other single event in the 20th century, except coronations and jubilees, which are a different matter entirely. However, I have taken care to present this as an opinion, since it is clearly passionately held by campaigners and has been taken-up vociferously by some newspapers, especially in Scotland. My own father was evacuated from St Nazaire on 18 June 1940, the day after the loss of the Lancastria, so I'm not coming at this from an entirely dispassionate standpoint. I welcome any sensible comments that other editors might wish to make. Alansplodge (talk) 16:01, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * There likely never will be a medal, the loss of the Lancastria was due to 'normal' enemy action, and it would be hard to come up with reasons to justify the issuing of one.


 * Just as there likely will never be a medal for the entire Dunkirk Evacuation, as despite the best efforts of the BEF the entire French Campaign was a disaster, besides which, most of the people actually involved will by now be dead. Britain doesn't give medals for evacuations. IIRC, there was never a Campaign Medal for 'France' issued for 1939-40 either, but I may be wrong on that. The same applies to the Greek Campaign and the Battle of Crete both of which also ended in evacuations.


 * FWIW, there is nothing stopping people who feel strongly about the matter commissioning their own medal privately, and having them produced, they can then be given to anyone the wish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.115.110 (talk) 08:38, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

I can confirm one thing as I have years ago on the Lancastria site
My fathers first posting in Squadron 252 (Beaufighters) was to France. Due to circumstance he was left behind encroaching enemy lines. Missing Dunkirk evacuation he made way (suffering shrapnel in shoulder by straffing of refugees) to St.Nazaire. He remarked on an English army battalion that marched into town in perfect order, the corporal horsed said at ease & they mostly collapsed as wounded from front line. My father George.T.Robson was embarking on Lancastria's sister ship opposite when he watched a Stuka drop an impossible shot/bomb right down it's main funnel. He remembered the awful explosion & sinking within 17 mins. Many of his friends were on the Lancastria. He rarely spoke of the war but this was always crystal clear in memory. Understanding the D notice at the time, this site should really be a war memorial. There are not many witnesses left if at all. Yet the remembrance should be honoured. E.C.D.Robson 92.234.113.22 (talk) 00:07, 27 September 2023 (UTC)