Talk:Ryan McBride Brandywell Stadium

Gaelic name
I find it very hard to believe that 'Brandywell stadium' translates into Irish:"Tobar an Fhíoruisce" meaning literally in english as "the well of pure water". Where is the reference for this?Factocop (talk) 16:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * As I interpret it it doesn't say that it translates into that, but that that's the Irish name for the stadium. I don't know whether that's true, and a quick internet search didn't turn up any reliable source for it. None of the news articles about the stadium mention it, and the primary source www.derrycityfc.net doesn't either. Only uk.soccerway.com does, but I wouldn't assume a "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" here. Concerning the reverts, I note that Factocop certainly wrote a rationale for removing that bit in his edit summary, and that generally for contentious material the "burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material" (WP:BURDEN and such). Amalthea  12:24, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it should at least carry a reference...but the problem lies with those who have made the reversions. They are not prepared to engage in discussion.Factocop (talk) 14:17, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, well given that there has been no response to my discussion, I'll assume that there is no objection to reverting back to my recent edits?Factocop (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Objection raised. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:37, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Because …? Amalthea  07:13, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Because that was only a ten-hour interval between Factocop's start of discussion and proposed end of discussion, and none of the people who have been reverting lately participated. That's not enough to judge consensus. Now that it's been an additional 14 hours, objection withdrawn.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:15, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You may find those that object, don't want to be dragged into something that is only slightly reminiscent of a "discussion" with Factocop. I think we all have encountered what it's like... --NorthernCounties (talk) 14:34, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine, talk to me then, this is a trivial issue, and should be simple to resolve. It's being removed for three weeks for being unsourced. Unless there is blatant disruption here of which I'm unaware, the burden is on you to provide verification. Now, I found a mention in a Gaelic document from the Derry City Council, but I have no idea whether it's about the Stadium, and I can't find a counterpart in English: Iarratais agus Foirmeacha – Eolas ar Chúnamh Deontais – Aguisín 3 (.doc) (Google translate). Can anyone show that this is a reference to the stadium? Amalthea  18:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

As there is no objection to this, I will remove the unsourced Irish Translation.Factocop (talk) 19:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

stop edit war-come here for consensus
It seems Factocop has not learnt his lesson, you are as much to blame as your opponent you didn't stop and continued reverting, stop and settle the argument here before your blocked again--Lerdthenerd (talk) 09:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I've warned both of you, don't think you can get at your opponent by reverting the article while they were blocked factocop--Lerdthenerd (talk) 09:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Lerdthenerd, just a few points. 1. NorthernCounties isnt blocked at the moment. 2. I reverted back to the original page which NorthernCounties edited and was subsequently blocked for edit-warring. 3. I started a discussion on the topic on this talk page and on NorthernCounties talk page. He is yet to respond to either. How am I guilty of edit warring again?Factocop (talk) 09:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * ahh there is a discussion on this page, nothern was blocked on the 28th (over this argument, if so feel free to remove my warrning), however im concerned by the edit history, feel free to trout me for my silly mistake--Lerdthenerd (talk) 10:12, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Am I ok to revert back to original? given that there is no objection to the removal of an irish translation with no reference or source.Factocop (talk) 10:27, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Factocop I think that you will find a reference given by Amalthea above. Which I have now added to the article. So lets leave it. Bjmullan (talk) 10:37, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Just a question but is that document actually about the stadium? as Amalthea was unable to find an english counterpart.Factocop (talk) 10:47, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I did a word search in that document and found the translation but whether that is referring to the stadium..who knows? If that is the correct irish name for the Brandywell then shouldnt the footnote have a reference aswell?This will probably take a bit of time to source so I will not revert back to the original, and I will give you some time to find this information. I hope you will try and answer these questions. The number of times I have asked questions in discussions and they have been ignored by users who oppose my edits only for the same users to to appear again when I make the same revision grows tiresome.Factocop (talk) 11:17, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I've observed you on several articles, and in multiple "discussions" as well. What I've noticed is that you make your point, someone points out how they believe you're wrong, you make your point again, someone else points out how they believe you're wrong, you make your point again, and yet another person points out how they believe you're wrong. Finally, those people get tired of having the same arguments over and over, so they just quit engaging with you. And then, when you make the edit that you were trying (and failing) to gather consensus for, you're reverted, and you claim no one will discuss it with you. Clearly people have felt your changes have often been controversial. That being the case, if you have failed to gather consensus for such changes, you should not make them. And you certainly shouldn't go right back to making them when you've just come off a block for edit-warring about the issue. Lithistman (talk) 11:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I would look again...if that is your conclusion. Now would you like to discuss the topic at hand?Factocop (talk) 12:12, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I've looked at it plenty. And I'm not interested in "discussing" things ith you when you seem to really just want everyone to acquiesce to your point of view. Lithistman (talk) 22:33, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Gaelic
There appears to be no question that the Irish call the stadium "Tobar an Fhíoruisce". That's the name given at the Gaelic wikipedia, for example. Breaking down "Tobar an Fhíor uisce" into its 4 base words, it translates most literally as "well the true water". Presumably the modifiers follow the noun, and "true" is not an adjective often used for water in English, so "the pure water well" or "the well of pure water" would work. This is not a controversial or contentious matter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The reference produced by Amalthea in Appendix A is a reproduction of the "Deprivation Index" available online at Northern Ireland Neighbourhood Information Service (NINIS). Using this link to download at the Ward Level for 2005 is best.  So yeah, it's the right translation.  --HighKing (talk) 19:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * One loose end would seem to be where the English name "Brandywell" came from. Obviously, brandy is not water. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:31, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * This english page may be of some help here --NorthernCounties (talk) 21:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Aha, the words for "Brandywell" by itself are "Thobar an Bhranda". Why the Irish call the location "pure water well" in Irish and "Brandywell" in English is a mystery. But thanks for the info. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:46, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The answer lies in the fact that Irish is far removed from most languages that have origins on the continent. Another example would be Cider, which directly translates to Apple Ale. There are many more examples I'm sure but I'm only the novice speaker! But no worries about the info --NorthernCounties (talk) 22:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

There is still no reference for the footnote...Factocop (talk) 09:17, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Also think the link provided by NorthernCounties should be used to reference the Irish name given that it has an english translation, although not exact. I'll fix it in a month time.Factocop (talk) 09:44, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Edit wars resuming after protection expires are still edit wars. I suggest getting consensus and putting in an editprotected request instead. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 11:36, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry Sarek, your a day late. Can you not fix this? Didnt think you needed permission to do anything anyway. Whats the point? I was just trying to envoke the change which YOU supported.Factocop (talk) 11:43, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * editprotected will bring an uninvolved admin in to judge consensus. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I still don't get why Facto is so hung up on this bit of mundane trivia. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a campaign against the Irish language plain and simple. Mo ainm  ~Talk  13:22, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Its not so much the trivia although the sources provided are still unreliable. Its the fact that Sarek supported the change, blocked a user for edit_warring then page protected the page with out reverting the blocked user's edits.Factocop (talk) 12:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You have been told at ANI that an admin is under no obligation to revert to a previous version in a content dispute. Do you not understand that? Mo ainm  ~Talk  13:22, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This claim that the sources are "unreliable" is a serious stretch. Who says Google translate is unreliable? And I've found other sites that agree with the translation. There's no issue here. Is it, in fact, some prejudice against the Irish language, as Mo Ainm claims, using "unreliable sources" to disguise the "real reason"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Mo, be very careful with your wording. This is an encyclopedia, and as such content should be based on fact. This is a campaign for accuracy and Neutrality but unfortunately you and your posse seem intent on throwing in pointless Irish translations into every controversial article, and removing anything associated with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I have no problem with the use of the Irish Language, despite only 3% of the entire Island of Ireland fluent speakers, but it should only be used where it is applicable and with proper sourcing.Factocop (talk) 13:36, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * What controversy? Where is there a controversy in this article? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Baseball_Bugs, in the source provided, which is entirely in Irish, can you find any mention of Brandywell Stadium or pure water well? The Irish language is seen as controversial, despite not widely spoken due to its adoption by Irish Reoublicans in Northern Ireland.Factocop (talk) 13:49, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Where is the controversy in this particular article? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Well this just seems like another case of Irish Republicans using the language just for the sake of it without proper referencing. Again answer me this, in the source provided, which is entirely in Irish, can you find any mention of Brandywell Stadium or pure water well?Factocop (talk) 13:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Bugs, you're best avoiding interaction with Factocop, as he appears to only have a vindetta against the Irish language. And those who support the Irish language are Republicans by defacto. Further any suitable arguement or reference you or many other editors bring to the forum are automatically ignored and as a result s/he asks the question again. It is altogether very time consuming. And Factocop... please stop referring to me in every other edit. It's becoming an obsession that I was blocked. --NorthernCounties (talk) 14:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Further to this bugs, it might be useful to read this --NorthernCounties (talk) 14:35, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

NC, I have already said that I am happy to use the source you have provided. what is your problem? I never said those who support the Irish language are Republicans by defacto. That is a mistake. NorthernCounties is famed for editing on controversial pages with a distinctly anti-british flavour.

On this topic, I never ignored anyone answers. The problem is that youself included seem to be answering questions I didnt ask and ignoring the questions I did, for lack of a good reason for a revert.

Like I have already said, I am happy enough to use the source provided by NC as it shows the translation between english and Irish. What is wrong with that?Factocop (talk) 15:03, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

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