Talk:Raid on Makin Island

Since I got a message from —wwoods, I rechecked my source, Blair's Silent Victory. I thought it was Narwhal; Blair, who I would rely on, correctly says Nautilus, pp.308-9 & 315-6. Trekphiler 00:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC) (I'm always getting them crossed up. Argonaut, too....)

The article presents numbers that create a very confusing picture. "At the time of the Makin raid the total force opposing the American landing consisted of 71 armed personnel""The Japanese...launched two banzai charges, which were wiped out by the Raiders, thus killing most of the Japanese on the island". we now have at least 165 raiders from an initial force of almost 200 (since later 93 made it to the submarines on the first try, and another 72 on the last try, there were at least 165 in action at this point) facing fewer than 35 japanese. then 8 more japanese, and the commanding officer (warrant officer kanemitsu), are killed. we are now down to perhaps 25 japanese facing at least 165 raiders (the number of raiders who ended up making it off the island in the end). then 93 raiders withdraw to the submarine(s). after losing most of their equipment in the surf, at least 72 raiders, including 20 fully-armed raiders, offer to surrender to the badly-mauled and totally outnumbered japanese survivors. this is incomprehensible. presumably the raiders who lost their equipment could salvage at least somea arms and ammunition from fallen japanese or fallen comrades. and there were still 20 fully-armed raiders facing a roughly equal number of japanese. there is reference to 'the japanese commander' but that individual was killed earlier. all in all this is a highly confusing collection of facts and details that fails to create a coherent narrative and raises more questions than it answers. [i avoid capital letters due to handicapped hands; i'm not trying to make a statement or be rudely sloppy.] — Preceding unsigned comment added by BGD808 (talk • contribs) 04:53, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Updated Some Numbers
This was a little sloppy with numbers and references for Japanese sources. I have used some Japanese sources to confirm and verify the total number of Japanese troops on Butaritari at the time of the raid and total casualities. These numbers are almost certainly correct and are not of the wildly high numbers which Carlson cites... in fact they could not be that high because there were never that many Japanese on the island in the first place. I have, so far, found no Japanese source with casualties outside of garrison members. If I find others in the planes of small boats I will add. I suspect the boat casualities are garrison members and would be included in the 46 killed/mia. If you add two flying boats with flight crew of about 8 members each you will get 62 total Japanese casualties. I suspect this is about the right number... but if and when I can confirm either estimate I will enter it and cite published sources.

I also put in the first name and correct rank of the Japanese commanding Warrant Officer. Sargent Major was incorrect term for this Naval Officer.

The number of Japanese planes is cited at 13, but these were not on Makin Island during the raid and were attached to Tarawa garrison. The Butaritari garrison did not have any direct aircraft attached. So I do not think it is useful to include them in the troop strength attached. Canadaman1 (talk) 19:43, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Offer to surrender
Is it correct that having killed most of a garrison, the American attackers then offered to surrender to the survivors, when they were initially unable to withdraw? That is not consistent with the account in History.com.119.224.100.246 (talk) 22:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * History.com is not always a reliable source. Yes, there was thought of surrender. --Yaush (talk) 16:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

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