Talk:Reg Smythe

Style and COI tags
Needs cleanup: a bit chatty, plus a huge amount of unreferenced material has been added by an editor who appears to be Reg Smythe's cousin. Gordonofcartoon 12:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear Gordonofcartoon, I am totally new to this process, but please bear with me in my response to your comments. As I say I am new to this process, but have not or would not allow myself to self promote the biography of Reg Smyth. I agree the details are raw and could be further enhanced by an experienced editor or publisher, but to have the vast percentage of my Reg Smyth article culled and deleted as though the facts are unsubstantiated by a third party is quite insulting. After all I am only Reg Smyth's cousin, a person who knew him, a family blood relative, a person who I knew very well indeed. You have in an instant deleted my article without regard to the matter that "why should I have a third-party to substantiate my manuscript". At present I am the only person who has written a full and factual biography of Reg Smyth's life. Who better could write such a family biography. Am I to believe that I must wait for some other author to have his book published (probably with my known facts now disclosed)so that my manuscript can then be verified against his work. As I say I am the only author to date of his biography. I find it very disturbing that as a blood relation to Reg, I can promote his life within Wikipedia, to suddenly become aware that a person who is not related or has no intimate knowledge of his life, to have my article deleted and skimmed down to the mere briefest of details. Is it not natural that I should have the benefit of the doubt as to who has the authority or right to cull, or skim down a factual article from a relation of the very man concerned. It would appear that even though my article is factual, it is not safe from deletion. I find that a great shame, as it goes against the very reason as to why I thought it appropriate to join Wikipedia and inform and correct those wrong assumption about Reg Smyth's private life. Given that my comments are now mostly stricken from my article, the very nature of those deletions are in fact providing the viewing members of the public, with the scantest of information concerning Reg Smyth's life. Thus adding to the scant knowledge presently available in hearsay and other incorrect details posted on the INTERNET. I fear that this initial new foray into Wikipedia has been a very unexpected disappointment personally. I had the notion that I was providing the viewing members of public with, refreshing new details about his life. To be now aware that my comments can be culled without the slightest of concern, is quite a let down, and has left me with the impression that I have made a grave mistake by being so naive in providing such details. I will not add to my article or attempt to re-state the factual comments I had originally supplied. I must therefore assume that misinformation and hearsay comments will pervade throughout any further articles written on Reg Smyth's life. Again this will add to the incorrect information and error littered articles, which are so evident throughout the INTERNET sites. Have I made a mistake, yes, have I learnt from it, yes. To conclude this piece, I would hope that you may respond to my comments as I regard a civilized debate, to be polite and reasonable under the circumstances. I leave these comments with politeness and respect, and would hope that a return submission is evident. Kind Regards Ian Smyth Herdman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Holmcroft (talk • contribs) 23:00, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ian, I'm sorry if it disappoints you and comes as an insult, but the crux of the issue is that Wikipedia is a reference work whose policy is that it be compiled only from previously published sources. This may seem weird, but it's the only way to confirm some level of reliability when anyone can edit articles. I'm sure that you're trustworthy, but unfortunately many editors aren't and have particular agendas. Therefore, one of the core policies is "verifiability, not truth".
 * This is not to be say any old stuff from Internet sites is acceptable; sources are expected to have credentials as publishers (for instance, quality news sources and reference works from widely accepted authorities). That's why I sourced it only from the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography and BBC. When your book gets third-party published, and I'm sure it will, it would count as reliable too - but not beore publication.
 * Sorry again, but I'm going to have to revert your changes and pass this on as a conflict of interest. Gordonofcartoon 18:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Text for discussion
Actually, I just read further and found it all comes from the above's unpublished book, which puts it outside WP:V. Gordonofcartoon 12:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

''Reginald Smyth cartoonist 1917-1998 was born on Tuesday the 10th of July 1917 at number 52 Union Rd, Central Estate, Hartlepool, “the Cleveland Road end” as Reg always described it. The son of Richard Oliver Smyth, a shipyard worker, and his wife, Florence (Florrie) née Pearce. Reg Smythe attended Galleys Field School in Hartlepool in 1932. However whilst in class XX-7 in 1932 Reg’s teacher Mr. George Carter, considered Reg to be a competent and talented drawer. And Mr. Carter would frequently send young Reg off in the afternoon, to study the building structures around the area of his school. In 1932 before his 15th birthday Reg left Galley’s Field School without any qualifications and went straight into employment. Reg’s first tentative steps from school to employment, started as an errand boy. Reg would deliver groceries and meat from a shop owned by Mr. Charlie Walker of Hartlepool. In 1936 when Reg was 18 and on the dole he joined The Royal Northumberland Fusiliers. Reg was now a soldier Private 4270927 Reg Smyth and would be unaware that within a few short years Germany would instigate the 2nd World War, and his expected duration in the Army would be lengthened. In fact he was due to be returned to England after serving his three years when the war was declared, he later said with a smile on his face, that “I joined the Army to play football, not to fight a bloody war”!''

''During World War II, Reg Smyth saw active service in the North African campaign of Tobruk and the Middle East. He in later life would describe his experience as a soldier as, “one of the biggest influences in his life”. It was here that he initially started to draw character cartoons. Whilst sending letters home to his Herdman cousin's and family, he drew characters on the enclosed letters or envelopes. He quickly developed images of a superior nature, and was asked by fellow soldiers to draw such images on their letters home. Consequently he later drew images for several Cairo based newspapers whilst being stationed in the Middle East.''

''After being released from active duty, he settled in London and worked as a clerk class 3 for the GPO.” As a clerk Reg had ample opportunity to doodle and to pass the time with periods of drawing. Whilst at the Post Office Reg was asked to draw a poster for a staff drama production. At that time Reg now more confident in his artistic talents, had decided to draw several cartoons, with the aim of selling them. He believes that a total of between 20-30 were drawn. Somewhat disappointed Reg only recalls selling 2 cartoons, but 1 of them had been purchased for £2. Reg would produce a special collection of cartoons for his hometown newspaper, The Northern Daily Mail, now The Mail. This period as remembered was around the early 1950’s, long before his creation of Andy Capp. Whilst Reg was freelancing, his sketches/cartoons were generating interest from several areas. Not to mention The Daily Mirror, Reg was offered a permanent position as a cartoonist on the strength of his previous and known cartoon/sketches. Reg would be employed in early 1954, Reg produced his cartoons for The Mirror readers and the heading for these early cartoons would be “Laughter at Work”.''

''In late 1956/7 the then Mirror Chairman, Hugh Cudlipp had decided that The Mirror sales in the Northeast of England, were not as expected and should be increased. Mr. Cudlipp would be told of the background and location of his employee Reg Smyth. It was assumed that Reg having the ideal insight in to Northeast of England could come up with a sketch/cartoon relating to the Northeast. Reg was at home in Hartlepool lying in bed when a personal telegraph arrived from The Mirror which said, “come back to London sharpish and bring a new cartoon character with you”! Reg delighted at this prospect, had many thought’s concerning the character. And these thoughts would include aspects of harsh working environments, and what better inspiration than his North-eastern up bringing, especially his childhood memories. Reg said that the character would be based on all of his childhood and adult memories, and would include the stereotypical man from the working class background in the harsh Northeast and Hartlepool. And the name for this character had to be “Johnny Capp” or should it be “Freddy Capp”? Finally Reg decided that it should be “Andy Capp” a pun for the man who could do nothing for himself, apart from drink beer, gamble, beat his wife, and never work or look for work. Andy Capp was born at 70 miles per hour along the A1 motorway heading south to London. Reg said “that the journey down south took 7 hours and to come up with the name of Andy Capp and be confident of that name took me nearly 3 hours, he was probably conceived between Doncaster and Stamford in a haze of petrol stations and toilet stops! The character Andy Capp was based on the stereotypical man found throughout the UK. The name being a pun for a man who was a burden or handycap to his wife, a layabout or lovable waster, who preferred drinking and gambling to the stability of his marriage. However his mother Florrie was indeed the inspiration for his character Flo, she herself often gave interviews describing herself as Flo. Reg Smythe maintained throughout life that his father Richard Oliver Smyth was a million miles away from his Andy Capp character, and that in no way could his character ever be presumed to be his father.''

''The first Andy Capp cartoon appeared in The Mirror on the 5th of August 1957. It was at this stage that Reg changed the Surname spelling from Smyth to Smythe. He later told his family that the Surname sounded more posh and would be more acceptable to the readers down south! The early cartoons crude and often portrayed Andy Capp as a wife beating layabout. Reg now fulfilling his dreams had doubts about this crude fellow who drank and beat his wife. Reg would soon come to regret the early cartoons showing a brutish and bullying husband beating their wife. In later life Reg would remember an early cartoon which displayed Andy Capp’s wife, Flo sitting on the floor with a large facial bruise and black eye. The caption read, “look at it this way honey, I’m a man of few pleasures, and one of them ‘appens to be knockin’ yer about”! In later life Reg stated that this cartoon was dreadful and displayed the wrong image he was looking for.''

''It was indeed naïve of Reg and this was a learning curve, which he duly accepted. From now on Reg would soften up Andy Capp, make him the butt of his wife’s aggression, and portray him as the no good layabout, who had to step in line when Flo clicked her fingers. The two characters, Andy Capp and Flo became more dependent on each other and indeed Flo developed into more of a maternal character, such as that of a mother chastising her wayward son (Andy Capp).''

''The name of Andy Capp would be known world wide, in Germany as “Willi Wakker” in France “Andre Chapeau” the Italians called him “Angelo Capello” and in Sweden “Tuffa viktor” in Portugal “Ze Do Bone” and in Holland “Jan Met De Pet”. Andy Capp is meant to be a "pun" for a husband who is no use to his wife, other than being a nuisance and irritable layabout. Although fully mobile but handicapped by his chronic laziness. Andy Capp comes from a working class background, his hobbies include, pigeon racing, greyhound racing, snooker football, Rugby, betting on horses, being drunk, fishing, lazing on the sofa, and fighting with his long-suffering wife Flo, (who was incidentally based on Reg Smythe's mother Florrie. His only stated profession is a "Master Treacle Bender". Andy Capp was born in Hartlepool and brought up by his grand-parents, because his parents ran away from home when he was 1 hour old! His school academic qualifications are sobering to say the least. He attended "Gallows Field School" actually in reality Reg Smyth attended a school as a young boy called Galleys Field School in Hartlepool (obviously an inspiration for Andy Capp's school)!''

Reg Smyth received numerous awards, including Best British cartoon strip every year from 1961-1965; major awards in Italy in 1969, 1973 and 1978; and in the US, the National Cartoonists Society Best Strip award in 1974.

''On the 28th of September 1982 a stage musical based on the strip had a short run at London's Aldwych Theatre, with songs by Alan Price and starring Tom Courtenay as Andy Capp. The play had previously been performed on the 29th of June at the Royal Exchange Theatre in Manchester. It received rave reviews and was billed as "The World Premiere". The play itself was written by "Trevor Peacock" the acclaimed actor who found fame in "The Vicar Of Dibley", as the stuttering but likeable village idiot forever saying "no,no,no,no,no,no, but yes! A fellow actor in the Andy Capp play "John Bardon" later went on to play "Jim Branning" in Eastenders, which is currently shown on all BBC channels. On September the 13th 1984, The Tyne and wear Theatre Company also produced the Andy Capp play, the performances were conducted in The Newcastle Playhouse. Local and well established actor "Auf Weidersehen Pet" Tim Healy took the lead part of Andy Capp, which was scheduled to run for 4 weeks.''

''An attempt to transfer Andy Capp to television in 1988 met with little success. Although the sitcom was Internationally known, the episodes were filmed without a studio audience and lacked the spontaneous applause which would have benefited the show. During rehearsals the cameramen and production staff all laughed out-loud, but without the studio audience the atmosphere at the time of filming was described as being frankly dull. Obviously a huge mistake by Thames Television, they should have allowed a studio audience. The well known British character actor James Bolam "likely lad" played Andy on ITV. The series consisted of 6 episodes that were shown once and have never been repeated. The screening dates for the production was from the 22nd of February 1988 to the 28th of March 1988.''

''In April of 1976, Reg Smythe returned to Hartlepool. Reg Smythe died on Saturday June 13, 1998, and the original strip has been continued in a highly regarded pastiche of his style. Several weeks before his death Reg Smyth married Jean Marie Glynn at a private ceremony at his Whitegates home in Hartlepool. Reg Smyth's first wife Vera Toyne who he had been married to for 46 years had died on the 6th of May 1997 she had died suddenly at their home aged 80 years. It was only a matter of several weeks later that Reg was diagnosed with lung cancer. Although ill he still drew his creation from the early morning till late at night. He drew Andy Capp in his "den" an affectionate name for his study in his Whitegates home. Reg sadly died in his beloved home 27 days before his 81st birthday. He had drawn enough cartoons to last the Daily Mirror for 12 to 18 months. After his death two cartoonists were employed to draw and maintain the Andy Capp image. For some time the writer and artist were unaccredited, but in November 2004 the strip began to carry a credit for Roger Mahoney and Roger Kettle. Reg Smyth was cremated in June of 1998 at a private ceremony at Stranton Grange Crematorium in Hartlepool. He said before he died that his epitaph should read "Reg Smythe 1917-2017"!''

''On the 28th of June 2007, after years of local speculation, petitions and fundraising by Ian Smyth Herdman (Reg Smythe's cousin) a bronze statue commemorating Andy Capp was erected near to the Harbour of Refuge Pub in Smyth's home town of Hartlepool. Measuring 5ft 8in, the Statue cost £20,000 and was designed by Shrewsbury sculptor Jane Robbins, a near cousin of Sir Paul McCartney. Although the statue is located on the headland of Hartlepool, its location is ½ a mile away from his birthplace, which was in fact, 52 Union Road on the Central Estate area of Hartlepool. To date Ian Smyth Herdman has written the only biography of Reg Smythe's life. His unpublished book simply called "The Man Behind Andy Capp". Reg Smythe 1917-1998. All of the above references are taken from his book. The above written by Ian Smyth Herdman on the 28th of August 2007. ''

Reversion
I've reverted (again) unsourced additions posted by a relative of Smythe from a so-far-unpublished book. I'm sorry - I've no doubt the information is true. But until it's in a third-party published source, it can't be used here. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 20:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)