Talk:Role-playing game/Archive 2

Gamebooks
Hello,

I found nothing about the gamebooks, such as Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf etc. Although it is not really roleplaying, it is closely linked to it, especially since the release of the Lone Wolf RPG (Mongoose Publishing, OGL System).

Did I look in the wrong direction or can I create such an article (or could a native english spaeaker create such an article ;-)). See e.g. fr:Livre-jeu, fr:Loup Solitaire, fr:Astre d'Or Cdang 15:19, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * There's now an article at gamebook, though it's pretty short. -Sean Curtin 23:49, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * thanx (-: Cdang 07:42, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Not quite encyclopedic
The article as it is currently written is informative and all, but it currently reads a bit too much like "RPG's are great and here's why" than an objective reference article. Someone more informed than I on the subject should revise the wording to make it more neutral in tone.


 * REggert 20:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've made major changes to the history section. A flag under articles for revision asked for more discussion of games other than D&D.

Non-gamers find this genre profoundly confusing. I've expanded the wargames origins and added a discussion of literary roots. The article's reading list and controversies section seem to have assumed reader knowledge of this background. That is not a good assumption.

Changed the tone of the D&D discussion to explain its early importance. Downplayed the later editions. Included brief histories of Steve Jackson Games, White Wolf, and Wizards of the Coast. Discussed controversy in historical context. Edited other paragraphs for style, presentation, and tone. Added several source references.

Altogether this became a nearly complete section rewrite. Durova 21:50, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Made other changes in a similar spirit. Took computerized games out of the variations section. Expanded the concept section and streamlined the game mechanics section. I hope other readers find the long Wild West analogy appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. Non-gamers often have difficulty making the paradigm shift away from zero-sum games. This approach seemed effective as a bridge concept. Durova 05:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Durova: I would suggest that you should focus most of your attention on the related articles, such as Computer role-playing game, History of role-playing, or MMORPGs, etc.

How do you mean? Are you asking me to write more on these subjects or less? This article is flagged to de-emphasize computer role-playing games. The History of role-playing article does confuse me. I'm unclear how that should differ from the history subsection here.

Many non-RPGers have trouble grasping what this kind of game is about. Familiar concepts like Chess, wargames, Lord of the Rings, and Nintendo give them a foundation to begin. Durova 09:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC) - Well, a general page like this is mainly designed to summarize information, with more detailed information on each genre, etc, given in the articles for each specific subtopic. There are many subtopics attached to this subject, and I suspect many of them need work; and perhaps some of the information in this article should go in those instead.

Made some edits with your advice in mind. I agree the article group needs a better sense of its respective boundaries. Durova 07:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Controversies
"transpassed to reality" - the Brazilian guy alleged in the policy deposition that killed to finishes an quest of the game. It can seem nonsense, but 3 youngs in Brazil had been condemned because they had killed and they say that the act was an objective of the game. For being a traditionalistic society, this type of game has been accused frequent "of evil" - and the policy already is making campaign in schools to banish the game - something similar as the campaigns anti-drugs. --Mateusc 02:21, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I assume this refers to the last paragraph under "controversies", or vice versa. It looks to me like this material is worth including, but in its present form it is not even close to being NPOV and is also in very poor English. Someone who knows more about this case than I do should redo that part ASAP.

concerning the two incidents in Brazil where crimes were linked to Role Playing Games, there seem to be no details given towards the nature of these incidents, or any details whatsoever in fact, beyond vague allusions. This wouldn't be a problem if the two links to full articles about the incidents did not lead to non-english sites. (moved by Joshua BishopRoby

Reprazentin' / Celebrity Players
I'd like to see some substantiation on that list of famous gamers. Vin Diesel famously has a character's name tattooed on him; Marilyn Manson surprises me not at all; Ewan MacGregor I can somehow believe. . . but Billy Crystal? J-Lo? For real?
 * Er, first off, the above was from me; second, I'm totally wrong about the Vin Diesel tattoo thing. (Though he is an unreconstructed gamer.) The question remains, though. Iralith 21:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, the list certainly needs verification. I can't be bothered tho, it would be quite a job. ··gracefool |&#9786; 22:26, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I know JLo is a gamer, she plays EQ as well according to Sony's site. A few others I heard about, how much proof is proof? Dominick 00:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I know Eric Raymond is a gamer from personal experience role-playing with him in the MD-DE area. The Bearded One 21:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I have heard the rumor that Johnny Depp is also a gamer. I have found no corroberation on his wikipedia page. Does anyone else know if this is true? Or even likely? The Bearded One 06:31, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the list of Celebrity Players is of dubious relevancy to the entire topic and should be removed. -- Doug Bell 09:42, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed Percy Snoodle 10:17, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've got to concur. I see little to no utility in the section, outside of validation for bruised egos.  Joshua BishopRoby 16:30 11 April 2006 (PST)

Where does this list come from? What source was used, what criteria? The list would have some use in this article of there was anything backing it. -AvalonXQ 09 April 2006

Since a number of editors have raised objections and no one's come out in support of the list, I've made it invisible until we can properly source it and establish whether it should be here. --Muchness 00:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe creating a stub with the list?

Advertising removal
I removed the entry for Eternal Fantasy from the list of 'Community' links, as it was definitely not NPV, and read more like an ad than anything else. I don't think we really want to list every RPG discussion site there is, and definitely not like this. (Entry reproduced below) --Travis Casey


 * Eternal Fantasy is a community dedicated to fantasy role-playing, soon to open its own massive PbP RPG based on the original fantasy/medieval world of Medunian. The PbP RPG will be one of a kind, with unique storyline, many features, places, side games, and more. EF brings you topsite lists for RPG advertising, a great role-playing community, and many other things you will enjoy. It is a good place for experienced and non-experienced role-players as well. A good place to begin, and a good place to improve.

199.73.167.161 16:59, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Looks like you made a good edit. I agree. The Bearded One 05:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Formatting titles
At present there are no guidelines about how to format RPGs at Manual of Style (titles). I'd like to get consensus here about preferred RPG formatting for inclusion in the MoS. My preference is to italicize RPG titles (e.g., Dungeons & Dragons, Vampire: The Masquerade) and leave RPG systems without italics (e.g., GURPS, d20 System, Storyteller System). Your thoughts? --Muchness 20:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above statement. Angelbo 21:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * RPG book titles are still book titles, and should be treated as such. Vampire: the Masquerade is correct.  When talking about a Vampire game, however, you should not italicize, any more than you would italicize "a basketball game" or "a game of chess."  Few game systems are also titles of books, so they should not be italicized.  GURPS is Roman; GURPS Basic Set is italicized.  Joshua BishopRoby 16:23 11 April 2006 (PST)

Link removal
There are billions and billions of links for RPG communities. I removed the links. WHich ones should go back?

===Community===
 * An on-line forum that contains many rpg stories that people can act out.
 * DHTML RPG, a site for DRPG game developers
 * FavGames.com - a site for players of MMORPGs, including World of Warcraft, DAOC, EverQuest 2 etc.
 * Federation Klingon Alliance - A Star Trek derived RPG group which has existed in varying forms since 1993.
 * Federation Reborn - An active roleplaying community that participates in primarily Star Trek rp's, but also Star Wars and Stargate
 * FreeRoleplay.org - a site for developers and players of open-source RPGs; includes a mailing list
 * indie-rpgs.com - "The Forge"; maintained by Ron Edwards, this site for Independent Role-Playing Games includes discussion forum, articles, and other resources.
 * Lakeland Role Playing Guild - an active community of gamers
 * Nightendale RPG Network An expansive OTBRPG network, featuring Dynasty Warriors, Blood of Britain and the Malibora Chronicles. They also cater for other styles of text based roleplaying.
 * RolePlay onLine - Probably the largest forum-based roleplaying and collaborative storytelling site on the Internet. See also Roleplay_Online.
 * Role Players Gaming Network - An online games-server and forums community for role players.
 * rpggateway.com - RPG directory.
 * RPG Forum - Discussions about online RPG games
 * RPG Wolfpack - An online community dedicated to the design and creation of many forms of role-playing games.
 * RPG.net - One of the largest general role-playing game fan-sites.
 * Star Trek Simulation Forum ( STSF) - Founded in mid 2002. It has served as the chat based role-playing game of the official Star Trek website since October 2002. . Remains the only simming organization officially recognized by the site.
 * The UCIP - a community of mostly Star Trek RPGs both via IRC and eMail.

What do you all think? Dominick (TALK) 18:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that removing the whole section without waiting for comment on the discussion page was a mistake. I reverted.  It seems to me that the Community section of the external links is for web-fora where rpgs and rpg theory are discussed.  I have not checked all of the links in this section, but I know at least a sizable handfull of them serve exactly that purpose (ie: RPG.net & indie-rpgs.com). The Bearded One 18:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Removing them all was perhaps reckless, but I agree with Dominick that the links section needs to be pruned.

Removed sites:
 * Dead links
 * http://fedreborn.com/ fedreborn - Redirect to Star Trek themed site
 * http://www.rpg-index.com/ RPG Index - Site closed


 * Links related to a specific setting / system (not appropriate to a general article on rpgs):
 * http://www.ucip.org/ ucip - Star Treck simming site
 * http://www.stsf.net/ Star Trek Simulation Forum - Star Treck simming site
 * http://www.fka.org/ Federation and Klingon Alliance - Star Treck simming site
 * http://wednus2.blogspot.com/2005/05/haru-ki-pilot-game-using-drpg.html Blog post about a game engine
 * http://www.maganicwars.com/forum/ Maganic Wars forum - low traffic forum for an online game
 * http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/community/chat/index.html - Star Trek simming site


 * Non-notable and irrelevant sites:
 * http://www.favgames.com/ FavGames - Commercial site / linkspam
 * http://www.rpgn.net/ Role Players Gaming Network - No Alexa ranking; very low traffic forum.
 * http://p4.forumforfree.com/rpgboard.html RPG Portal - nn forum with non-existent traffic
 * http://nightendale.org/ Nightendale RPG Network - No Alexa ranking; nn site with low traffic forum
 * http://www.lrpg.org/ L.R.P.G. - No Alexa ranking, very low traffic forum, rarely updated site

Retained sites:
 * http://www.rpg.net/ RPGNet - Alexa ranking 19,937; useful and relevant resource
 * http://rpol.net RolePlay onLine! - Alexa ranking 30,133 relevant site content
 * http://www.rpggateway.com/ RPG Gateway - Alexa ranking 286,029; RPG site directory
 * http://www.indie-rpgs.com - Alexa ranking 289,661, relevant content

Retained but borderline: --Muchness 01:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * http://www.freeroleplay.org/ Free RPG Community - Low Alexa ranking of 2,040,991, advocacy site that should probably be linked to a less general article
 * http://www.rpgwolfpack.com RPG Wolfpack - No Alexa ranking; provides relevant resources but appears light on content and traffic; registration req'd to access some content
 * http://www.zeal.com/category/preview.jhtml?cid=72012 Web directory with rpg subcategory

I added www.chat.rpghost.com to the site list. If you put RPG into google, the first result is RPGhost, so I feel this addition is highly relevant, especially given the huge amount of quality, original content on the site.

Missing articles
While doing some interwiking work between en and pl wikis, I was amazed to see that the en-wiki has no articles about 1) skill (RPG)/character skill (pl:Umiejętność (RPG)), 2) attribute (PRG)/character skill (pl:Współczynnik (RPG)), 3) gaming group/group (RPG) (pl:Drużyna (RPG)), 4) expantion (RPG) (pl:Dodatek (RPG), player (RPG) (pl:Gracz (RPG), 5) slang (RPG)/language (RPG) (pl:Gwara RPG), gaming manual (pl:Podręcznik (RPG)), character creation (pl:Tworzenie postaci), and quite a few others.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 23:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Here are a few equivalents:
 * skill (RPG)/character skill (pl:Umiejętność (RPG)) - character point (clean-up needed)
 * attribute (RPG)/character skill (pl:Współczynnik (RPG) - ability score
 * slang (RPG)/language (RPG) (pl:Gwara RPG) - Category:Role-playing game terminology
 * --Muchness 06:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

World of Darkness
The World of Darkness games were included as both Fantasy and Horror. While obvioulsy thing can have aspects of multipe genres, at some point. I have removed Fantasy references; if people feel that Fantasy is more appropriate than Horror, feel free to shift (I don't know the game from Adam) but don't have it be in both.Nedlum 05:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Technically, horror is properly a subgenre of fantasy, of which pseudo-european medieval ("Tolkeinesque") fantasy is also a subgenre. World of Darkness should be in the subgenre of Urban Fantasy.