Talk:Rosamund Pike/Archive 1

Archive 1

Incomplete

What's the point of dividing up this short article into four separate sections and then declaring each section unfinished? <KF> 19:35, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

P S And the article is not mentioned at Wikipedia:Requests for expansion either. <KF> 19:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Bond film succession box

I deleted the succession box because it was applied erroneously. It's only meant to be used for the main villain. Sophie Marceau was correctly listed as main villain for The World is Not Enough, but for some reason Pike was listed as the main villain for Die Another Day when it was Toby Stephens. There may be a succession box for henchmen, in which case Pike's character would qualify, but she doesn't qualify as either the main villain nor the main Bond girl in Die Another Day. 23skidoo (talk) 16:25, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Filmography

Why on earth is the director of each Film/Television show listed? When it comes to what things an actor has been in, the interesting things are the year, the name of the film/show, their character name, and in notes anything extra like on a TV show which episodes they were in. There's absolutely no value whatsoever in having the director listed there. The only way that would be interesting is if you wanted to know more about that film/show, in which case, that's what the hyperlink to it is there for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.174.65.104 (talk) 21:36, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

RfC: Should the lead section state the genre of the films she has appeared in, as set out in a WP:RS?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

NAC: The consensus is that the lede does not need to list and should not list the genres of the films in which she has worked. Since it currently does not, there is no need to change the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

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Should the lead section state the genre of the films she has appeared in, as set out in a WP:RS? It would look like this:

Rosamund Mary E Pike (born 27 January 1979) is an English actress. She first came to attention for playing Bond girl Miranda Frost in Die Another Day in 2002. Her best known film roles include the romance film Pride and Prejudice (2005), the spy spoof film Johnny English Reborn (2011), the fantasy adventure Wrath of the Titans (2012), the thriller Jack Reacher, and the sci-fi comedy The World's End (2013). In 2014, she starred in David Fincher's psychological thriller Gone Girl, which earned her over a dozen critics awards for Best Actress of the year and nominations for an Academy Award, a Golden Globe, a SAG Award, and a BAFTA Award.

OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 01:22, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

• COMMENT - My advice would be to avoid mentioning genre unless there is very wide agreement among many sources as to which genres apply - My experience from other articles is that there is often disagreement among sources as to genre... and this often leads to POV edit wars, as editors cherry pick the sources that support their own views on which genre applies to the subject. Blueboar (talk) 02:55, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
• No Actors work in too many different genres throughout their careers for this to ever be a valid statement. Pike herself is mentioned in everything from action films to comedies to character dramas to thrillers just as example films she has done. Films each have a genre. Actors do not. Period. oknazevad (talk) 05:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Comment: As a matter of interest, the articles for Jake Gyllenhaal and Maggie Gyllenhaal are Featured Articles and the leads name several genres of films they appeared in. The article for Angelina Jolie is a Featured Article and it has about five genres named in the lead. Ethan Hawke is a Featured Article and the lead names nine genres of films (I added the ninth). Kirsten Dunst and Reese Witherspoon are Featured Articles and they name several genres in the lead. The article for director Sidney Lumet, which I have not edited, has several mentions of film genres in the lead.OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 21:23, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

• The type of film can be described in her biography. It doesn't need to be in the lead unless she has notability of associating herself with a particular genre like "scream queen" or "king of pop" -AngusWOOF (talk) 21:38, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
• No As long as an actor is widely known for specific genres, i.e. Bond girl, porn, horror, etc, then it's perfectly acceptable, if not mandatory, to have that information in both text and intro. However, Pike has not been assigned by critics, the media or the public, in any notable way, to a specific kind of roles or a genre. Therefore, information about her career and film work should be confined to the main text and the intro should only include a standard, brief description of her career. -The Gnome (talk) 05:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Comment: The issue of "genres" in cinema is quite loaded, as evidenced by the very large amount of critical and theoretical work on the subject. Wikipedia should avoid, in general, taking sides or assigning labels in this context. It's a veritable minefield for an encyclopaedia. -The Gnome (talk) 05:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about the citing of genres in FA-class actor articles that I mentioned above. This shows that it is a practice that has some WP community support.OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 22:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

• Comment. The introduction of an example makes it clear that the proposal is entirely different from what I thought in my first comment. As such this RFC needs to be restarted so that fresh thoughts can be given. I had assumed, based on the original wording, that the idea was to attach a genre to the word "actress" in the lead, which is almost never appropriate, even for an actor/actress known almost entirely for work in a particular genre. (Then it might make sense to say "XX is an actress known for her work in horror films", for example.)

With that said, the proposal is to name the genres of the films mentioned in the lead, so as to make it clear what types of films they are (for those who haven't seen them) and therefore also highlight the diversity of roles the actor has worked in. On one hand, it might be a smart decision, as it does not assume the reader knows anything about the films themselves. On the other, it's extra wordiness for the lead, the genres of the films are in the lead of the articles on the films, which are only a link away, and the citations (which are of questionable need) are only tangentially related to the actual subject of the article and bloat the references list. So generally I wouldn't say it is needed. oknazevad (talk) 14:02, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

• No. My thinking echoes AngusWOOF and Oknazevad's above. There is really no need to list genres in the lede for an actor unless for some reason the actor is particularly notable as part of a genre (e.g. Jamie Lee Curtis as the "scream queen"). It's unnecessarily wordy and not an essential introduction to and/or summary of the article, which is what the lede is for. Willhesucceed (talk) 00:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
• No As currently formulated; per AngusWOOF and Oknazevad's above, but also because these details are off-topic to the subject of the article. If you wanted to make a specific point about the diversity of film genres she has acted in that might be different, but as formulated I'm not too keen on jamming the lead with details about films, when the article is about an actress. Rationalobserver (talk) 18:16, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Second middle name

Contrary to several online sources (mostly general filmography-type sites) stating that her name is 'Rosamund Mary Elizabeth Pike' (this apparently being simply an extrapolation based on the initial 'E' and what is doubtlessly a very commonly-encountered name beginning with that letter), sources such as http://companycheck.co.uk/director/915840583/MISS-ROSAMUND-MARY-ELLEN-PIKE (N.b.- I acknowledge that such sources cannot be included in an article, but it is here nonetheless for reference!) give the name as 'Ellen'. Given that this site (and others of the same sort) give the individual in question's birth year as 1979, and that there is only one record for the birth of a Rosamund Mary E. Pike in 1979 (indeed, only one appears for the entire period 1837-2006), plus the fact that no viable source provides the name 'Elizabeth', it can safely be concluded that the former Miss Pike's second middle initial stands for 'Ellen'. Just for anyone who might wish to know! (See also 'About correct date of birth' section above for her addressing the incorrect supposition that the 'E' stands for 'Elizabeth') Ashiyura (talk) 19:18, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Ashiyura, that's very helpful! But why do you think the source you found (or similar ones like [1], [2] or [3]) cannot be cited in the article? – Schneid9 (talk) 20:38, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

I had hoped it might be of use/ interest to someone besides myself, being as I tend to focus on these more minor matters (in Wikipedia as in life, I guess)! Oh, I might be wrong to think that using one of these sites as a source is impermissible; I thought that in the past I had used one for another article and that it had been subsequently reverted, but I might well be mistaken! I suppose that inclusion of the second middle name is perhaps more relevant in this case (particularly as we already have the second initial included on the page) than in others simply by virtue of the fact that Miss Pike (as was) specifically addressed the prevalence of the erroneous 'Elizabeth' in an interview. Is there a specific Wikipedia guideline page that might clarify whether we might use one of the sources we've identified? At any rate it's good to have it mentioned on the talk page (despite the fact that I don't know how commonly users tend to check them; I know I always do because discussion can illuminate matters from the article proper, but that's just me!), but it'd be nice to be able to include it in the article for completeness's sake. Ashiyura (talk) 21:51, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification! Then we better change the name in the article, too. I understand the inclusion of this kind of more private sources may feel somewhat "intrusive", although they are public records, but maybe we could just make a reference to this discussion instead, for those who may wonder. Too bad the sources don't include the correct birthday as well.. --Bemland (talk) 23:45, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations!

Congratulations on appearing on Wikipedia's main page as a "Did you know..." listing. I've been involved in the DYK process, (never successfully, I might add!) and so I know the time it takes and the coordination required between between editors...let's just say it isn't the easiest thing to accomplish. You deserve recognition, appreciation and applause. Thank you very much to all the contributing editors who made this listing possible.:The Very Best of Regards,
  Bfpage |leave a message  12:43, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

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About correct date of birth

It seems this article all from the beginning has stated that Rosamund Pike was born at 27 January, but in other sources – like Rosamund Pike/Archive 1 at IMDb – it says she was born at 28 January. Thus, the question is which date is the right one?--Bemland (talk) 23:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Last August, Pike said in an interview with the Austrian newspaper Kurier (my translation): “I know that all kinds of wrong information about me are circulating on the internet. None of them are true. Neither my date of birth nor my middle name nor my parents' occupation. Both are opera singers, and my mother isn't a concert violinist, as claimed. Neither do I speak the languages I allegedly know.” Three of these four mistakes appear on IMDb: 1. “Elizabeth” as her third Christian name (“Mary” as the second name is confirmed by the England and Wales Birth Registration Index); 2. “classical violinist mother”; 3. “speaks fluent German and French”. It therefore seems reasonable to suspect that IMDb's date of birth is the wrong one too. As you say, Wikipedia had 27 January from the very beginning in 2002 until 2011, when somebody changed it to 28 January for the first time (without citing a source). – Schneid9 (talk) 22:14, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Can you check what the information snapshot was back on those sources in June/July 2014? I wish she would just state her birth date in a RS article. And was she referring to IMDb, Wikipedia or the Internet in general (which would be very vague) -22:37, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, she was referring to the internet in general, which is certainly very vague, but since many websites rely on IMDb in cinematic matters, it probably doesn't make a big difference. I've been observing the Wikipedia article for years and as far as I can tell, all the mistakes crept in from IMDb. In August 2014, when Pike gave the above-mentioned interview, Wikipedia had 1. “27 January”; 2. “Elizabeth”; 3. “concert musicians/opera singers”; 4. “conversant in French and German”. – Schneid9 (talk) 23:11, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

So chances are likely that IMDb was wrong (and probably still is) on the birth date. I recommend keeping it at 27 January, given the non-IMDb RS's, and that the Wikipedia birthdate had been not screwed around with until 2011. -AngusWOOF (talk) 17:35, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Confusingly, this business website has now changed Rosamund's birth date to December 1978! – Schneid9 (talk) 15:37, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Privacy and sourcing

User:JayCoop has effectively reverted some of my recent edits, reintroducing Pike's supposed birth date and birthplace without adding any source. The edit summaries were "Privacy? They're public figures (like Dwayne Johnson) and "Clear as day on IMDB". How is Dwayne Johnson relevant? I cannot see any discussion of privacy issues in his article or its talk page. I had previously removed the information with the edit summary "Remove date of birth and age, unsourced and may be private, see WP:DOB". WP:DOB says:

With identity theft a serious ongoing concern, people increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private. Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object.

Public figures deserve some privacy. Many actresses try too keep their age private for professional reasons, and there is no evidence that Pike has released this information. It is not given in her page on her agent's website. We do not cite any source for date of birth or birthplace. The article previously cited a birth record document that is an unsuitable primary source, see WP:BLPPRIMARY.

JayCoop mentioned that IMDb gives this information ([4]). IMDb is not a suitable source for this. Wikipedia:Citing IMDb points out that much of IMDb's content is "user contributed with minimal and unstated editorial oversight by IMDb staff", and says that IMDb is unsuitable for citation for "any potentially contentious material about living persons".

I will remove this information from the article. Please do not restore them without adding a reliable source or discussing the issue here. Verbcatcher (talk) 01:22, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

@Verbcatcher: If you look at articles like Dwayne Johnson or Donald Trump, the date of birth or where they were born is there. Pike's date of birth from Biography.com. You can google this stuff and it's public knowledge. Jay Coop · Talk · Contributions 01:48, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for adding a source, which appears to be ok for citation. It does not mention Hammersmith, which I will remove. Saying "everyone else does it" is rarely a good defence. I was clear that these should be removed when they were unsourced. We still cannot claim that they have been "widely published by reliable sources". Googling things like this can easily give information originating from Wikipedia or other unreliable sources. However, I will not now remove the date of birth and birthplace unless other editors support this. Verbcatcher (talk) 02:19, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

@Verbcatcher: Well, I'm glad we sorted this out. Jay Coop · Talk · Contributions 02:36, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Name in Chinese here?

I noticed somebody's added her name in Chinese recently. I'm not familiar with that practice here, is there some consensus regarding that kind of additions at English language Wikipedia? The problem occurs if one starts to add articles' names/words in different languages, like Russian, Japanese, Korean, Greek, Arabian etc, it may become quite crowded.. Is this a good information to add here, considering there are parallell articles about the subjects in the other languages' versions with spellings etc? I don't think it's so practical.--Bemland (talk) 02:10, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

I now read about her being given a "Chinese name" by her spouse, and understand that's the reason for this addition.--Bemland (talk) 02:28, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

The text in the 'Personal life' section is sourced to a Chinese-language website. I don't understand Chinese, but Google Translate seems to indicate that the page is on this topic. I cannot judge how reliable this source is. Also, it is difficult to know whether the report only reflects Pike being formally polite and eager to please. However, if we accept the current text in Personal life section then it is reasonable to also accept the Chinese name in the lead. Can a Chinese speaker help us? Verbcatcher (talk) 02:39, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

I removed it from the lead. It isn't her official stage name for EN Wikipedia. On ZH Wikipedia, that's her preferred stage name so yes it's that in the header zh:裴淳华, although her transliterated name 羅莎蒙·派克 (google translated: Luó shā méng·pàikè) is listed there too. The second news article explains how her name was chosen but it was also something recent (2015 during Gone Girl promotions), so she might have used the transliterated name prior to that. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 03:18, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Chelsea Clinton

It isn't true that Rosamund was friends with Chelsea Clinton. In a 2002 interview she said:

'I wouldn't call her a mate as such,' says Pike, cautiously, 'but I was lucky enough to get to know her at Oxford. She was a very bright, interesting girl and a very strong person with strong ideas. We went to see Humble Boy at the Gielgud, and then five or six of us went out for dinner afterwards and we had a nice time, but nothing outrageous happened. It wasn't like we were both falling out of storerooms together or anything. Some of my friends know her quite well and I must admit, I'd quite like to get to know her better. We were going to hook up in New York when I was in the States doing publicity for Bond, but it didn't come off. She did tell me, though, that her dad was really excited when he heard I was doing the Bond film because he's such a massive Bond fan. He's got all the videos.'

109.84.184.73 (talk) 14:53, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

How in the world could this be relevant? And to what? Someone being friends with someone is not noteworthy, especially if the "other" person is not (yet) noteworthy. Ms Clinton may yet prove to be a force in this world, where everyone who is associated with her becomes a news story. She has not reached that level yet. 73.6.96.168 (talk) 15:38, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

It's relevant only insofar as it used to be (unnecessarily) included in the article. 75.97.20.2 (talk) 18:50, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Aquarius sign

Please provide the social media post or newspaper interview that confirms she says she is an Aquarius, but again, that only limits the range to two months. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 22:30, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

In the same Instagram post where the actress says she wasn't born on January 27th, there's a comment in reply to a follower where she confirms she's an Aquarius. --Tenebra Blu (talk) 10:12, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Tenebra Blu, the Instagram post only shows about 10 comments and it's not in any of those. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKi0_ATlfuA/ Does it show more if you're a subscriber/follower? AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 15:19, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

If I you scroll the comments in the app, you can find a follower's comment that says "are you implying you are not an aquarius", and the reply "I am definitely an Aquarius". --Tenebra Blu (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Moreover, there are some sources according to the actress was born on January 28th. --Tenebra Blu (talk) 16:57, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Tenebra Blu, the comments are limited to about 12 random comments if you are not registered on Instagram and those 12 don't have her response. It looks like you'd have to either sign in on Instagram and/or be a follower to see it. Also please provide any other sources if you can confirm 28th. Unfortunately it's not like Twitter where each comment/response is its own tweet that can be made public or private. Can you confirm whether the comments are filtered by Pike so only her followers can see? AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:04, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

I can read all the comments under the post both in the app and on PC even if I'm not following Pike. Sadly, you have to log in to read them. As for 28th: Made In Dagenham - Rosamund Pike interview. --Tenebra Blu (talk) 17:40, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Edit: even according to Rosamund Pike Updates, the actress was born on 28th January 1979. --Tenebra Blu (talk) 15:21, 12 February 2022 (UTC)