Talk:Sanjaya Malakar

"Somehow"
In the interest of neutrality I don't think we should include he has "somehow" made it through to the final 11. There is no doubt about the fact that he made it through as a result of a popular vote. The word "somehow" implies this is in dispute, which is not the case. HE is the worst singer in the world and this was not hair idol.


 * I am pretty sure that the “somehow” pertains to “how is he getting the votes?”. I know that I personally have a hard time believing that many people think that he is a good singer—of course, that is something of an opinion, but I know that I would stop listening to any radio station myself that would air his “music.”  I don’t personally think that he can sing worth a rat’s behind.  —Mike Trausch Fd0man • Talk to me 03:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You are correct, somehow is a POV word. Thanks. --  Zanimum 16:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The View
Why is this page protected? If you're going to mention that Howard Stern wants him to win, you might mention also that many other hosts, like the women on the View, have repeatedly talked about how he doesn't deserve to be where he is, and that he is 'tone deaf'. Let's include it! Just Another Fat Guy 17:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The page is protected to deal with rampant vandalism.


 * Yes, many shows have hosts who've dissed Sanjaya. However, we need a published source, or at least a blog, confirming your statement that they have made such statements. --  Zanimum 16:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

VFTW
Shouldnt this article mention that the only reason he is still in the show is because of the mobilized efforts of VFTW? it really needs to be cited.--Gigaguyser 13:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that this is the only reason he's still in the show. Thus, the mention that they picked him is enough. --  Zanimum 16:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree, while VFTW and Stern takes most of the credit, I believe the tween fanbase keeps him going. Either way, none of this is provable, so it should not be included Yearsago 14:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It should not be included: it's not provable. That, and he was already in the Top 12 before he was VFTW's pick anyway (Sundance Head was their pick until he was eliminated)144.71.77.200 14:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Indians voting for him
Chip Franklin from WBAL has jokingly suggested that people in India wake up in the wee hours of the morning to vote for him... --PeanutCheeseBar 12:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe that their computers only accept votes from American phone numbers. --  Zanimum 16:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It was meant as a follow up (joke) comment to Mike Trausch's comment; there's obviously nothing to back up what I said. --PeanutCheeseBar 16:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Howard Stern started this rumor inadvertently by making a joke about it. He was not serious.

I think that this may actually be true. It is possible to run a computer program using some online telephone service that gives a US phone number. Also, many US numbers are blocked, such as mine, and I can still vote.
 * Blocked numbers become automatically unblocked when calling toll free numbers.  Ungovernable Force  Poll: Which religious text should I read? 07:03, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This is u, unlikely, because they the show at a different than the US, which is too late of a time to be able to vote. -  hmwith  talk   20:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

native spelling
Does anybody know how his name is spelled in the Hindi or Bengali alphabet?
 * Sanjay Malakar in Bengali - সঞ্জয় মালাকার. Hindi is irrelevant since he is of Bengali ethnicity. Gnanapiti 04:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am a Bengali editor; Sanjaya Malakar is actually pronounced as Shonjoya Maalaakaar (Ṣonjoya Mālākār) in his native Bengali language.--Pinaki ghosh 01:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you know that that is his native language? He was born in the U.S. Should we give the Irish-language spellings for every American of Irish heritage?  Moncrief 18:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It made no sense. Just because his great-great grandfather may have been Bengali, or something obscure like that, doesn't mean his article needed to show this so blatantly. It was deleted by User:Hojimachong. --68.109.149.66 05:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

His father is Bengali, so it's not obscure per se. How closely affiliated he, himself, is with the culture is debatable, so I'd agree it shouldn't be overly highlighted. 144.71.77.200 16:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
The NPOV tag was added by User:Mientkiewicz5508 with the comment
 * Phrases like "despite criticism from all the judges" and everything else make this sound like a Sanjaya lovers article.

We should address this quickly so the tag can be removed. Remember Wikipedia policy is to not remove it until there is a consensus that the POV problems are solved. Gnixon 14:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the comment. Does he mean it sounds like an anti-Sanjaya article?  The article seems very neutral and un-POVish to me.  Does anyone think it's POVish somewhere?  Gnixon 14:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know. After reading the article, I just was very annoyed with the "I love Sanjaya" overtones. One line in particular Despite the criticism from all three judges, Malakar has made it through to the Top 10 (although he came close to elimination on March 14, 2007, when he was in the Bottom 3).-- It makes it sound like poor Sanjaya is being picked on by the judges but he has triumphantly made it to the Top 10. After learning that he made the top 40, Sanjaya did not immediately celebrate and instead went to console his sister. makes him sound heroic, and I'm not sure that the particular sentence is even necessary, as the article is not actually about his sister, but about Sanjaya. Malakar hails from Federal Way, Washington--again with the "triumphant" feeling. Simply saying Malakar was born in Federal Way, Washington would suffice I believe. Also, the article could stand being without describing Tood Beamer High School as "newly developed". It's not relevant to Sanjaya and once again makes it sound like the perfect and amazing Sanjaya transferred to the school for the lavish lifestyle/environment of a newly developed school. If he did indeed transfer there (and you can find a reference for this) because the school was newly developed, that would be one thing, but I find that description is unnecessary. Perhaps I'm being overly picky and in a foul mood, but it just seems to me that it's very "I Love Sanjaya"-ish. I also am particularly annoyed by the fact that he's listed as a "singer" and that it is his occupation as well. To the best of my knowledge the contestants don't actually receive money while on the show and thus aren't making a salary/living as a singer. He's a contestant on a reality talent show. That's it.Mientkiewicz5508 15:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * He's a singer because he got a job to sing on a reality singing competition show. All of the AI contestants have this in their "occupation." He wasn't born in Federal Way, I'm guessing he was born in either Seattle or some other Seattle suburb. The "newly developed" is in front of Beamer High because it's serving as a bit of an explanation of why he transferred, likely because his address got rezoned to the new school in Federal Way whereas Shoreline is farther. I agree with Gnixon, the article is neutral & un-POV -- maybe it's just you. Elle Bee 16:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've just read this article and I don't think it's non-NPOV at all. The concerns that Mientkiewicz mentions above are silly.  It's not POV to say "Despite criticism...."  It's a boring fact: all of the judges criticized him, and yet he still progressed to the top 10.  How else could it be phrased?  "Hails" is a neutral word when it means "comes from" - it doesn't mean "Hail, Sanjaya!"  And the high-school was opened in 2003, so it's newly-developed.  How can that possibly mean that Sanjaya is being unduly favoured? ...  disco spinster   talk  02:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think most of the statements are presented very factually, but I replaced "hails" with "is from" and rephrased the sentence about him making the top 10. Can you re-read it and see if it still seems POVish to you?  Notice nowhere is anyone praising Sanjaya---if you happen to think he looks heroic because of the judges' criticism and his behavior with respect to his sister, I'm not sure that's saying anything about the article.  :)  Let's try and get everyone satisfied and remove the tag ASAP. It would be best if Mientkiewicz5508 removed it himself. Gnixon 14:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Great! Mientkiewicz5508 removed the tag.  Thanks, everyone.  Gnixon 22:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Tears of Joy??
The article currently says: "performance in the Top 11 episode, crying tears of joy, although ..."

Once again, another example of an unverifiable claim. The most we can say is that she was shown on TV, crying. It is possible that she was crying because he grandmother died, or maybe she has an emotional mental disorder. EITHER WAY, we can't say that, all we can say is, SHE WAS CRYING! - Abscissa 13:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17745094/ good enough for a cite?--Koncorde 16:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

It was definitly stated later she was crying tears of joy. She acctually followed him to New York during one of his interview.

71.62.46.254 03:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Ferl was invited to appear on a talk show in NY at the same time that Sj was in NY and it was hyped as her following him. Ace Young said she cried whenever he talked to her too. Girl is unstable and cries for money at this point. Username 2554 12:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

controversy?
The "Controversy" section currently reads:

Sanjizzza sucks --- but evree wun keeps votin' fo him my nizzle. 7]

A few American Idol fans who use MySpace have claimed to be on hunger strikes until he is voted off.[8] Conversely, a 13-year-old girl named Ashley Ferl was highlighted repeatedly during Malakar's performance in the Top 11 episode, crying tears of joy, although Ferl also cried for Melinda Doolittle and many other contestants.[9] The controversy and fan reaction were satirized on the March 24, 2007 broadcast of Saturday Night Live, during the Weekend Update segment (the show's musical guest for the night was Carrie Underwood, the winner of the fourth season of American Idol).[10]

Simon Cowell has threatened to leave American Idol if Malakar wins. Some commentators also believe that if Malakar wins, it could be a shark jumping moment for American Idol.[11]

What exactly is the controversy? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.178.78.17 (talk) 23:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC).


 * The controversy is that he is an obviously horrible singer, and this is no longer a singing competition. Mechasam 16:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If nobody's gonna respond I'm gonna take out that section somehow. --24.178.78.17 04:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The information in that section is worth keeping, but maybe Controversy isn't the best title. Do you have any suggestions for a different title or what content to add/remove? Gnixon 16:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * What about Media Buzz?  If you go to google, sanjaya has more than 2,000 news articles in the past month, and more than 15,000 blog mentions.  Not to mention the Numerous Youtube clips, from viewers to more professional areas (celebtv, jimmy kimmel, bill o'reilly etc).  Good or bad, he has serious media buzz  Yearsago 14:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Controversy creates $$$. It's true, IT'S DAMN TRUE! GamerZX101 00:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Except for curiously strong emotions ranging from anger to crying, really now, it was not as severe as a 'controversy', maybe just like a difference in judging criteria - quality of entertainment vs. vocal renditions.

Anybody got a better way to describe 'shark jumping'?

Username 2554 19:48, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Gross misinformation.
What is going on here? The article is locked (understandably so), but there are hateful sentences and complete misinformation left throughout the article:
 * 1) After learning that he made the top 40, Sanjaya immediately celebrated and forgot to console his sister. -- everyone who watched knows this is blatantly false
 * 2) and was voted into the Top 10, although he will soon be eliminated. -- what in the world?
 * 3) and forgot most of the words to the song, while just screaming it. -- again, this is completely unacceptable
 * 4) to make fun of Sanjaya -- this needs to be rephrased; it makes it sound like Seacrest did it in a mean spirited manner
 * 5) Once again, Malakar avoided the Bottom Three and out of pure luck entered the Top 9. -- again, unacceptable

Look, I dislike Sanjaya as much as the next person, but what happened to neutrality here? Can someone with the power to edit protected pages make an attempt at fixing these?

LOL. I think there should be a seperate page just to vandilize about Sanjaya. GamerZX101 00:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

...If you wanna vandalize, go to Uncyclopedia or other content-less wiki. (Posted by an anonymous contributor) 189.153.1.127 05:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

"although he will soon be eliminated" is clearly opinion-wording and should be removed or revised. 144.71.77.200 16:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

POV concerns
I added a NPOV tag due to some comments on the article: unsubtantiated statement "All the media hates him". judgemental statement "After learning that he made the top 40, Sanjaya immediately celebrated and forgot to console his sister", unsubstiantiated speculation "although he will soon be eliminated", etc. My concerns are addressed by latest edits from Jmartin5 and Tenjikuronin so I believe the tag can be removed now. Lpm 16:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Great! Thanks for raising the issue.  Gnixon 18:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
I was going to add a citation to the triva section but I dont know how. Can someone else do it for me because the one trivia thing we do have I think needs to stay becuase it shows his growing popoluarity but it doenst offer a citation which I know will make some people mad. Rosario lopez 21:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think there's much citation wise you would need to do for it. It's fine the way it is right now. Darrik2 20:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

American Idol.com interview
His profile and interview questions from AmericanIdol.com should be added. It is availible at http://www.americanidol.com/contestants/season6/sanjaya_malakar/ 68.33.214.160 23:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)Ryan 4/2/07
 * Please post new entries at the bottom of the page. Top posting is frowned upon. Thanks. Elle Bee 21:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Jimmy Kimmel
Should Jimmy Kimmel be included under the title controversy? KImmel has had at least 4-5 clips/montages about sanjaya. Also 'The Soup' with 'House of Sanjaya Yearsago 14:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

External links - VFTW
Since you mentioned Vote for the Worst, wouldn't it be reasonable to add it to the external links? It's not really a fansite or a blog. Hmwith 15:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen this video spoof of him?
http://www.hollywoodsquared.com/videos/sanjaya-easter-greeting/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.203.188.117 (talk) 00:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Girls name
The thirteen year old girls name should not be on this site. There was a controversy over including a famous kid hacker a while back, and his name was not included. She is only thirteen and whether or not Wikipedia policy bans it is irrelevant, IMHO.(OR even if all the newstations say her name). For her sake please remove it. (or at the very least her last name) 74.137.230.39 03:28, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * She was in the news and on the Today show. Her name stays, first and last. That's all. Elle Bee 13:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * She has also made several TV appearances since she was on the show. The full name needs to stay. Michael 16:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Early years
Do we know for certain that his Dad is Bengali. The article that is used as the citation only mentions that he is East Indian and nothing about being Bengali.
 * I am a Indian Bengali user and I can assure for certain that Malakar is a Bengali surname only. This surname does not occur with other ethnicities other than Bengalis. Bengali people largely live in Eastern India and Bangladesh besides other places like Europe and USA.--Pinaki ghosh 03:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * "Malakar" does occur as surname in people other than Bengali. Its a very famous surname of Newar people who live in Nepal and Eastern India. In fact, if you try "Malakar Nepal" in google, you can see a list of pages with mention of Newar Malakars. Thanks.--Eukesh 04:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Name
Sanjaya's real name is Bill Vendell.

Sanjaya released a 2nd video for the confused people that it was a joke (not really a hoax - since it was not intended to really confuse), after he releasing the video "I am Art" with Will Ferrell in which they created Bill Vendall who said he created Sanjaya Malakar. It was funny, and confused people were even funnier. No offense - it was just very funny. Username 2554 17:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

bathwater
Just did a revert and wanted to explain it. I usually don't like YouTube links, but look at this one. Malakar did clearly fumble the words after the 1st chorus. After "attractive women". I didn't hear him sing the word "bountiful". Fumbled right over it. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 08:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Picture
Wait, so why can't that picture of him be used in the infobox at the top right corner? Hmwith 09:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Generally, we do not use fair use pictures in infoboxes. From the policy:


 * "Fair use images may be used only in the article namespace. Used outside article space, they are not covered under the fair use doctrine. They should never be used on templates (including stub templates and navigation boxes) or on user pages."


 * Infobox is a template. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 10:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I didn't know that yet. I guess I'm still a newb. Thanks! - Hmwith 17:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Finally a much needed photo. Thanks to TriviaKing. Username 2554 17:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Auto peer review
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Elle Bee 14:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
 * See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.[?]
 * If this article is about a person, please add  along with the required parameters to the article - see Persondata for more information.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “ All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Question Accuracy of Quote attributed to Jennifer Lopez
I would like to have the source of the quote posted in this article verified. Jennifer Lopez is on record publically expressing support for Sanjaya Malakar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Samp46 (talk • contribs) 05:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC).
 * It was in the show, right before he sang. I can source it with a video if you'd like. Also, Tony Bennet said how much he likes Sanjaya the week before. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.252.89.12 (talk) 17:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I can't add the source since the page is protected. You can watch the video here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NmpgD7WAiB4 128.252.89.12 (talk) 17:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

Song Title
Can someone please change the link to the last song he sang, there is a real link but the song title is wrong Just go to the American Idol page to see it. Stupid lock. User:BioYu-Gi! April 17, 2007 9:00 p.m.
 * ✅ Done. ... disco spinster   talk  01:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Discussion Page
I was wondering if it's even precedented to do this, but can the discussion page for this article be locked from unregistered users or those that have only been registered for a short period of time? Even a quick glance reveals that the majority of discussion on this article has nothing to do with its content or quality. Yossarianisdead 04:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I second...this talk page needs to be locked and cleaned from uncivil comments.Rosa 08:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I third that. We have multiple copy/pastes of the vote for the worst web page in the middle fo this discussion page, it needs to be locked, and cleaned up. Ryuko2001 15:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * How exactly are anons and new users supposed to suggest changes then? They can't edit the article, and if the discussion page is locked they can't even discuss it. Borisblue 21:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been done lots of times. See the releveant pages at WP:PROT. Who cares, he's finally gone now, and it's about DAMN time. -Phoenix 02:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

April 18, 2007
Is it worth considering to put a temporary spoiler warning about his elimination until the show airs on the west coast? Not sure what the precedent is compared to other American Idol articles. JRHorse 02:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Meh, I say put it up. If they are reading this article they probably know or are trying to find out.TIinPA


 * Jeez, the show hadn't even aired on the West Coast, let alone around the world. Not everyone wants to be spoiled; I've removed it from the first graph and put a spoiler tag on the section with the results. Ckessler 03:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Sanjaya wasn't born in Seattle
I remember him saying that he lives in Lacey, WA. Also, Q13 Fox News mentioned that he lived in Federal Way, WA, so there's probably some misleading information to protect him. 209.91.61.251 03:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't really matter, he lived 20 minutes away from Seattle anyway, so why not tell viewers the city they've heard of.
 * You must not be from around here - Federal Way is almost an hour from Seattle. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.183.103.142 (talk) 05:00, 16 May 2007 (UTC).

Conspiracy
I couldn't vote for Sanjaya last week because of the busy signals. Fox may have given his phone number fewer lines to force him off.

There are lots of theories out there: http://www.google.com/search?q=idol+votes

Or maybe the people who were playing the practical joke decided to stop? Armyrifle 21:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Armyrifle, you need to broaden your view of the world. Not everyone who voted for Sanjaya did it for a joke. I, for one, voted for him several times every week... and I didn't do it as a joke. Not the slightest bit. And I'm not the only one. -  hmwith  talk   21:57, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The producers can do whatever they want. However, this situation is getting to the press. [(unreliable source - do not use) www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21276496.shtml here's a link] Elle Bee

List of Performances
How come the list of Sanjaya's American Idol performances aren't in chart form like the rest of the top 12 contestants'? Everyone has this except LaKisha, Jordin, and Sanjaya. MarkMc1990 02:25, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I just took care of it. -  hmwith  talk   21:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Sanjaya invited to White House dinner
It is important to add to his page that he has been invited to the White House dinner a People's guest. For someone who was just kicked off of American Idol, that is a huge blessing and a great opportunity. His fans who read this webpage would like to know about that.

Reference:

defamer.com/hollywood/sanjaya/sanjaya-already-scores-an-invitation-to-the-white-house-253852.php

Lexapower 10:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It's nothing new. Ace Young was also invited last year, as well as other 6th and 7th place contenders. Although Sanjaya does have a bit more press about it than Ace did. Elle Bee 15:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sanjaya was named VIP of the WHCD by the Washington Post, plus numerous articles stating that Sanjaya was sought after guest at the WHCD. Yearsago 19:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That's good- look out to see if we can get a federal government-issued Public Domain picture out of this. Borisblue 13:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hopefully, we will! This article has been in dire need of a picture, and it's tiring having to undo every picture a newcomer adds (in good faith, of course). -  hmwith  talk   19:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

TIME MAGAZINE
Sanjaya Malakar is nominated for voting in TIME Magazine as one of this year's TIME 100 Most Influential. Voting is underway. Sanjaya is currently 9th. ref: www.time.com 4/27/07 Username 2554 13:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's good. But unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the article. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 14:22, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks like an advert to get Wikipedia editors to vote for him. As if we haven't known about it already. Chantessy 15:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

The article says 'person of the year'. The nomination is for '100 Most Influential' which TIME publishes mid-year and is based on voting, not the end-of-the-year 'person of the year' selected in December by only internal editorial staff of the magazine. The December 2006 Person of the Year was 'YOU'. Remember the cop-out mirror-like cover that reflected the public? Username 2554 15:33, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The link no longer lists the nominees. This article is about Sanjaya Malakar (see title) so it makes sense to link to the page that talks about him, and still has information.

Username 2554 16:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I updated this section to show results, twice. TIME announced a deadline, but seems to still be updating the online 'final' results. (ie was 6th and now third- will check later again.) The magazine will be published on Friday and the online results will hopefully be really final.

Username 2554 16:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Is it my imagination, or was the public diss'd by TIME? Now they're making a distinction between 'your' list and TIME's list. I'm still looking at 'their' list for Rain, who was voted as number one online, and Sanjaya Malakar. Was this just an interactive game to promote magazines sales and web-sites view? Well, near a million votes fell for it!

(Changed wording in article to read 'based on online votes' for now - update on Fri.

Username 2554 16:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Need assistance in wikefying 'time 100'.

Username 2554 15:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What do you mean? What's wrong with it? -  hmwith  talk   18:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The link to TIME magaszine is ok. The phrase TIME 100 is also mentioned, and is a seperate wiki-entry, so can be linked.

Username 2554 14:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The whole thing is confusing. In one of the lists, the so-called "alternate" list, Malakar is #20 closely followed by Simon Cowell and Paula Abdul at 21 and 22 respectively and in the public poll he is #3. I still can't find the original real list of 100 people anywhere on the site just the article of ten people who aren't the top 10 in the public poll. So yes, it does look like the public got owned. Elle Bee 22:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: f you look at the source, he actually TIED for SECOND. The places are just alphabetical, but, if you look at the scores, 7 people actually tied for 2nd place, including Sanjaya. -  hmwith  talk   06:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The whole thing is confusing because TIME is a sucky magazine, but I digress.

First, the entry 'ranked 3rd in TIME 100 poll' WAS correct with the key words being RANKED (not rated), TIME (not others) and poll (public online voting, not the official list by the editors).

Secondly, TIME has generated FOUR lists:

1. The POLL generated by TIME selecting 200 persons and the asking the public online to "VOTE EARLY. VOTE OFTEN". Apparently the comments increased the list to 204, but then TIME dropped one (maybe not enough votes). Rain was first. The rest of the list changed several times after the given deadline, so whatever you saw was dependant on the time of day.

2. TIME asked rappers and comedians to create a list (as amusement?).

3. TIME made its official TIME 100 list, created by its editors, seemingly while in a white ivory tower, which is now online and will be published and final in today's paper edition of the magazine. No Rain. The public is duped.

4. TIME created a 4th addendum-type list of 'Power Givers' listing 'thoughtful activists'.

Lastly, each of the four lists has its own web-page to link to, but not all four lists are relevant to this article. Description of all four can be seen here at the bottom (almost very bottom) of this site (maybe temporarily:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/time100/article/0,28804,1595326_1595332,00.html

The article links WAS correct only if the text is reverted to 'ranked 3rd in TIME 100 poll'. IF you care about another list, then the links and text all need to be fixed back, and the additional information on the additional list added.

Username 2554 14:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No, look at the scores from the poll saying he was third. Several people actually tied for 2nd. Interesting. -  hmwith  talk   15:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... I dont see 'scores'. I see 'RANK' where Sanjaya was third. I see 'RATING' which is the average number entered with each vote as 'percent influence'. I see number of 'VOTES', which is self explanatory.

TIME makes it confusing because rating is only the average of the input votes, and does not address non-votes. In other words, if only 2 persons voted for someone, and each entered 99%, then the average rating is 99%, even if they were the only two of 500,000 votes. The rank would be low, but rating high.

Are we both looking at the same list? TIME 100 poll (#1)?

Username 2554 15:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm looking at the one sourced in Sanjaya's article. The one that has 3rd by his name. -  hmwith  talk   15:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

OK. So, currently Ref 55. das wut im talking about 2.

The rating is only meaningful if it used to compare persons with a similar number of votes, which is not the case for the top three. TIME does not make that clear. The number of votes gap makes the ratings meaningless for the top three. Malakar is not even close to second, and third is not close to Malakar.

Ratings are only really used with the number of votes for a weighted ranking.

Might be noteworthy that Howard Stern came 17th in the same poll.

Username 2554 15:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's all a mess. Come on, Time. -  hmwith  talk   13:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

FANJAYA
Need to add: "A Sanjaya fan is known as a Fanjaya." OR "A Fanjaya denotes a Sanjaya fan."
 * The article isn't locked anymore, add it.

Thanks, but the article appears to still be locked. Would someone plz add it? Makes the article seem incomplete to me.


 * I don't think we should. It's very very fancrufty and message board like. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 14:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, then I'll reword the info into a more 'factual' way:

'The controversy spawned a plethora of editorial colloquialisms, like a Fanjaya to denote a zealous fan.'

Username 2554


 * OK. If it's ok with you, though, I want to remove the bolding. To me, bolding is ok in some cases, but in something like this, it comes off as yelling. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 09:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Needs something though.. maybe italics. Username 2554 13:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Italics isn't appropriate since it's not really a title, which is generally what we use italics for. How about parenthesis? I've seen them used in similar situations before on here where it's a nickname. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 15:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The wiki-nerd in me says techically the right way would be to list the made-up words that were created like Sanja-mania, Sanjaya'd, etc. and 'wiki' them with 'definitions' - but that is over-wiki-ing, don't you agree?

Italics may not be technically right, but look OK to me.

Username 2554 16:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Love the definition deal. Do it. It'd be perfect. -  hmwith  talk   20:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry. But that's very very francrufty and non-encyclopedic. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 22:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Readability of last sentence
I believe the last sentence 'Singing his farewell performance, he substituted "other than hair" in place of "how about love" after the line "let's give them something to talk about."' could be reworded to be more readable. I suggest it be rephrased as: During his fairwell performance, after singing the line "let's give them something to talk about" he substituted the words "how about love" with "other than hair." Asturnut 00:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)Asturnut ✅ Done. Username 2554 23:38, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

People Magazine
Not sure how to attach this reference:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20036901,00.html

Also, heard nomination by People for top 50 beautiful people, but not found actual ref. Pls help add info. ok thx.

Username 2554 18:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't have the mag but I've seen people reporting on idolforums. Apparently he's not in the 50 beautiful people but he has more photos and blurbs than any of them. Elle Bee 19:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:FOOT has alot of info on adding references. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 19:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

DOWNSTAIRS
I had to take out the word 'outsiders' - seems harsh. Anyway, any group formed, by definition, has outsiders and insiders.

Username 2554 16:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

NOTORIETY POV
Just noticed....

Notoriety is a very negative word, ill-famed, as in notorious. Too much POV. Suggest a more neutral 'gained national attention as'.

Username 2554 16:36, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I don't think that notoriety is POV at all. Means. Famous. :) --WoohookittyWoohoo! 06:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

A quick look in any dictionary shows it's connected to 'notorious', not 'noticed', and is not neutral.

Username 2554 12:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. That's where the word comes from. But the use of it is generally not negative. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 12:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Ratings
I didn't say what the ratings drop was due to, the article author did. Shall we say ... "according to ...."?

Username 2554 00:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC) Thanks. Username 2554 15:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Vote for the worst
Why no mention of votefortheworst.com? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jive Dadson (talk • contribs) 06:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

It is mentioned as VFTW in the discussion. Wikis like acronyms.

Username 2554 15:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Simon
Did'nt Simon say that if Sanjaya won, he'd quit?
 * It's in the article. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 23:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Simon Cowell retracted his statement about him leaving the show should Sanjaya win at least twice, I think this should be documented. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.88.64.245 (talk) 01:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

I saw Simon state he's outta there if sj won, more than once in interviews. When pressed with a question about whether he would be breaking his contract, he admitted, yeah, they wouldn't let him go. Not sure who 'they' are - thought he was one of the producers, whatever. Worth mentioning ??? Sourcing ??? Maybe he stated this, even though he knew he wouldn't really want to break a contract. Username 2554 01:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah we'd need a source. The leaving stuff was widely reported. Haven't heard anything about a retraction. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 01:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I did read that in either Star, OK!, or one of those magazines, but I can't remember which, and it's not important anymore, anyways. -  hmwith  talk   13:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

GW BUSH
The article reference did not state that Malakar MET Bush, only that he attended the event where Bush was. There were over 1000 people there and Bush was seated at the dais. No source, not even from Sanjaya, has claimed they met. Need to remove, unless there is a source, or change 'met' to 'saw'. Username 2554 17:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Spears
Re: Spears wanting to record with....

There is no reference here. Even if there were, most reports I've seen state it as a rumor, and therefore still aren't sufficient. Pls remove or reference a direct source. Username 2554 17:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed it. :) Just for future reference, I'd suggest reading the policy on living people. Generally, if it's something unsourced, it can be removed on sight in a lot of circumstances. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 22:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I added it a while back... with a source. But, since the source still claimed that it was a rumor, it was deleted (understandable). Is there a way it could be added claiming that several source claim that it's rumored to be true? -  hmwith  talk   04:38, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's alot of ifs. :-) If you can find a solid source on it, I say include it. Otherwise, it sounds like a message board rumor to me. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 04:52, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There are sources but it's not true. In the Access Hollywood article it said at the bottom that a Spears rep doesn't confirm it and believes that someone close to Sanjaya Malakar leaked it. Elle Bee 15:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't surprise me. One of the side effects of something like this is lots and lots of unsubstantiated rumors. I feel like we're editing the National Inquirer sometimes. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 14:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

VH1 NY
re: Looks like fraud - deleted.

It appears a pre-Idol cell phone video was pirated from youtube and submitted to VH1's 'I Love New York' show without Sanjaya's knowledge or consent. Although cute and harmless - with sour patch kids gone wild, the video expresses no awareness nor interest in the show. Oddly, VH1 has not removed his name from the running, even though he is under-age to appear on this icky show. Username 2554 13:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No need to document removals like this except in edit summaries. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 14:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Woo, but this was not the first time I had to delete this topic, so it's a heads-up for anyone that sees anything else about this.

Username 2554 16:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Okey. :) Woo. I like that. :) --WoohookittyWoohoo! 01:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Mamajaya
It has been suggested that Jillian Recchi Blyth be merged into this article or section. This would not be appropriate since she is not a public figure, therefore any elaboration would be with personal information. Wikipedia is not intended to include everyone in the "Universe of Sanjaya".

Username 2554 14:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That would pretty much define fancruft. So no. Shouldn't be in here. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 14:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Daughter
I was reading imdb.com, and it said Sanjaya has a daughter. Is this true?--MP123 23:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Looks like there are more people with the name Sanjaya. Username 2554 01:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

That has not been proven. IMDB is the only place on the internet that mentions this. It was in his biography on IMDB but has since been deleted. Some people on the message board at imdb.com are making this claim. So far it is insubstantial. Do a Google search on it and see what happens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amy723 (talk • contribs)

AZN TV
Sanjaya didn't win. Best reality star went to the Survivor Cook Islands winner, Yul Kwon. Other nominees were Yau Man Chan, Erwin- Amazing Race, Cloe Dao, and James Sun.

Username 2554 13:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Note on Top 24 Results.
When Sanjaya and Rudy were waiting for the results in the Top 24 round, Ryan said that the contestant that was safe was one of the Top 4 guys. I put that in, and it was deleted. I'll look for the video, but for now, I'm going to leave it as is.

Okay, I have a source:

[]

I'm putting it back in there.

That Sanjaya was mentioned as one of the top 4 guys early in the competition seems trivial, even if as trivia, but whatever...

Username 2554 12:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Single name redirects
Why do misspellings of "Sanjaya" redirect to Sanjaya Malakar? Things like Sanjia, Sanjya, etc. Search results for "Sanjaya" on Google, Yahoo, and all the major search engines are about Malakar for the first 10-20+ pages or so. It's still a common Indian name though just not as common in showbiz. eLLe.Le 15:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Statistically, most could probably assume Malakar is for who the person was searching.  hmwith  talk   15:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Having the edirects going to Sanjaya or Sanjaya (disambiguation) makes more sense. If Sanjaya doesn't redirect here, then the misspelling shouldn't either. hateless 20:53, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Then change them. Doesn't matter to me either way!  hmwith  talk   21:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Q on D-pages
Question on these discussion pages... at what point do we delete stuff? It's getting long, and some of this stuff was long ago resolved.

Username 2554 17:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone read the discussions anymore, cause it's too long and I want to delete a bunch of old stuff...

Username 2554 13:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, if the article is in another language, are they supposed to have the same content for consistency?

Username 2554 13:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Sometimes, an administrator will notice when a discussion page is too long and cluttered and then they will archive it. (You don't have to be an administrator to archive.) However, as of right now Carrie Underwood's talk page hasn't been archived since its creation 2 years ago and all of the comments from when she was a contestant are still intact. It's a mess.. users are top posting to get their queries noticed on there. eLLe.Le  11:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Harry Potter Entry
This appears to be a rumor. Why is it posted without a citation???

Please cite or remove.

I've removed it. -- KFX


 * More like vandalism. eLLe.Le  16:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

For some reason
Someone archived this entire page. I undid that. This page isn't old enough or long enough to archive en masse. If you are going to archive this page, do NOT use the "move this page" option. It moves the history of the page to the archive page, which is against our usual conventions. Makes much more sense to archive piece by piece. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 11:48, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Concert Tour
There is much info out there on concert tour I've refrained from adding so as to not spoil.. they've done 18 of the over 50 stops. Any opinion ??

Username 2554 18:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

commons
The commons has the photo, but didnt know how to make it work. Username 2554 18:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Discography
The discography contains four albums and six EPs. Are they in fact separate releases, or is there one EP with six songs or some other combination? Grimhim 00:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC) It is correct - why didn't you check itunes - separate releases. 71.235.155.194 19:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Please be civil. It's a reasonable question. I have searched on the iTunes store and there are no songs by Sanjaya Malakar there. Perhaps there were and they have since been removed. Amazon.com has no CDs by Sanjaya Malakar and a Google search doesn't reveal any either, which leads me to think that he hasn't actually had any CDs released, apart from his inclusion on the American Idol 7th series album. If that's so, the discography should be reduced to that one American Idol album. A discography lists discs, not songs sung on television. Grimhim 12:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

The song singles and albums were only sold on iTunes, not the other areas you checked and are no longer available - that's why it says 'were' as in past tense. (I'm glad you looked up 'discography' for yourself, but I already know that word. With a name like grimhim it's not surprise you bring out the worst. Grrr.) There is always a problem with referencing websites because they are changed and updated - this is a problem in all the wikipedia.

71.235.155.194 13:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * From what you're saying then, the Discography is not a list of discs. An EP is a disc containing a number of songs. None of these sound like EPs. At the moment it lists four EPs as "albums" and six EPs (including one already listed as an album) as "singles". To further complicate the issue, the Ain't No Mountain High Enough link, listed under both "albums" and "singles", leads only to the Ashford/Simpson song, not an album by Sanjayar.


 * This entire section is more accurately presented as a list of songs by Sanjaya that were made available on iTunes. If iTunes also made available a separate "album" of songs, you might want to either list the tracks or create a separate article for that album, as was done for American Idol: Season 6 - Greatest Hits. Grimhim 21:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

American Heritage listing: discography 1. The study and cataloging of phonograph records. 2. A comprehensive list of the recordings made by a particular performer or of a particular composer's works.

Glasses are no longer made of just glass, and lead pencils do not contain lead.

Since this is intended to be a list of recordings, stating how it was recorded or sold seems trivial (ev-gr). 71.235.155.191 16:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I take your point. Songs released only on iTunes can still be included under Discography. The current box format, however, is wrong and should be changed. Here are the problems. (1) "Ain't No Mountain" is listed in the albums box, but its genre is "pop single", which means it's not an album. (2) The genre column is redundant, because the infobox at the top of the article says Sanjaya is a pop artist. (3) And a column for "type", listing every entry as an "EP", is wrong and redundant, because it looks like each of these songs listed are in fact songs, not EPs.


 * Here's my suggestion for the best way of treating this: Leave the "Discography" section head, followed by "The following songs were released on iTunes", then a list of those songs. Then a subhead saying "Albums", listing the American Idol Season 6 Greatest Hits iTunes album and a reference to the Sanjaya song that was included on that iTunes album. Grimhim 01:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The song 'Ain't... Enough' was listed twice in iTunes - as a single and then again as an album. I don't know if there was a difference in the two released or what the reason was for listing a song as an album, but the referenced was used verbatim. Whatever, the song listed as an album is deleted and title changed to indicate an iTunes release.

20:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Fan site tag
This article contains far too much material for the general reader and is written in a gushing, fawning style. It needs to be severely trimmed. Grimhim 03:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

WOW!"cant sleep clown will eat me" keep the pop culture! what was tht about?

B.S. It looks fine - be more specific or remove tag.

71.235.155.194

I have trimmed the article of its most obvious excesses and therefore deleted the fansite tag. Grimhim 01:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Please do not reinstate the excessive detail and trivia that was removed during a necessary cleanup of this article. My edits were not vandalism. This article concerns an unsuccessful contestant on a TV talent show who has achieved no chart success. He is not Elton John or Paul McCartney. The article was far too long in its original form and needed editing to remove excessive material that was more suited to a fansite. Please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Grimhim 02:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Fansite tag goes back on after persistent reverts by Username 2554 to reinstate deleted trivia. Grimhim 04:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Tag is ok, but there have been many workers on this article. Your edits come off as hacking and therefore vandalism. Your comment above is POV (big-time) and would rather objective editors fix any over-detailing. PS Wikipedia is intended to be BETTER than a stodgy encyclopedia.

71.235.155.194 13:38, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * My comments above are central to the argument. A well-known, big-selling artist warrants a major Wiki article. This artist can so far claim to have lasted several weeks of a television talent contest and had some songs released through iTunes. But even a Michael Jackson wouldn't deserve a Wiki article that trawls through every minor detail of his parents' marital history, including the length of time they were separated before divorce, or his educational qualifications and a list of every high school he attended. Paula Abdul's comments of "I get it. I get why people love you. You are charming" are simply not worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia entry on an artist. This is why I took such trivia out.


 * My edits were far from hacking or vandalism. Claiming this suggests malicious or mischievous intent on my part. I have none. Look again at what I deleted and tell me how the inclusion of any of this could be justified on anything other than a fansite. I explained on the talk page and edit summaries what I was doing, only to have all this work reverted with the lame summary "rv vandalism", when it was clearly anything but. No more discussion, no attempt to self-edit.


 * The point of the fansite tag, which this article deserves in its present form, is designed to spur editors to improve it. Your comment "tag is OK" suggests you're happy for it to remain. If so, then you don't appreciate how inappropriate fancruft is on a Wiki entry.


 * Engaging in revert wars, which Username 2554 has so far sparked with his/her unexplained reverts, is pointless and unproductive. If you don't like my specific edits, then make some of your own to trim the obvious excesses, rather than obstinately reverting and implying Ownership of articles. Help to improve the article, that's all I ask. Grimhim 14:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Too many details being removed are important. The level of interest in some of these 'details' is indicated by the amount of discussion generated, some of which has been previously archived. One person's trivia is an item of importance to another. I personally agree there is extra detail, but have left it in out of respect for the contributors. Trimming would be better left to a responsive, sensitive and objective editor. Your comments above seem hostile and very POV biased. Repeating the same cuts still seems like hacking.

71.235.155.194 02:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is a community of editors, who strive to improve articles. Those who write or contribute to articles don't own them. Wiki's rule is: if you don't want your articles edited, don't write them. If there's extraneous information, which this article was burdened with (and I provided examples of this above) then we take it out; we don't leave it in out of respect for those who typed it in. We should be treating other editors with respect and an assumption of good faith. I am not hostile towards the subject of this article. I think it should be treated the same as any other article. Grimhim 02:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Your logic of length of article vs. your perception of the person's importance is flawed - and if that's your view then trim Sponge Bob's page. I never said I owned the article and ditto the rest.

Username 2554 02:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, the Spongebob article looks great. Comprehensive, but packed with meaningful information that adds to a general understanding of the character and his background. My problem with the Sanjaya article is not the length per se; it is the amount of excessive trivia and unencyclopedic content: eg "He was shown tearfully embracing his sister when she was cut" and "During rehearsals Jennifer Lopez remarked, "I like this kid. I love Sanjaya!" after hearing him sing in Spanish, the only one of the remaining eight contestants to do so on the Latin-theme night." And "Randy Jackson went as far to remark that "I cannot even say anything on the vocals anymore", in his critique of Malakar after his performance during the top nine". And on it goes.


 * No, you never said you owned the article. But a blanket revert of all subsequent edits, including mine, with the summary "2nd warning!" without any attempt to discuss my edits, suggests you think this. As a Wiki editor, I have the right to edit and improve this article, which is what I will continue doing. Grimhim 03:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The edits would be less destructive if you read the history and discussions, including the archived sections, to better understand what is trivia vs. of importance to the contributors. You might also make smaller edits instead of blanket repetition of your hacking, which is more time consuming but would make for more meaningful edits. BTW, it you, Grimhim, that insists on making the same major edits without seeking consensus and thereby acting like you own the article.

Username 2554 19:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Grimhim, you should read Dispute resolution (actually, you both should). Username 2554, you should read WP:CIVIL and WP:VANDAL. Let me quote from the latter: While having large chunks of text you've written removed or substantially rewritten can be frustrating, simply making edits that noticeably alter the text or content of a pages should not be immediately labeled vandalism. Grimhim is being WP:BOLD and making good faith edits. Referring to his actions as vandalism is highly incivil, and can result in being blocked.

I just restored Grimhim's last revision, not because I want to take his side, but because the justification for reverting was clearly incorrect and offensive. My reversion in this case should not be considered an endorsement of either side's position. Username, you do not speak for all previous editors, and anyway, policy and guidelines trump the opinions of the handful of editors who have worked on this article. Deleting information, especially unsourced information is highly encouraged by numerous Wikipolicies, especially WP:BLP. On the other hand, Grimhim, you are not the sole arbiter of what constitutes trivia. Username is not completely out of line here. Making such bold edits to an article without getting buy-in from other active editors on the article is, if persistently repeated, borderline incivil too. I'm feeling a little sympathetic towards both of you, but not really sympathetic towards either one.

Grimhim, try making smaller changes. Don't just remove entire sections because you think they're trivia. Try making the sections that discuss matters you consider trivia shorter, rather than removing them entirely. In many cases, trivia can be worth a brief mention, but too much time spent on it gives it undue weight. Also, smaller changes are easier to discuss. Be particularly careful when removing cited information, as that is the least justifiable form of pruning. And Username, tone down the hostility! Don't be a WP:DICK. We get that you're trying to preserve the work of other editors, and that's admirable, but your approach and your manner are not. Also, try adding back selected bits of information that you feel still deserve to be included, rather than simply reverting all of Grimhim's changes. See if you can find less verbose ways of expressing some of this information if you feel it still needs to be included. Grimhim shows some signs of wanting to find a compromise here; let's see if you can do the same. Xtifr tälk 21:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

This article has since its inception been heavily disputed and editted back and forth by many - in the wiki-way. Adding another tag will likely cause more problems, but whatever. Might be correct to add. The history is that this article swings from a HATE page to a FAN page and keeping both neg and pos adds stabilized the disputes. Deleting will likely start the whole cycle over again. It's not a fan-like page now really, but neutral with both sides added. Also, personal background seems quite customary and very relevant. The large cuts are just too unacceptable. Doing it repeatedly is, ok, I won't say again, but starts with 'V'. I understand not trying to pick sides. I'm on the side of a complete article with thoughtful trimming.

Username 2554 22:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, the history of the article shows that I made a succession of small changes, starting August 10. I doubt any of these altered whatever perceived love/hate relationship might have previously existed. These changes were subsequently reverted wholesale, without an attempt at discussion, compromise or concession. Edits such as the correction of the discography (Sanjaya, as far as I can determine, hasn't had any discs released under his own name, and his songs don't appear to be available on iTunes any more) were also reverted without any comment other than the accusation of vandalism. Which makes Username 2554's accusation that I made changes "without seeking consensus" a bit rich. I initiated a discussion; no one responded, so I began editing, section by section. Grimhim 23:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks to both of you for more calm, reasoned responses.


 * Username 2554: if this page has been swinging back and forth between fansite and attack page, then it absolutely needs to be monitored, and I applaud you for taking on the task. It's an often thankless job, and I don't blame you for developing a hair trigger.  But Grimhim is clearly acting in good faith, with the best intentions of the Encyclopedia in mind, and has made at least some attempts to seek consensus here.  Referring to such actions as "vandalism" (or even "starts with 'V'") is never, ever, ever acceptable, no matter how much you disagree with his changes, and no matter how persistent and stubborn he may be.  Note that he was the one who went seeking outside guidance and a third opinion, so I think he realizes that his stubbornness was becoming counterproductive—and I really don't think he realized how many toes he might be stepping on.  I hope you can recognize that he is trying, and he does have some valid points to make.


 * Grimhim: Username is quite correct when he says that making such broad changes to an article that has been hammered out at great length as a compromise between numerous editors with wildly differing points of view can be very disruptive. Far more disruptive than I think you realize.  Old edit wars can easily re-erupt when old compromises disappear.  Sanjaya was a very controversial figure for a while there, so I'm not at all surprised to hear that this article has been the target of heavy edit wars and vandalism.  A one-sided edit war with you probably looked like a much better option to Username than a multi-sided editor war with dozens of returning POV-pushers.  Yes, he could have been more communicative when you first showed up, and yes, some of his comments about you have been way over the line, but to me he mostly sounds tired, frustrated and cranky—probably with good reason.  I hope that you can find it within you to forgive his rudeness, and to recognize that he, like you, has the best interests of Wikipedia at heart, and has some valid points to make.


 * A couple of final things: Username, your desire to preserve the existing balance of the article is understandable, but it will need to be improved and edited if you ever want to get it out of B class.  With the Idol season over, and Sanjaya no longer on the air every day, it's a lot more likely that you can make bigger changes to this article without triggering the kind of disruption you may have seen in the past.  I suspect this page is already getting a lot less traffic than it used to.  And Grimhim, please remember, there is no deadline.  The article needs to be improved, but that doesn't have to happen right away.  And while having this look like a fan page is undesirable, it is far better than having it look like an attack page, which could put the Foundation at legal risk.  Care and caution when editing the biography of a living person (especially a controversial person) is never a bad thing, even if it does slow our rush to perfection.  Cheers, y'all.  Xtifr tälk 03:52, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

One important correction to Xtifr's comments, or maybe a question first... is there a way to post a traffic meter on an article? I'm wondering about your suspicion that this page is already getting a lot less traffic than it used to. There seems to still be heavily active internet discussion and many hate and fan sites. There is also a volume of reviews accumulating for the 60+ tour stops which I'm holding off on until the tour is over so we find one with an overview of the overall tour (and was cautious on spoilers). Also, it seems as if post-AI appearances will continue.

71.235.155.194 14:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * (Please don't edit someone else's words on a talk page.) I'm sure this page still gets a lot of traffic, but I'm equally sure that it is getting a lot less than it used to.  The fact that Sanjaya is no longer appearing on national television every day has to make a huge difference.  Especially the fact that he's no longer a regular feature of shows like The Soup or The Daily Show means that a lot of people whose interest was only minimal will have moved on to other, newer fads-of-the-day.  I'd almost forgotten him myself.  A strong core may be keeping dedicated sites active, but the mainstream news sites and blogs rarely mention his name any more.  The tour isn't going to generate anywhere near as much buzz as the TV shows did.  I'm not saying there's little traffic to this page; I'm only saying I sure there's less than there was.   No, I can't prove it; this is merely common sense.  I'm not asking for the semi-protection to be removed and I'm still advising caution in editing.  I'm just saying that I don't think it needs as much caution as it did at the peak of the furor.  The article as it stands is a solid B, but to be promoted to Good Article status, it's going to need more work, IMO, especially with regard to the undue weight given to trivia, which is an NPOV issue.  Cheers,  Xtifr tälk 23:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

If it is NPOV issue, then both tags can be replaced with one if there is a tag for extra information (not calling it trivia so as not to 'trivialize ' contributions - my PC). BTW I only edit my own discussion to fix minor stuff.

71.235.155.191 15:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The article as written contains NPOV and a balance of negative and positive facts. I propose we remove both tags and call it a day. Will remove if no objection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Username 2554 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Early Years
This entire line should be deleted, or reworded:

Malakar's father is a classical Indian musician.[12][13] Other singers in his family include his older sister Shyamali,[14] and his cousin Camila Recchi.[3]

Sanjaya's cousin is irrelevant. Mention Shyamali only in reference to her appearance in American Idol (example: Sanjaya auditioned for American Idol together with his sister -- this is a known fact and was part of the storyline in the show) and not "another singer in his family". This article is about Sanjaya not his sister.

If I don't get any feedback, I will change it myself. Thanks.

--Kidflashx 11:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Family connections are important within the culture of some of the editing contributors. Preferable to stay in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Username 2554 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Meet the Spartans
Shouldn't it be mentioned somewhere that Sanjaya is portrayed in the upcoming film Meet the Spartans? --SpongeSebastian (talk) 18:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

yes i agree, he does get knocked into the pit of death —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.89.62 (talk) 06:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

incorrect songs in one part it says he sang some kind of wonderful and then "aint no mountain high enough." this isn't true. the first song he sang on the actual live show was "Knocks me off my feet" followed by "steppin out with my baby" then "waiting for the world to change" and THEN "aint no mountain high enough". three songs were skipped!! ox amers

Cleanup
The citations need to be properly formatted, with author, date, publication, and access date in addition to just the title. Also, please don't use "others"; mention exactly who this "other" is that thinks that Sanjay is adding publicity and promotion of the show. hbdragon88 (talk) 21:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

^ first of all u spelt sanjaya wrong. 2nd of all in pop culture references it says in Meet the Spartans Leonidus DOES like his singing. It should say Lenidus Doesnt like his singing! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.185.242 (talk) 14:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

god
sanjaya was great a good singer and if he winns simon gets out of amercan idol so........... what's the trouble? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.166.95.254 (talk) 21:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Sanjaya Homosexual?
There have been some rumours concering Sanjaya's sexuality prehaps they should be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.181.210 (talk) 22:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Rumors have no place in an encyclopedia. Rather, relevant facts need to be documented with reliable published sources. More importantly such information needs to follow the Wikipedia policies regarding biographies of living persons. In that regard, outing someone's sexual orientation would be prohibited and even if the person publicly acknowledged a particular orientation, in order to include it in the article, that fact should be relevant to the person's notable activities or public life, according to reliable published sources. --EPadmirateur (talk) 01:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree rumors aren't necessarily apt for encylopedic entry; but, as with the alleged sexuality of Clay Aiken, rumors of a queer orientation can be a notable part of a person's public life. It's of course beyond the purpose of an encylopedia to define or even mediate the disputed orientations of public figures, but it's quite relevant to objectively discuss public speculation on the subject. Regardless of whether such libel has any bearing on truth, (see Tom Cruise), an encyclopedia should not deny the existence of these public discussions. The fact that everyone gossips about these people can't simply be erased from history because it's low-brow. If we decide to ignore such controversies, I think the most apt expression would be elephant in the room. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.211.168.17 (talk) 20:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, rumors of a particular sexual orientation have no place in an encyclopedia. Please review the policy about biographies of living persons. In particular, look through the presumption in favor of privacy, where it states:
 * "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid, and as such it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. BLPs must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy."
 * An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is "do no harm". In order to meet the test for inclusion in a BLP, the information needs to meet 3 criteria:
 * 1. it must be widely known, published in numerous mainstream reliable sources over an extended period of time, and
 * 2. it must be definitive and factual, not speculation, and
 * 3. it must be given due weight in relation to the subject's notability
 * Publishing speculation such as you propose fails on all three counts, in particular #2. Even this section on the talk page violates this policy. --EPadmirateur (talk) 04:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Howard Stern
How come there is no mention of Howard Stern and his influence on the voting? He had a massive influence on the voting through his radio show. Here's some sources to add some info:Trevor GH5 (talk) 23:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Over at the You Really Got Me wing...
You_Really_Got_Me I believe that for a single sentence, this comes on way too strong about how bad a singer Sanjaya is. Others disagree. Thoughts? (p.s. I've never seen even a second of American Idol) - Richfife (talk) 21:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I made it much more NPOV. Let me know what you think. I feel as if it sounds more encyclopedic now, as well, and less of a celebrity blog.  нмŵוτн τ  22:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Malakar is a Bengali surname.
I am living in Malaysia. My ancestors come from Bengal, East India. Bengal that is in East India is West Bengal and East Bengal is Bangladesh today. Malakar is definitely a Bengali surname. I am proud to know that Sanjaya and others are interested to know about Malakar and so am I. I am proud to be Malakar and a Bengali at that.

Wish you all the best Sanjaya Malakar.

This is from a pishi (aunt- father's sister)as I am Bengali too though we are not related. Bless you. Bye My full name is Roma Rani Malakar.

Bye. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.188.76.121 (talk) 08:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Finale solo
The article states that Sanjaya is "the only contestant below 3rd place to be featured in a solo on an American Idol finale." After the Season 7 finale, this should probably be changed since Jason Castro, Brooke White, Carly Smithson and Michael Johns were all featured during their respective finale even though they were not part of the Top 3. 67.190.64.183 (talk) 22:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Age
Someone needs to make an adjustment on the Infobox as it now displays Malakar's age as "19.0000000000000000" years. B.Wind (talk) 05:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Middle Name Mistake
"Shekar" was never Mr. Malakar's middle name. I have eddited the article to reflect this fact. Please cite a reliable source that supports the claim that his middle name was "Shekar" until age three and was changed to "Joseph" before reverting the article to it's previous state. Sanjaya pointed this out to me during a discussion that we were having at a party the other week. The discussion itself pertained to the usefulness of Wikipedia as a research tool and the veracity of the information therein.

24.47.154.230 (talk) 01:50, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Why is his name wirtten in Hindi?
He definitely can't speak/read Hindi and his dad probably can't either. He's from West Bengal, not a Hindi-speaking state. AyanP (talk) 02:36, 5 April 2011 (UTC)Ayan

Notability
This article should be considered for deletion based on lack of notability. =//= Johnny Squeaky 07:05, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

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