Talk:Ralph Merrifield

Accuracy of sources
While I'm only too aware that WP relies principally on secondary sources, I'm prompted to raise some questions about some of the information presented in this article after an exchange of text messages yesterday evening with my sister-in-law, who happens to be Ralph Merrifield's daughter. Among the issues raised by my sister-in-law, there is only one where I think there may be some support in an existing secondary source, but for the rest I suspect such sources are lacking, so you must make of them what you will. I'm also aware that the article is currently undergoing a GA review, but I'm posting this here rather than under the review in the hope that this will not interfere directly with that process. I suspect that the lack of supporting secondary sources – to my knowledge – may give rise to an uncomfortable aspect of "TL;DR" to much of this, but that is another reason for posting it here rather than under the GA review: if it's felt that these observations don't carry enough weight in themselves to prompt changes, perhaps in time secondary sources shall become available, and these observations might provide pointers to possible changes.

The first issue raised by my sister-in-law – after expressing excitement that the article has recently received so much attention – concerns the date of the photograph of Ralph Merrifield, given in the article as "from the 1970s". I see that its "original" source gives a title for the image as "Dr. Ralph Merrifield c. 1970's", and dates it "1970 AD – 1979 AD"; but my sister-in-law tells me that the photograph was taken in the 1980s by her mother, Lysbeth Merrifield, specifically for The Archaeology of Ritual and Magic, which was published in 1987. I see a slight difference between the photograph in this article and the one on the back cover of that book – in the latter, there is slightly less of a smile – but both clearly were taken on the same occasion, given the posture, clothing and lighting. I think some circumstantial support for my sister-in-law's assertion may be found in the blurb below the photograph on the back of that book, which says that Ralph Merrifield "has always – even in retirement – kept in close touch with field archaeologists and current excavations." Of course, he was well into his retirement in 1987 when that book was published, bearing that photograph on the back.

The second issue raised by my sister-in-law concerns Ralph Merrifield's place of birth: she says that her father was not born in Brighton but in Temple Fortune, North London, and that she has his birth certificate to prove it! She is willing to share this, if it might be helpful. When I expressed surprise at this, she responded that this sort of "error" arose "in the national obituaries, [and] so became fact by repetition." Apparently Ralph Merrifield was 2 years old, not 3, when his father died – I'm told that the father's death certificate is also available for inspection – and his mother then took him with her to Brighton, where her parents had a "shoe shop" by an open space in central Brighton known as the Level, to the north of St Peter's Church.

The third issue is much more minor, and concerns Varndean College: according to my sister-in-law, when her father studied there it was called simply the "Municipal School for Boys". He left there in 1930, and two years later, in 1932, its name was changed to "Varndean Municipal Secondary School for Boys": I note from the unreliable source (!) of the WP article for Varndean College that, until 1932, the school had been in York Place, adjacent to St Peter's Church and very near Ralph Merrifield's childhood home by the Level; whereas the change in name coincided with a move to the school's present site, which is about 1.5 mi to the north; further, my sister-in-law informs me that the school only became a grammar school in 1963, while the relevant article states that it became a sixth-form college – hence presumably the name "Varndean College" – in 1975.

I hope that all of this is of some interest at least, recognising that it is probably of limited usefulness for WP as things stand. Midnightblueowl, do let me know if you would like sight of the certificates mentioned above, I believe it can be arranged. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 15:10, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message, Nortonius; it's nice to hear that Merrifield's family members are pleased with the development of the article. Regarding your first point, I believe that this issue may be solved by simply removing the date altogether (so will do so). Similarly, the third issue can be resolved fairly easily by changing the text to read "Municipal School for Boys" while still linking to Varndean College. It is the second issue, however, that poses most problems. While I certainly appreciate the offer, I feel that looking at Merrifield's birth/death records would not actually accomplish anything because it would still be WP:Original Research to use them as sources for this article. That being the case, my suggestion would be that Merrifield's daughter (or someone else) publish a brief note, letter, or article in a Reliable Source (maybe something like London Archaeologist or the Folk-Lore Society Newsletter) in which they laid out the errors of the obituaries; perhaps they could also add further information about Merrifield, such as personal reminiscences. Were such a source to be published, then we certainly could use that as a citation in the article itself. Other than this, I am not really sure what we could actually do here. Best, Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Great, thanks Midnightowl – good to hear back from you. About the first and third issues, I agree with your assessment. About the second, I agree in that I see your assessment regarding WP:OR as in line with the general approach on WP: I've had occasion to discuss relevant policy in the not-too-distant past, but, although I made the offer of sight of the certificates with that in mind, I have absolutely no desire to go over the policy again! :o) However I do now have photographs of the certificates in my possession, and I'd still be happy to share them with you via email for your own information should you be interested, although I'm sure that my sister-in-law would require that, for now, the images be shared strictly for the present purpose. That's just by-the-by, and you needn't respond. About the "errors of the obituaries", I've been thinking along very much the same lines, and only a few minutes before reading your response I sent my sister-in-law an email suggesting that she and I might collaborate on a biographical piece for publication somewhere – I do have somewhere in mind, and she's just responded positively to my suggestion. I'll let you know if or when there's any news of a suitable bio, although obviously that will take some time, probably months. By the way, my sister-in-law informs me that there is a book to be published fairly soon by Ronald Hutton that will touch on Ralph Merrifield's career – something to watch out for in the meantime! Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 14:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * If I could chip in- a basically identical photograph to the one currently used in the article (obviously from the same photoshoot- same shirt and tie) is in the front of Collectanea Londiniensia, which was published in 1978, so it couldn't be from the 1980s. The Brighton claim (as well as the "three years old" claim) is also in Collectanea Londiniensia, so that may be the origin of it. Perhaps this would be worth mentioning to your sister-in-law if she is thinking of publishing some corrections. Josh Milburn (talk) 10:03, 10 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Great, thank you J Milburn, I'll mention Collectanea Londiniensia to my sister-in-law. She might well have a copy herself, although I don't. Perhaps sight of it would jog her memory! Your suggestion regarding the origin of the Brighton and "three years old" claims sounds very likely – I had been wondering about the source for the obituaries, I'm very grateful for your input and correction, obviously we do need to look at this book. Nortonius (talk) 10:52, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Handily my sister-in-law does have a copy of Collectanea Londiniensia, and she now agrees that she must have been wrong about when the photograph was taken – in her own words, it "goes to show how memory plays tricks", although she was able to describe the event in quite some detail – this photographic session must instead have been for that book of 1978, and one might suggest that the photograph in the article be dated to that year. I'll see what I can do about that on Commons in a bit. So, apologies to Midnightblueowl for the confusion over that! However, a willing publisher has been found for a brief, corrective bio of Ralph Merrifield, and I'm hoping it shall be in print in three or four months' time. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 10:11, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Peterson, Colin & Peterson, Jenny (2016), "Remembering Ralph Merrifield: Getting it right", Kent Archaeological Review (201), pp. 56–61 is now in print, and I've made a quick series of edits mostly based on that. Nortonius (talk) 12:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)