Talk:Rosalía de Castro

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

edits
I contributed the edits referring to 'saudade', the death of her favorite son and her cancer of the face. Alloco1 00:55, 10 January 2006‎ (UTC)

status of translation
Can someone tell me&mdash;what's the source of the translation of "Nasín cand' as prantas nasen"? Is it under copyright? &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 01:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I am the source of the translation.Szfski (talk) 17:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Owned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.26.100 (talk) 14:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

the translations
It seems to me that the two translations included here would be better off on Wikisource, seeing as they are source materials. Also, perhaps it would be best to merely include links to translations hosted elsewhere on the internet, such as those by Louis Rodrigues, John F. Nims and Michael Smith. My impression is that editors should only provide their own translations as a last resort. Moreover, I'm not sure how this translator got you taunt me from te me amostras. The only thing I can think of is that it was intended as an extension of the meaning "to show off."Szfski (talk) 23:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

No mesmo sol te me amostras... Literally, "On the very sun you reveal yourself"; but I employed the phrase, "From the very sun you taunt me," because it carries implicit the literal translation and additionally states the purpose of the revelation by harking back to the fourth line of the first stanza, "to poke fun at her." Equally important the meter of the translation is preserved which allows the English lyrics to be sung to the same tune as the Galician lyrics are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EduardoFreireCanosa (talk • contribs) 14:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for answering these questions.
 * I'm not sure it's a good idea to make something explicit that the poem leaves implicit. There's got to be a better way to make the line singable, if that's what we want.  (A singable translation has its uses, but so does a literal translation.)
 * Why did you change "on" to "from"? Going by the example of Spanish, I would have used "in". &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 05:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome. Why "From"? Well, Rosalia is not on the sun so the sentence, "On/In the very sun you taunt me" would make little sense or be dangerously ambiguous at best. "From" conveys the right perspective: Rosalia is looking up at the sun and sees the Black Shadow instead of the bright orb. The Black Shadow taunts her from up there, from the face of the sun, by its very presence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.15.169 (talk) 02:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "From" seems just as literally impossible to me as "in" or "on", as it means she's there at the sun. (I'm posting this from New Mexico, which means I'm in New Mexico.)  But I guess it doesn't make much difference. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 02:47, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


 * If it's a singable, metrical version you all are after, that can be done. I just added a link to this translation of mine. Szfski (talk) 16:00, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Reply to Jerry Friedman: Here are several examples of the similar use of the preposition "From" by reputable publications,

"The black-clad girl taunted him from the magazine lying open on the floor" (The New Yorker).

"But Munoz stormed past him when the other man taunted him from across the road" (The Winnipeg Sun).

"As I taunted him from above, his eyes big with terror, that was my hour of triumph" (The Ludgate Illustrated Magazine).


 * I wasn't saying that "from" was ungrammatical or unidiomatic, just that it seemed farther from the original (as I understand). &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 18:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Reply to Szfski: If somebody knows how and has the time or desire to do it, following up on your initial suggestion, the two poems could be moved to WikiSource and there let anyone insert his/her particular translation. That done, a link to WikiSource could be placed on this page. It would be a shame to lose any of this.

comments
I too think the poems belong at Wikisource, not here.

Also, I have some doubts about the translations. For instance, why "sod"? In America the normal meaning is this, and in Britain the term is little used because it sounds like an obscenity. And is asombrar really "overshade" with no meaning of "amaze" like its Spanish cognate?

Finally, I think the informative and well-cited section on the Galician migration belongs in the section on migration of the Galicia article, with the briefest possible mention here. I'd suggest shortening the quotations and abbreviating them if necessary. Also, the writing is rather emotional; I think Wikipedia articles should let the facts speak for themselves. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Sod... (1) Turf. (2) One's native land. Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary. E.g. Marty Robbins: "This Peaceful Sod."


 * In my opinion, that meaning is obsolete and doesn't work in this case. You were right to leave it as "land".  If you're not convinced, we can ask more people.  By the way, in the Marty Robbins song, "sod" means "grass", not "native land". &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 23:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Marty Robbins: "I belong in this valley, on this peaceful sod." Only if Marty were a cow would he long to "live forever on this peaceful grass" (closing line of the song). The line makes sense if reworked as "Let me live forever on this peaceful native land" ("where my fathers have trod"). I left your contribution intact because it is not wrong per se and because I am not the sole editor of Wikipedia, everybody has the right to have his/her own say. However on my webpage I have indeed kept the term "sod." Even if "sod" sounds outdated that aspect doesn't hurt a poem which itself is more than a hundred years old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.15.169 (talk) 02:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, we clearly don't have to argue about it any more thanks to your constructive attitude, so I'll just say it wasn't my contribution but Dannycas's.
 * What do you think of moving the section on the Galician emigration to Galicia_(Spain)? &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 02:44, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Reply to Jerry Friedman. I think it's an excellent idea, however I don't have the energy to do it myself.
 * Okay, I may do that at some point. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 18:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Translation
Is there any reason in particular to go with these translations? Many of the choices seem rather sketchy. Here's a link, for example, that goes into the process of translation, and gets something considerably better than what is here (not to promote that particular translation). Keeping the meter so that it can be sung is a valiant goal, but if it ends up with bad English translations that undermine the tone or sound of the poem ("hem of my head pillows," "poking fun," "rumour"), it's not worth it.

At the very least, for Negra Sombra, "tornas facéndome mofa" could be "you come back again to mock me"; "gone" could be "left," "rumour" could be "murmur," And so on. User:Szfski's line (on his website he links to) "You are all and all becomes you" is much better than the current verse; "For me you live and in me you dwell," is what I might use instead of the current line, which is awkward; "Never to abandon me" could be next, and the last line would much better, as mentioned in the note, with "shades" instead of "haunts" because of the repetition of sound.

Anyways, I'm no expert, certainly neither in translation nor in gallego, but since the source of the translation is just some guy, not anyone particularly notable with regard to translation, I don't see any reason to stick perfectly to what is there. So I'm changing a few lines to what I think work better(being bold and all that) --feel free to add on/change/improve as you see fit.

zafiroblue05 | Talk 07:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

BTW: here's a translation of "Adiós ríos, adios fontes," keeping the rhyme scheme. Again, I'm not sure if maintaining this sort of strictness is worth awkwardness of phrase, but it's an attempt, and, for what it's worth, I think it's better than what's on the page right now.


 * Goodbye rivers, goodbye springs;
 * Goodbye creeks, I say goodbye;
 * O I hope we'll meet again.
 * On you I hope to set my eyes.


 * O my land, O my land,
 * Land of which I always knew,
 * Little orchard that love,
 * Dear fig trees that I grew,
 * Meadows, streams, wild groves,
 * Stands of pine the wind's toy,
 * Little birds that chirp and sing
 * The little cabin of my joy.
 * Clear nights under the moon,
 * The mill among the birch
 * In the night chiming bells
 * Ring around the parish church,
 * Blackberries fresh to pick
 * To my love I used to fly,
 * Little footpaths through the cornfields,
 * Good-bye, forever good-bye!


 * Good-bye, heaven! Good-bye, joy!
 * I leave the house where I was born,
 * I leave the town that I know
 * To a world I've never known.


 * I leave friends for strangers,
 * I leave the lowland for the sea,
 * I leave, in all, what I love...
 * O, I wish not to leave.


 * But I'm poor and—O sin!—
 * Not even my land is my own
 * So deep a debt I'm in
 * Even the road is out on loan.
 * Fate has always had me pinned.


 * I must leave here, this I say,
 * Little orchard that I loved
 * My old home's fireplace.
 * I once planted a small grove,
 * By the spring where we used to lay.


 * Goodbye, goodbye, I must go,
 * Leave the plants of holy fields,
 * Where my father lies below
 * Sacred blades I kissed so much,
 * Leave land that I call home.


 * Good-bye Virxe da Asunción
 * White as a holy seraph,
 * In my heart you I hold:
 * Plead with God on my behalf,
 * O my Virxe da Asunción.


 * Far, far away is heard,
 * The churchbells of Pomar;
 * Where I go—O, alas—
 * They will not ring so far.


 * Even farther still they ring,
 * I ache and ache with every gong,
 * I leave alone, without a friend...
 * Land of mine, so long, so long!


 * Goodbye to you, my little love...!
 * Goodbye forever, possibly...!
 * I send you this farewell, crying,
 * From the shore of the sea.


 * Don't forget me, little darling,
 * If I die of being alone...
 * So many leagues offshore...
 * My dear house! My dear home!''

zafiroblue05 | Talk 09:20, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Reply. That's a fine way to wreck Rosalia's poetry. Nevertheless you are as entitled to write your own translation as I was. Still I do reserve the right to erase my contribution completely. Please write your own version of "Black Shadow" if you want to and link to your webpage or put your name to it.68.179.15.169 (talk) 01:31, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

That was exactly my point. There's no reason to have amateur translations on the main page, me or you or anyone. The above version shows what happens when you translate so that it scans line by line equally with the same meaning, keeps the meter, and the rhyme as well. There was just an outside link and it seemed at first that the translation was official in some regard. zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Reply. Okay, the two appendices are gone.68.179.15.169 (talk) 13:28, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

On another note: since the translations linked to in the external links section are by me, and I'm the one who put the links there, it raises conflict of interest issues as per WP: Conflict of Interest. So I'll ask: do you all think the links are worth keeping? Szfski (talk) 04:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's a good idea to keep them, but there should still be the link to the originals at wikisource  zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:29, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Anonymous comment
Rosalia writes in Galician language and also in Spanish, but her contribution to the Spanish speaking poetry and tales is so high and important; I can't understand why you forget the sad an deep "En las orillas del Sar" or "El caballero de las botas azules". Only a poor nationalism can forget this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.156.128.81 (talk) 00:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 04:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)