Talk:Salvatore Fisichella

Please don't use ALL CAPS!
This is a polite request to the editor using ALL CAPS to put names etc. in upper and lower case. ALL CAPS is not used on WP because it looks bad typographically. Thanks! -- Klein zach  10:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Il ’’Bellini D’Oro’’ up until 1994

 * I Premiati

Francesco Pastura (alla memoria) Maria Gentile Franco Lo Giudice Gino Marinuzzi (alla memoria) Luciano Pavarotti Friedrich Lippmann Giulietta Simionato Ferruccio Tagliavini Joan Sutherland Tito Schipa (alla memoria) Giuseppe Di Stefano Leyla Gencer Margherita Carosio Giacomo Lauri Volpi (alla memoria) Caludio Muzio (alla memoria) Francesco Nicolosi
 * 1968 - Vittorio Gui
 * 1969 - Gianandrea Gavazzeni
 * 1971 - Elena Suliotis
 * 1972 - Montserrat Caballe
 * 1975 - Renata Scotto
 * 1977 - Mario Filippeschi
 * 1981 - Alfredo Kraus
 * 1985 - Gina Cigna
 * 1987 - Nicolai Gedda
 * 1988 - Richard Bonynge
 * 1989 - Fiorenza Cossotto
 * 1990 - June Anderson
 * 1991 - Mariella Devia
 * 1993 - Piero Cappuccilli
 * 1994 - Salvatore Fisichella

Source - Libro: Premio Bellini D'Oro 1994, Teatro Massimo Bellini, Catania, 16 Ottobre 1994 Azienda Autonoma Provinciale Per L'Incremento Turistico.

--Luis Miguel31 (talk) 19:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

***Please don't delete other people's comments***
This page is a record of discussions about this article so comments by other people should never be deleted. -- Klein zach  00:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Fisichella as a Bellini specialist
The second paragraph now reads:  "He is considered the only tenor during the 20th century to have played and sung the major opera roles of the cigno'' catanese Bellini." ''

I think this needs further explanation under a new section. I've already discussed this with Luis Miguel31 on my talk page but I think we need to ask some questions here: -- Klein zach  00:04, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1. What are the 'major opera roles' of Bellini? Do they include Elvino in La Sonnambula? Has SF sung Elvino? Has he sung Salvini in Adelson e Salvini, Fernando in Bianca e Fernando, and Corasmino in Zaira?
 * 2. It's claimed that SF has sung Romeo in I Capuleti e i Montecchi - normally a mezzo role. Is there a reliable precedent/reference for this?
 * 3. Has SF sung more roles than Luciano Pavarotti (who recorded at least 5 parts - Arturo (Puritani), Pollione (Norma), Elvino (La Sonnambula), Orombello (Beatrice), and Tebaldo (I Capuleti e i Montecchi)), Nicolai Gedda (who recorded at least 4 parts - Arturo (Puritani), Elvino (La Sonnambula), Tebaldo (I Capuleti e i Montecchi), Pollione (Norma), and Orombello (Beatrice)), Giuseppe Di Stefano (who recorded Arturo (Puritani) +?), Tito Schipa (Elvino +?), Fernando De Lucia and the other bel canto specialists of the 20th century etc.?
 * He may be a Bellini specialist, but the article does not support this assertion: "He is considered the only tenor during the 20th century to have played and sung the major opera roles of the cigno catanese Bellini". First of all, the wording implies that no other tenors have sung leading Bellini tenor roles. Rockwell Blake, for example has performed on stage in La straniera, Il pirata, La Sonnambula, and I puritani. Secondly, it implies that Fisichella has sung all the major Bellini tenor roles. However, while Fisichella's repertoire list in the article lists Beatrice di Tenda, I Capuleti e i Montecchi (Romeo) and (Tebaldo), I puritani, Il pirata, La straniera and Norma (although no references are currently provided to verify this), it does not list Adelson e Salvini, Bianca e Fernando, Zaira and most importantly La sonnambula. Arguably the first three are relatively minor works (and very rarely staged today), but Sonnambula certainly isn't.


 * Even so I'd say that his total number of Bellini tenor roles performed on stage (I don't count studio recordings in this respect) is probably larger than any other 20th century tenor. As for Romeo in I Capuleti e i Montecchi, there is a tenor version of that role. Giacomo Aragall sang it a La Scala under Claudio Abbado in 1966. I think the quoted assertion above would be better rephrased to something like "No 20th century tenor has sung as many Bellini tenor roles on stage". But of course, the article needs to provide some kind of verification for all the roles sung. From the reviews and photographs on his Fisichella's web site, he certainly appears to have sung Norma, Straniera, Pirata, Puritani, and Beatrice di Tenda on stage. Beautiful voice, by the way! Voceditenore (talk) 10:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This is what it says in the award (Bellini D'Oro Prize) given in 1994.
 * Azienda Autonoma Provinciale Per L'Incremento Turistico, Premio Bellini D'Oro 1994 Catania, 16 Ottobre 1994 - Ore 20,30 - Teatro Massimo Bellini, Le motivazioni del premio:
 * Salvatore Fisichella. "Continuatore ideale della grande tradizione vocale della provincia etnea, Salvatore Fisichella, dotato di straordinaria facilita e lucenterra, specie nel registro acuto e sovacuto, per come postura la scrittura musicale belliniana, risulta meritevole a pieno titolo del riconoscimento, per essere stato l'unico tenore del secolo ad aver interpretato in teatro i maggiori ruoli lirici del repertorio del Cigno catanese."
 * Luis Miguel31 (talk) 15:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is that even though the official prize says that, the way it's worded simply isn't true. To say in English (or Italian) that he is "the only tenor during the 20th century to have played and sung the major opera roles of the cigno catanese Bellini" means that no other 20th century singer has sung any leading tenor roles by Bellini. It also strongly implies that he's sung all the major Bellini tenor roles. If he hasn't sung Elvino in La sonnambula, then that isn't true either. Instead of using a translation of that quote as it stands. I would word the lead paragraph differently. In fact, I'm going to nip over the article and do it now, and then we'll see what you and other editors think of the new wording. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 16:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The new wording clarifies this issue well, but it would be better to put the text in the 'Accolades, awards and distinctions' section where I think it belongs. -- Klein zach  00:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the original Italian text of the Bellini prize commentary which I had put in the ref for that rewording? I hadn't seen that the English version was already in the Accolade section. So, I removed it from the first ref and added it to the ref in the Accolade section. Wikipedia recommends that wherever possible, the original language text should be provided in a footnote, if an English translation has been used in the body of the article. Voceditenore (talk) 09:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I meant  "In 1994, he was awarded the Bellini D’oro prize . . . any other 20th century tenor."  Normally this kind of thing goes in an awards section. Here it is given unusual prominence. -- Klein zach  11:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see what you mean. Have fixed it now. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:25, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyviol: Biography sections copied and pasted from www.salvatorefisichella.it
The Biography sections have all been copied and pasted from http://www.salvatorefisichella.it/biography.html in a potential copyright violation. Is there any reason why they shouldn't be removed? -- Klein zach  00:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I refer to you message above, which is noted. Please note that it is not a copyright violation as I represent Maestro Salvatore Fisichella here in wikipedia.  All the materials I have (texts, newspapers clippings, other sources) came from him.  At the same time, I have been cross referencing this with other websites along the way to make the article verifiable.  This is a serious article. I am very new here in wikipedia and I feel that you are harrassing me.   You have been visiting and editing this article some days after I set up the article here in wiki.  You would notice & edit my formatting and other small things,...  You have been coming to this article every day with small edits.  WE had a discussion yesterday of the entry of SF being the foremost perfomer of Bellini's works in the 20th century (1901-1999) and about the Sicilian Tourist Authories awarding him that prize (and the former being the motivation for the award). I have proven these with newspaper articles and other references.... but, in you opinion, you are not convinced.... And today, it seems very odd that you now accuse the article of copyright violation ...even after several edits you've made.... I have cited my sources...and you can find them entered under sources. This is frustrating me....  I do hope you do not work for the Wikipedia, as you put them in a bad light with the way you are behaving....  Please do not tag the article with vandalism or whatever....  We are all adults here and I believe we should act our age.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luis Miguel31 (talk • contribs) 08:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)  -Luis Miguel31 (talk) 08:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * First of all stop deleting the Copy and Paste tag. As the article now stands it's a copy from another website and that isn't allowed on WP. If Fisichella has really authorized the use of the material he should contact WP. Until that happens you should remove the material. The same goes for the pictures. I am currently editing several pages and articles. I don't have a particular interest in this page. I found it by accident and saw that it it had multiple problems -hence my involvement. -- Klein zach  08:28, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I will ask him to contact Wikipedia NOW. Kindly refrain from further tagging/ vandalizing this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luis Miguel31 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Luis, it doesnt matter whether you are representing him or not. What you can do is to do some editing in the wording, so it sounds a bit different. From what I see, his biography now is a replica of http://www.salvatorefisichella.it/biography.html. This is not allowed in Wikipedia. - Jay (talk) 08:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * One more, could you please justify the usage of "fair use" for all the images in the article? Not only you cant copypaste the text, you cant upload photos without the permission of the owner, in this case, The Met or the photographer. - Jay (talk) 08:51, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * : The user named Storkk helped me on that already. Thank you for your concern.

--Luis Miguel31 (talk) 09:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Once again: Don't delete!
Luis Miguel31: Once again don't delete sections as you did here. That is considered disruptive on WP. -- Klein zach  07:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Do not raise your tone on me.... You do not have the right to write to me in that tone. Please refrain. I am not a blogger, a chatter of any sort. ..

--Luis Miguel31 (talk) 08:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Please put the biography section in userspace
Luis Miguel31: If you intend to rewrite the biography section to meet WP requirements, can you please do that in your own userspace? In the meantime can you remove the copy and pasted 'copyviol' material? -- Klein zach  08:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Kleinzach,
 * I've already asked Mr. Fisichella to e-mail Wikepedia (info-en-o@wikimedia.org, info@wikimedia.org). I shall move the biography for now.

--Luis Miguel31 (talk) 09:22, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Can you also clarify about the pictures? Perhaps they should also go onto your user page if they are not public domain? -- Klein zach  10:02, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

FYI
Da: Salvatore Fisichella [mailto:opera@salvatorefisichella.it] Inviato: venerdì 25 luglio 2008 12.04 A: 'info-en-o@wikimedia.org'; 'info@wikimedia.org' Oggetto: authorization about use my materials in wikipedia

Dear Sir/MadameI refer to the english article written about me, Salvatore Fisichella.Please note thatI hereby authorized the use of the materials found in my own website's biography page,which is www.salvatorefisichella.it/biography.hyml, for use in the article written about me in your website. Salvatore Fisichella —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luis Miguel31 (talk • contribs) 10:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * We shall wait for the reply from Wikipedia. Thank you. --Luis Miguel31 (talk) 10:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Style problems: making this more encyclopedic and less like a fan site
Assuming the copyright problems for both pictures and biography text have been resolved (have they?), we need to consider how to make this more like a proper encyclopedia article - which has to be neutral in tone and less like a fan site (full of hyperbole etc). How are going to do this? -- Klein zach  10:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I see the Fansite and Fancruft tags have been removed - unfortunately the style of the article remains unencyclopedic. An article in WP should really be factual. -- Klein zach  23:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Typography problems
Tis article still has lots of typography problems. Please note that on Wikipedia we italicize names of operas (e.g. Tosca) but names of people and roles etc. are in roman (e.g. Verdi, Iago). -- Klein zach  13:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Permission granted
Through the OTRS system, the following content has been released under the General Free documentation license. http://www.salvatorefisichella.it/biography.html. ——  nix eagle 19:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Revisiting 2008 discussion
Same problems persist. The text copied from the subject's website is not acceptable, per WP:RELIABLE, WP:NPOV and WP:COI. I've tagged it, and will likely take it to the BLP noticeboard, since this has persisted for years. 99.136.254.88 (talk) 15:47, 18 February 2013 (UTC)