Talk:Red Skull

Red Skull's importance level
As the arch-enemy of a Top importance character (Captain America), the Red Skull should be listed as High-importance, as the arch-rivals of all other top importance characters are. I ask whoever keeps setting the importance to mid and low, please stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.208.232.14 (talk) 07:18, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * He is important to one company. Click on the importance scale link in the Wikiproject: Comics tag and you will find this deffinition:


 * This article is very important to the project, as it covers either a general area of knowledge or provides information of a significant topic.


 * The Red Skull falls into neither of these definitions. Stephen Day (talk) 06:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * And how is Doctor Octopus more important than Red Skull? How is Penguin important to more than one company? What has Sabretooth done to warrant High Importance. I will continue to change this until you give me a suitable answer, or change the other characters down to mid importance.


 * Superman is of high importance and so is Spider-Man due to the fact that they have impact and recongnition beyond the companies they represent. Characters of that level deserve to be listed as being of high level imporatance. The other characters you listed, they're rated higher than they should be as well in my opinion. None of them are on the level of the two characters I mentioned.


 * Thank you for pointing these out. I'll change them right now. :) Stephen Day (talk) 05:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Live action movie
The live-action movie summary makes NO SENSE. Well, it makes some but is convoluted. (I think that might more be a problem with the movie's script itself, as opposed to the entry) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.24.94 (talk) 08:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I notice there is no "Other Media" section. (preceding unsigned comment by 24.147.140.206 )

"The Red Skull was recently assassinated by the mysterious Winter Soldier, under orders from the former Soviet general Alexander Lukin, who wanted to possess the Cosmic Cube. He was literally confirmed as dead on the panel, but whether he will stay dead remains to be seen"

Due to his dealings with Arnim Zola, I suspect he can just teleport his mind into a cloned body.

Big sections missing
There is a lot of information missing from this artical but i do not have enough information to updates this. what i do know... -The red skull was alive on the captain america comics of the 90's (possible alt. universe) -in these comics he possesed great power as he has been bonded to the Cosmic Cube.

Colonel Abdul Al-Rahman. The Ultimate Red Skull ?

 * Is Colonel Abdul Al-Rahman, The Ultimate Red Skull ?


 * Their only similarity at all is that they are supervillain enemies of Captain America.  I mean, maybe I could see it if...you know...the colonel had a skull which was red ;) Vignettelante 05:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed opinion line from trivia...
I removed this line: "However, while the English name sounds rather menacing, the German name does not." from the trivia section. That's really an opinion. I would think that a German speaker would find the German name just as menacing, and that line doesn't add anything useful to the entry anyway. 147.240.236.9 17:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)Roy

Made a change about The Colonel
I changed it from "Arab youth" to "Persian youth". Obviously because the character was not an Arab.

Confusing
This article is very difficult to follow for anyone not already knowledgeable about the character. It would probably be easier to read if it followed real-world chronology, describing the character as he was potrayed in the 1940's first and not mentioning any retcons until they actually occured in real-world time. I think this would be a lot more readable than there was the first but then later it was decided the first was the second and there was a new first then second reappeared but some people now call the second the third and call the fake skull (who was originally the same as the first) the second.

"The Gentleman"
The Gentleman was an original character created for the Spiderman novels "Revenge of the Sinister Six" and "Secret of the Sinister Six". And Marvel doesn't consider the novels canon. So I don't think it should be here? 99.245.168.32 16:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)Angelwings

91.105.141.42 19:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)Shouldn't the interview mentioned below be referenced? I've tried to find the interview online, but to no avail.

'Red Skull is one of several Silver Age Marvel characters not to have an Ultimate Marvel counterpart. In an interview given shortly after the launch of "The Ultimates", Mark Millar had singled out Red Skull, along with Doctor Doom, as the only "traditional" Marvel villains he would be willing to use in the pages of the series.'

Fair use rationale for Image:Skullcosmic.png
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BetacommandBot 09:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Condensing sections
I've noticed Wiki discourages Trivia, so any thoughts on moving the game and Ultimates info into Other media and dropping the German name? Possibly the Ultimates note could be given its own small section at the end of the main bio, although I'm still unclear as to EXACTLY what constitutes "Other" media, seeing how Ultimates is still part of the Marvel Universe... I'll give it a day or two for input before making any changes.Enigmatic2k3 (talk) 23:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gauntletofredskull.jpg
Image:Gauntletofredskull.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Dean Rusk
Is "Dell Rusk" truly a reference to Dean Rusk or merely a great coincidence? I can't find any citation that Johns intended this as a reference. Only a few instances are found online where anyone made the connection if it truly was intended. By definition, DEAN Rusk is NOT an anagram of Red Skull, (but DELL Rusk is). You cannot rearrange DEAN Rusk in any way for it to become RED SKULL. So either delete all references to anagrame altogether (if the wiki community decides that there is not enough reference to support this) or at least keep the correct anagram, the DELL one - not the DEAN one. By the way, in another wiki page, on the biography of the actual DEAN Rusk - the 1960s US Secretary of State, there was a claim under "In popular culture" that he (or his name) inspires the name Red Skull in the comic. So if the anagram thoery is consdiered not sufficiently validated here, the biography of the historical Dean Rusk should be revised as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.253.11.18 (talk) 07:01, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

The 1st appearance of Schmidt
I really believe the first appearance of the Schmidt Red Skull is YOUNG ALLIES COMICS #1 not CAPTAIN AMERICA COMICS # 7. YAC#1 was published in summer of 1941, while CAC#7 was published in October of 1941.Giantdevilfish (talk) 21:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge Red Skull (Albert Malik)
-nomination/merge - the information on Albert Malik is a virtual reduplication of that already on the Red Skull page, which is fairly clear and consise, as is. Malik's signicance and notabilty dimishes without the greater context of the Red Skull to surround him. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 22:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC).


 * Merge Malik is a different character than the article being merged into, but he could just be added as just a footnote because as 66.109.248.114 said most of the information is duplicated. Normally I oppose merging characters that bear little relationship to each other, but I support this merge to get rid of the stub that is Malik's article. There's no way to expand the stub into a full article, so just merge it. -Freak104 (talk) 15:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Merge The communist Red Skull is as notable as the the Fred Davis Bucky and he doesn't have his own article, separate from the Bucky article. Stephen Day (talk) 23:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd just as soon separate all of the Malik information in this article and expand the other one. As is, this article is somewhat confusing due to the fact that there are three Skulls mentioned. There is no way we should have two equally relavent characters sharing one article. Does anyone know which Skull was involved with Captain America's death, by the way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.181.59 (talk) 19:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Discussion closed with consensus to merge. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 21:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Wsoldier11.jpg
Image:Wsoldier11.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 15:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Created by
According to The Steranko History of Comics Jack Kirby's friend, Ed Herron wrote a few Captain America stories, and he created the Red Skull. (The Steranko History of Comics, p. 53) Vegas Bleeds Neon (talk) 17:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

DEAN Rusk cannot be an anagram of RED SKULL
You cannot twist the spelling of "Dean Rusk" in anyway to spell "Red Skull". So it is not an anagram of one another. Furthermore, if it is not sifficiently validated, it should be deleted, out of respect of the actual late Secretary of State Dean Rusk and his family, who probably would not be very pleased with having their relative cited as the inspiration of a comic book villain. I notice that similar entry about Dean Rusk and Red Skull in another wiki webpage on the real Dean Rusk's biographaphy has also been deled. 182.253.11.18 (talk) 08:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC) a real life diplomat who also likes comics

Article's format
Since the majority of the article is about the Schmidt character, and the minor characters Maxon and Malik are summarized in small paragraphs in the "Other Red Skulls" section, shouldn't the lead and infobox focus on only the Schmidt character? -Fandraltastic (talk) 22:38, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 23:22, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Alright, I'm gonna go ahead and clean it up accordingly when I get some time in the next day or so, since there don't seem to be any objections. -Fandraltastic (talk) 02:59, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Mention "Johann Schmidt" in the lede?
The article is clearly about the Schmidt character rather than any of the lesser Red Skulls, including the first one, but should this distinction be clarified in the lede? The statement "The Red Skull [...] first appeared in Captain America Comics #7" is, in one sense, inaccurate. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 11:04, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

First Appearance
This is wrong. Red Skull appeared before issue #7. He was definitely in #3. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.170.255 (talk) 18:29, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * As various retcon explained, no.
 * In Captain America Comics#3 Maxon was (apparentrly) killed. Captain America Comics#7, featured ANOTHER Red Skull story (and Maxon not mentioned).
 * With Tales of Suspense#65, (May, 1965) Kirby e Lee featured an adaption of the first Red Skull story from Captain America Comics#1. In this story, the Red Skull is revealed to be industrialist John (not George) Maxon, who, unlike in the original, escapes at the end of this story. Also unlike in the original, the Red Skull in this story is revealed to be a pawn, an impostor authorized by the true Red Skull-- who in the next issue captured Captain America and, whiling away the time, revealed his origin. Tales of Suspense#66 reveals that true Red Skull had been active for some years in Europe before the creation of Captain America, as well as his having been German-born. Thus, the true Red Skull could not have been the same person as George Maxon, who had been presented as an American industrialist, and who could not have been active much earlier than 1941, since the United States had not entered World War II before that time
 * Thus, the first appearance of the true, German Red Skull, as stated by OHOTMUDE Update’89#6, must have been Captain America Comics#7 (and George and John are alias)
 * For more details check marvunapp and the OHOTMU ...--Spiderscai (talk) 22:57, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * For more details check marvunapp and the OHOTMU ...--Spiderscai (talk) 22:57, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

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Why Johann "Schmidt" and not "Shmidt" ?
Seems a bizzare question but.. when exactly was first mentioned the real name of the Red Skull?

In comics books of '40 ,AFAIK, the only real name mentioned is "George Maxon".. (the '50 we know are fake Skull, so unimportant).. the classic Tales of Suspense#65-66, (May, 1965) shows the history of Red Skull (but without names)...

(AFAIK) the first run that explains details and names are the comic books about Mother Superior, the daughter of Red Skull .. aka Captain America #298-300 (1984).. where is revealed that Red Skull is Johann Shmidt.

Some following "official" books, as OHOTMU of 1987 (and 1989 and more), filed "red skull" as Johann Shmidt ... Ironically even some of the references mentioned in this page, actually show Shmidt instead of Schmidt ... like marvel.com and marvunapp.com. A good reading about the "identity problem" of red skull (and cap) is http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/rskul2.htm.

For some reason (that i don't know, and i'd LIKE to know) the "Schmidt" variant was became famous.. since the comic book "Red Skull: Incarnate" (of Pak, 2011) uses Johann Schmidt, instead.

There is some run that predates Cap#298-300 that reveals Schmidt as real name? --Spiderscai (talk) 23:44, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

This page is a mess
I'm not touching it anymore since we have a youngin who reverts all edits and thinks he is "Keeper of the skull." Captain America #7 was not a notable Red Skull appearance and no explanation is made for his return in the issue. Where this information is should be cited. Johan Schmidt it not mentioned in this issue of Captain America, as I own the masterworks copy. Whoever has plastered this all over the article has not cited it. If we are talking about Captain America Tales of Suspense 65, Red Skull claims he was merely posing as George Maxon. The facts in this article aren't correct. Rickyar (talk) 14:21, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The main story in Captain America #7 (October 1941) was called "The Red Skull; An Ear for Music"... Argento Surfer (talk) 15:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Why did you remove the fact tag? You have a dubious claim with no sourced information?  Then you are saying I confused stories or comics which I clearly did not.  Please read what I wrote.  Captain America #7 from 1941 contains no mention of Johann Schmidt, yet you remove the fact tag and haven't sourced it again from that claim.  Your edit has been undone. Rickyar (talk) 17:31, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I removed the fact tag because you put it after the sentence saying Skull appeared in the issue. Did you mean to put it after the claim that he was later identified as Schmitt? I've added a source for that. Argento Surfer (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * There is nothing to indicate that was a new Red Skull in the story! There is no explanation given in the story as to why he is back.  He even alludes in the story it is the same Red Skull saying, "I'm like a bad penny."  Where this information that Johann Schmidt appears in #7 must have some basis in fact. My point is, this is about publication history, not fictional biography.  Your sourced information does not explain any of this and reads like in story fiction.  I want to read about retroactive continuity in the silver age re introduced the red skull as Johann Schmidt.  George Maxon was always the red skull in the Golden Age.  Retroactive continuity brought him back in the silver age as someone new.  That's why most of this article is sorely lacking!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickyar (talk • contribs) 18:02, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm having trouble understanding what you're asking for. Are you wanting to know which comics clarified that it was Schmidt in #7? Argento Surfer (talk) 18:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Correct. Please cite the issue Johann Schmidt was first introduced in the Golden age of comics.  My recollection is is was retroactive continuity.  If Schmidt's name appears then great, as a collector I would love to go find that issue.  It sure does NOT appear in in Cap #7.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickyar (talk • contribs) 18:38, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It is retroactive. That's why the article says "In later comics this Red Skull is identified as the Nazi Johann Schmidt". One of these two links might be able to answer your question. Argento Surfer (talk) 19:20, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Retroactive of course! Not until Cap 300 was this all revealed.  You don't think this is notable enough to make clear?  George Maxon was always the Red Skull in the golden age of comics, yet an encyclopedic entry makes no mention of this?  Instead we point to fictional retroactive continuity in the publication history?  You haven't improved this article, just further muddied the water between real, and in story. Rickyar (talk) 19:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think "in later comics" makes it clear. If you want to make that more specific, go ahead. Argento Surfer (talk) 19:36, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * To be totally clear: "A new version of the Red Skull was introduced in Captain America #7 (October 1941), claiming that George Maxon was a pawn posing as the Red Skull. " never happens in Captain America #7 from 1941. That statement is a pure fabrication. Apologies if you spend thousands of dollars for a copy of this issue to be sorely disappointed.   I think it might happen in Cap # 297 or 298, but until I have a copy in hand. I'm not touching it. Rickyar (talk) 20:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Bravo for the fix. I'm working on a new publication history in mysandbox from all the primary source I've been collecting for the past 4 weeks.  The hot fudge comment is interesting and when properly sourced would be fine for the creation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:A80:9480:55CF:59CC:F830:8547 (talk) 12:47, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * As of now my research is Marvel backtracked from Cap 298 and has established in their continuity that it was only one Red Skull all along. Again earlier version of this article from 2006 have all of this.  Not sure why this article has gone so long being so inaccurate to skulls publication history. Rickyar (talk) 12:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "As of now my research" is bit funny... there is somehow detailed post exactly before this thread, dated 2018, that speak about "names of red skull"... it's unclear why none have commented that, and instead restarted a 'search'.. most stuff are known for ages.. the only weirdness is "why is (magically) become Schmidt" instead of "Shmidt" as the primary sources clearly show ?  The 'mess', instead, is a different problem... and isn't rare in Marvel (or even comicbooks) characters .. it's about " in-universe/fictional history+chronology " and " Publication/editorial history+chronology ". The 1st is fluid and change per retcon and so.. the 2nd is static (and damn important)... sadly  most people has problems to catch that point ... some hints are in Manual_of_Style/Comics ...  87.19.41.121 (talk) 11:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)