Talk:Red Eyebrows

Research Problems
How about putting in even a few year dates? Ie, 14-27 CE, anything to help the average reader know when these events occurred? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.151.229.167 (talk) 18:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the articles Liu Penzi, Chimei and Emperor Gengshi of Han have mildly important, true information in them; however, the research into the events surrounding the the rise and fall of the Chimei has not gone very well.

Liu Penzi and the Chimei are obscure. I've not been able to find any ancient Chinese history books that provide anything like the level of detail in these articles, and since I don't know Chinese, Chinese history books are not an option for me.

Most Chinese history books fold these events (AD 25-27) into the Later Han Dynasty (AD 25-220). Liu Penzi didn't die as emperor and wasn't entombed with the other Chinese emperors.

None of the research I've done so far invalidates the claims in these articles, but verifying them is proving difficult.

I would appreciate some help pointing me toward accessible in America, English-language books or something that can help me corroborate the material in the articles.

-- Mumia-w-18 11:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Preliminary Sources

 * The Early Chinese Empires. Mark Edward Lewis. Harvard College 2007. ISBN 0-674-02477-X.


 * Rise of the Chinese Empire. Chun-shu Chang. University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor 2006. ISBN 0-472-11533-2.


 * The Chinese Experience. Raymond Dawson. Phoenix Press, 5 Upper Saint Martin's Lane, London WC2H 9EA, ©2000. ISBN 1-84212-020-4.

-- Mumia-w-18 12:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Chimei (redirect from Red Eyebrows)
I am puzzled by the title of the article, the Pynin Chimei, which goes against all rules of WP. There is an accepted English name, Red Eyebrows or Red Brows which was used for centuries in the English-language literature, this term is known throughout the world in every imaginable language with the same semantics, only one of which is the Chinese Pynin Chimei; moreover, no English-language publication is entitled Chimei, the Chinese form and transcription is given in the body of the text, like for any other foreign term, and that includes all history textbooks in the whole world, from grade level to universities. The practical consequence of the current redirect is that the article is practically eliminated from the reference materials searched with the search engines. My guess is that the majority of the editors of this article also know the rebellion as Red Eyebrows rebellion, not Chimei rebellion. I suggest that the original title Red Eyebrows be restored, and a proper introduction present the Chinese form and transcription. Barefact (talk) 02:48, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

First sentence
The first sentence says Chimei .. refers, as an umbrella term, to one of the two major agrarian rebellion movements ... This leaves me puzzled. Does it mean Maproom (talk) 19:14, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It refers to one of them – later in the article, you will find out which
 * It refers to one of them, but no-one knows which
 * It can be used to refer to either of them

三老
三老 seems to generally be translated as "thrice venerable" in Chinese history. The article has this as "county educator". Does "thrice venerable" work in this context? --BB12 (talk) 05:45, 20 July 2014 (UTC)


 * while 三老 does mean "thrice venerable" or elders with virtues, the emphasis here is that this type of post are typical of rural or regional leaders instead of central government officials. On the other hand, "county educators" might be a bit misleading when it is more like "county influencers/consults".
 * 漢書·高帝紀上:舉民年五十以上，有修行， 能帥眾為善 ，置以為三老，鄉一人. 擇鄉三老一人為縣三老， 與縣令、丞、尉以事相教 ， 復勿徭戍 . 以十月賜酒肉. In the "Book of Han", this post are elders over 50 that "have leadership", they can "teach county magistrates with issues" and exempted from servitude labour. 112.118.119.106 (talk) 16:30, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

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