Talk:Rezidor Hotel Group

Requested move 17 January 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. This close cannot mandate splitting the article, but please feel free to proceed with any edits you deem necessary under normal editing procedure. Dekimasu よ! 04:06, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Radisson Hotel Group → Rezidor Hotel Group – move back to previous article title and prepare to split the article. "Radisson Hospitality AB " formerly Rezidor Hotel Group, was only one of the company of the new group Radisson Hotel Group, the other one was Radisson Hospitality Inc, formerly Carlson Hotels. It should have 3 articles for Carlson Hotels until the rename and merge, for Rezidor Hotel Group until the rename and merge, and the new entity Radisson Hotel Group Matthew hk (talk) 05:09, 17 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting.  &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 10:45, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Instead of RM, the page may need page history split, into Radisson Hotel Group (where redirect Carlson Rezidor Hotel Group go there) and Rezidor Hotel Group (where redirects Rezidor SAS Hospitality, SAS International Hotels go there). The article at first (Special:Permalink/66166110) was about the company called Rezidor SAS, which did not have any relation with Carlson Hotels, excepting a franchise agreement (or a "lease" agreement) since 1994 and Carlson owned the shares of Rezidor SAS in 2005, starting at 25% level. The article then suffered from ongoing COI and copyvio edits that the main text was purged and altered again and again, but still about Rezidor Hotel Group, the new name of Rezidor SAS Hospitality, until circa 2013. The article should about this brand/corporate identity "Rezidor" (and predecessor SAS International Hotels) until this corporate identity and brand became defunct in 2018.


 * The "unrelated content" that about Carlson Hotels, former wholly owned subsidiary of Carlson Companies, started to fill by and other paid editors circa 2013 (since i can't check rev deleted history), while the copyvio content that similar to the official fact sheet of Rezidor Hotel Group, seem disappeared after Special:Permalink/581025008 (rev hidden). Since then the article was hijacked and start to about the enlarged hotel group, which i analogue as A + B = C. And also due to the evolution of the article content it seem hard to find a point to page history cut, or may be not really matter if the article was under heavy rev deletion. It also not really matter if the content was under related, but not exactly the right article title. Some content was copied to Carlson Companies with this edit Special:Diff/878868354, and tagged in the talk pages, may be it should also consider the page history split and the attribution.


 * For the analogue A + B = C, or Bank of New York (now merged and was a redirect) + Mellon Financial = The Bank of New York Mellon, seem it should better need 2 or 3 articles for the content. Also, i really don't like the idea of Matryona, which Radisson Hotel Group is a hotel company that owned multi-chain, and then have Radisson Hotels as GNG fails article for the single brand only, and then have Radisson Blu (formerly a co-brand Radisson SAS) Radisson Red for the sub-brands, which seem far away from passing GNG. But keep aside to later.


 * Carlson Hotels is A, which is an American company and the owner, licensor of Radisson brand. The content should went to Carlson Companies, as per International Directory of Companies History, treating it as a whole in one chapter (and the book have another entry for Carlson Restaurants Worldwide, however, it is a redirect in wiki)


 * B, certainly Rezidor Hotel Group, licensee of Radisson brand.


 * C, is Radisson Hotel Group. Since Radisson Hotel Group is a "merger" that eliminate both corporate identities Carlson and Rezidor, and named after the biggest brand Radisson of the multi-chain company, it should have a brief summary of the predecessors, but not writing and c&p the same content 3 times (or counting the chain articles, 5 or 7 times). And i will made a draft in Draft:Radisson Hotel Group to show the final product.


 * -- Matthew hk (talk) 22:59, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:40, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:43, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If the five articles you speak of are written; forming a group of articles, which title (of the five) would be the parent with the other four being subordinate?--John Cline (talk) 08:03, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It only need 3, Radisson Hotel Group (redirect from Radisson Hospitality AB and Radisson Hospitality, Inc), Rezidor Hotel Group and Carlson Hotels (may worth to merge back to Carlson Companies). Carlson Rezidor Hotel Group should be redirect to Radisson Hotel Group. Matthew hk (talk) 08:23, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * For subordinate, i don't want to touch the mess of Radisson Blu and Radisson Hotels yet. But Rezidor Hotel Group and Carlson Hotels should be stand-alone articles for "defunct" company, as their corporate identities were stripped to became Radisson Hospitality AB and Radisson Hospitality Inc, the legal names of Radisson Hotel Group. The "parent article " of Carlson Hotels should be Carlson Companies, while Rezidor Hotel Group had no "parent article", as it was owned by SAS and then Carlson Hotels (increase from just 25% to 50%). Matthew hk (talk) 08:28, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I appreciate this overview. I may be missing something but it seems to me that these page forks more properly spinoff the article as it is currently titled where the bulk of the page's history will also remain. Moving the whole page history to "Rezidor Hotel Group" to then spinoff topics more congruently spun from "Radisson Hotel Group" (now with a one line page history) frankly seems counter intuitive, especially if Rezidor will ultimately be redirected back to Radisson after all else; ending up with seriously disjointed page histories for reasons that remain unclear to me. I'm not raising a contest because the confusion may be solely my own, but if anyone else is unclear, it may be best to discuss the move first. Best regards.--John Cline (talk) 09:38, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * it did not need to redirect the final pages to Radisson Hotel Group, as Rezidor Hotel Group should be a seperate article for the defunct brand. I.e. chopping the content for the same legal entity by two different brands. As Radisson is yet another brand that shared with former Carlson Hotels (which i think put the content of Carlson Hotels in Carlson Companies is fairly enough). For the mess of page history, yes it may need a split after COI editor just move the page and change the main text from one to another, and without any citation at all. Matthew hk (talk) 10:23, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * And after checking International Directory of Company Histories, it refer Carlson Companies as travel and hospitality company, so it seem no need to split the content as a stand alone article Carlson Hotels, and instead two articles are needed. Radisson Hotel Group (Carlson–Rezidor, former division of Carlson Companies) and Rezidor Hotel Group (aka Rezidor–SAS, former division of SAS Group and then a stand alone hotel group). Matthew hk (talk) 11:17, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. As I understand it, the idea is to retain the history of this article under Rezidor Hotel Group and start a new article about the new organization at Radisson Hotel Group. I think that makes sense. --В²C ☎ 19:42, 29 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.