Talk:Santa Claus's reindeer/Archive 1

Untitled
So far, only Prancer has received his own widely theatrically released movie.

01:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)~Enda80

194.125.181.44 20:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The movie Prancer has a sequel to it too called Prancer's Return. Where are the articles for those movies? Just about all the other movies ever made have their own Wikipedia article. Why don't those two have one?
 * --200.44.7.69 19:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Donder Note
Many people read Donder's name wrong. It is widely thought that his name is Donner. Though upon reading the poem in most books it appears as Donner instead of Donder. I accidentally fixed the common mistake when I wasn't logged in so If anyone from Wikkipedia needs to get in touch with me I edited it.

10:05 PM 29 November 2008 (Eastern Standard Time) ~OhNo789

This is true, and makes sense due to the fact that Donder makes sense to be with Blitzen as blitzen is German for lightning and donder is German for thunder. Beside of the info already given, next to the reindeer's info, I added this info.

Sabishii_Kage 00:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * not entirely true. Donder is Dutch for Thunder, Donner is German for thunder. Santa Claus is based on the Dutch Sint Nicolaas and the saying: "donder en bliksem" in Dutch. Donner und blitzen is not so common in German. The original names of the reindeer were donder and bliksem which over time became donner and blitzen —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.185.206.114 (talk) 17:03, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, I almost always hear Donder, not Donner. I was even always brought up calling him Donder as well.  I rarely hear "Donner." I believe the article should state Donder at the bottom of the article, not Donner as the common name. He is only mistakenly called Donner on occasion. - RaptorWiki (talk) 22:24, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Reindeer pics?
why isn,t there any pics, at all??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.125.181.44 (talk) 20:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

Descriptions
Where do the descriptions of the eight original reindeer come from? The original poem only mentions their name, not their gender or qualities?
 * Good question. Over Christmas break I'll try to source the unsourced material and remove anything with no good background. --Merond e 10:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup Removed
Cleanup notice removed as article seemed fine to me - and no one stated what needed changing. Davymast 20:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Robert Hannah the red-nosed reindeer
Does anyone have information about this ?

I don't see this confirmed anywhere else. I do see other names that were considered before Rudolph but no Robert.

Could this be a hoax ?

85.168.249.43 01:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Sources and balance needed
I've removed the following for now, as uncited and probably unbalanced:
 * "In old European lore, St. Nicholas traveled with a horned creature that would not only bear the load for its master, but also punish naughty children. In many depictions this creature resembled a goat  (which varied in form, sometimes being a very demonic looking goat, at other times the Devil, complete with pitchfork and tail).  In Austria, this goat/demon creature is still known as Krampus.  The transformation of Christmas to the New World (specifically the United States) was one  in which  numerous customs related to Christmas which had obvious pagan roots and/or involved various forms of debauchery were abandoned (and in some cases made illegal).  Other customs were merely changed to something more acceptable to the puritan population.  It is believed that the Reindeer as they appeared in the poem A Visit From St. Nicholas were a safer and more benign version of Krampus, the  demonic goat which accompanied St. Nick in earlier traditions."

FT2 (Talk 13:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Apostrophe
Can someone change the redirections for this page? The possessive of Claus is Claus's, not Claus', so the main article should be Santa Claus's reindeer with the error entry leading to the correct entry, not vice versa as it is now. Alpheus 20:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Before I attempt to correct the alleged error, can you cite a source (on or off Wikipedia) that addresses this grammar issue? -- M e  r ond e 08:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Here, this site from Carnegie Mellon University shows how to form possessives. It should be Claus's. Being an English teacher, I was appalled at this as well. -- Cyrus      Andiron   17:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I second this. &mdash;simpatico talk 07:48, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree as well. And Wikipedia discusses the issue here. 91.107.161.216 (talk) 02:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. As I learned it, "s'" is to be used for possessives of plurals, and possessives of singulars that end in s should use "s's" instead. - JMyrleFuller (talk) 14:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

✅ - Santa Claus' reindeer now redirects to Santa Claus's reindeer. — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 04:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Kevin? (and other reindeer that don't exist)
"Kevin, the reindeer they don't like to talk about"? Where exactly does this come from? I Just Kissed Al Pacino December 14 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.213.77 (talk) 02:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably just vandalism. Unless it has a legitimate source, it's probably fake. - JMyrleFuller (talk) 14:57, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Article largely restructured, and some suggestions
Hello. I've done some extensive restructuring of this article per the tag at the top. This is just a starting point, but hopefully it reads better now. I also removed some tidbits that didn't seem to have a place.

I also have some suggestions:
 * The descriptions of the reindeer need some sources. Where does that information come from, since it wasn't in the original poem? I, for one, have never heard of the reindeer having personalities/powers, though I find that interesting.
 * The additional reindeer section should most likely only include the most notable/enduring new reindeer (if there are any besides Rudolph). Otherwise, I might change that section to reindeer in pop culture, or something similar.
 * There was one part I removed ("In some countries, such as Norway, Sweden and Finland, Santa's reindeer traditionally do not fly (but they are sometimes depicted flying).") that I was going to put in the Trivia section, but that felt like, well, trivializing other cultures. I think there needs to be a section on non-American reindeer lore that maybe details different countries' versions of Santa's transportation/animal companions.

I've also heard that much Christmas lore is based on pagan traditions. If anyone wants to do the research on whether Moore (or whoever authored the poem) drew from that and/or Christian tradition, I'd really like to read it, if there's any out there. :) I believe that would fill the article out quite a bit. &mdash;simpatico talk 07:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection
This article has been semi-protected for a week due to changes (some in good faith) by IP Addresses to the names of the reindeer. Happy Holidays! — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 03:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The page is likely to be frequently consulted for just this information over the next few days and it is reasonable for us to maintain stability and accuracy. TerriersFan (talk) 03:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You are correct, of course. I was just trying to explain.  Anyone who feels compelled to change the names of the reindeer should really read the whole article first.  Season's Greetings!    — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 03:53, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem, so was I. Merry Christmas! TerriersFan (talk) 04:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

L. Frank Baum
Should this article make mention of Baum's explination for reindeer in The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus? In Baum's story, reindeer are set apart from regular deer as they are the only ones the Knooks will allow to be used as any kind of pack animal. And then only Claus is allowed to use reindeer.

Also, it should be noted that before the creation of Rudolph as the ninth reindeer Baum had already written of more than eight reindeer pulling the sleigh. In fact while Baum had Claus starting with just a pair of deer named Glossie and Flossie, he raised the number to ten. In addition to Glossie and Flossie, they were Racer, Pacer, Fearless, Peerless, Reckless, Speckles, Ready, and Steady. It should be noted both by the rhyming of the names and by the fact that Baum's book was published in 1902 that it seems he clearly may not have felt he had to use any of the names Moore used in his poem. -- annonymous Dec. 25, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.64.4.114 (talk) 08:10, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that info. If you had enough additional info to fill out cite book, including page numbers, that would be great!    — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 18:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, just came on to check and see if anyone had seen this yet and found your response, Jeff. I did provide most of the important info in the wee morning hours (it was after 3 AM EST when I posted the info) and I will try to give you a little more indepth as to what happened.

The book, as I already explained, is The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus, which was orignally published in 1902. My copy is a Signet Classics publication, published 2005, so the page numbers I will be giving will be to that publication and I can't promise they will be the same over various publications. The book is divided into three parts, Childhood, Manhood, and old age, each part starts with a chapter 1.

The eighth chapter of the Manhood part, which is the fifteenth chapter of the book, is entitled The First Journey with the Reindeer, which begins on page 88, and introduces Glossie and Flossie. Their introduction is on pages 90 and 91 when Claus sees them walking on top of the snow and asks how they are able to do so for a few days before he'd sunk up to his armpits in it. Flossie's is the first name given, appearing as the third word in the second paragraph on page 91. Glossie's name is given in the fourth paragraph as the ninth word. In the third and fouth paragraphs the two deer explain that the snow is frozen and that is why they can walk on top of the snow. Claus and the deer discuss the fact that he must make a trip to deliver toys to the children, at this point his plan is to walk across the frozen snow which would still take him a number of days as he had a very long trip to make. The deer said he needed to wait until the spring as the snow would melt before he could get home, leaving him trapped. Claus laments that he's not as fast as they are and asks about riding on their backs. Flossie says that's not a good idea but maybe if he had a sledge they might be able to pull him and the toys. Claus sets out to build the sledge and a harness as the two deer go to ask the Knooks for permission. On page 92 the deer return sayin Will Knook has given them permission as long as they are in the forest by daybreak. The rest of the chapter is about that first trip with Glossie and Flossie, ending on page 98.

We don't hear much of Glossie and Flossie save a passing mention of deer until the tenth chapter (seventeenth overall), entitled Christmas Eve, which begins on page 102. Here we first learn it was a minute after daybreak that the deer managed to return to the forest and that Will Knook was going to punish them for their disobedience. On page 103 Claus went to see Ak, the Master Woodsman of the World, to interceed on the pair's behalf. On the same page, 103, Ak calls for a meeting with the Prince of the Knooks, the Prince of the Ryls, the Queen of the Faries, and the Queen of the Nymphs, whom we don't learn is present until page 104, to discuss the situation with the deer and Claus in general. On page 104 Ak tells the Prince of the Knooks that the deer could be of help to Claus. The Prince then has extra pressure placed on him by the other three, each of whom pledges something special for the deer if Claus is allowed to use them. The Queen of the Faries promises her people will protect the deer with Claus when they are out of the forest; the Prince of the Ryls pledges the deer that draw Claus's sledge can eat the casa plant for strength, the grawle plant for fleetness of foot, and the marbon plant for long life; the Queen of the Nymphs pledges to let the deer bathe in the Forest pool of Nares "which will give them sleek coats and wonderful beauty." The page ends with the Prince of the Knooks summoning Will Knook to testify on his reasons for the deer not to be used like pack animals.

Page 105 sees Will Knook explain that unlike horses, deer are supposed to be free animals who owe no services to mankind. Ak summoned Glossie and Flossie to testify as to how they felt about the trip. Their testimony, along with the pressure put on him by the other immortals present, appears to be what decided things for the Prince of the Knooks. On page 106 the Prince declares that Claus can use the deer to pull his sledge, but only on Christmas Eve. He also says on page 106 that Claus may select any number of deer, no more than ten, to pull the toy laden sledge. Because these deer are being used by Claus for the purpose of delivering toys, they are to then be known as reindeer to distinguish them from other deer. Page 108 to the end of the chapter on page 110 shows Claus's first Christmas Eve ride and the second trip with Glossie and Flossie as Claus has not yet choosen more deer.

Chapter 11, the eighteenth overall chapter, is entitled How the First Stockings Were Hung by the Chimney and begins page 111. One page 112 Claus realizes he's going to need a bigger sledge, making plans to get build one. This new sledge is too large for Glossie and Flossie to pull by themselves in one night according to what Glossie tells Claus on page 113. Claus wants to get a second pair but Flossie reminds Claus he can have up to ten deer. Flossie also claims that with ten deer they would be lightning fast and get to the highest roofs without any trouble. Claus likes this idea and at the bottom of page 113 sends Glossie and Flossie to select eight more deer to become reindeer for him.

Page 115 gives the names of the rest of Claus's reindeer. In the last paragraph on page 115 the other eight are introduced as Reckless, Speckless, Ready, Steady, Racer, Pacer, Fearless, and Peerless. In this paragraph Baum also says two things about the deer that are of great intrest. The first is an allusion of their age. After naming the deer on the team, Baum says "made up the ten who have traversed the world these hundreds of years with their generous master." Now actual age given, but we are told that as of the inital printing (and thus all subsequent printings) that the ten reindeer are hundreds of years old. The next thing Baum says about the deer is to describe them as being slender of limb, beautiful, nicely spread antlers, dark velvety eyes, and smooth fawn colored coats with with spots.

Page 116, in the second paragraph, reveals that Claus choose Glossie and Flossie as the lead deer of the team.

Now the rhyming of the names and Baum not using the number of deer and names Moore used is a little more conjuntion on my part. The rhyming is a little more obvious from looking at the names. Glossie and Flossie. Racer and Pacer. Baum clearly picked names that were largely spelled the same save for a letter or two, thus each of the names ryhmed with one other name. The conjuntion that Baum choose not to use the number and names of the raindeer Moore established comes more from the fact that Moore's poem had been around longer than Baum had been alive and the number and names Baum selected. The introduction on page XX reveals that the second printing used illustrations by W. W. Denslow, whom Baum had collaboratored with before (the first printing was illustrated by Mary Cowles Clark). Denslow did illustrations for Moore's poem the same year he illustrated the second printing of The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus. I assume Baum already knew of A Visit from Saint Nicholas when he wrote his book and choose not to use Moore's description on the size of the reindeer team and their names. - annonymous Dec. 25, 2007 (5:27 PM EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.64.4.114 (talk) 22:24, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Buddy the Bluenose Reindeer
Buddy the Bluenose Reindeer is the creation of author Bruce Nunn, who is also known as "Mr. Nova Scotia Know-It-All". Buddy appears in two books published by Nimbus Publishing of Halifax, Nova Scotia. The first book, titled Buddy the Bluenose Reindeer, was published in 2005. Buddy the Bluenose Reindeer and the Boston Christmas Tree Adventure, the second book, was published in 2007. It builds on the true story of Nova Scotia sending Boston a beautiful, large Christmas tree each year as an ongoing "thank you" for Boston's overwhelming and gracious, quick response in providing help immediately following the Halifax explosion on December 6, 1917, when the city was leveled by the explosion of munitions ship in its harbour. The books can be found at www.nimbus.ns.ca. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grinch13can (talk • contribs) 18:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Olops, the Other Reindeer
Olops is a song in the album Jingle Balls Silent Night Holy Cow ,the third studio album released by Filipino band Parokya ni Edgar in 1998 which is also their first Christmas album. The song is about Rudolph's younger cousin named Olops, hence the song's name. In the song, Olops was the one calling names to Rudolph and not letting him join in any reindeer games, contrary to the song, Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer, where it is 'all of the other reindeer' (maybe Olops is a corruption of the words all of). As a result, Santa came, bonked on Olop's head and pulled on his neck, thus killing him. It was then rumored that his head is now hanging on a wall in Santa's den. The moral is: Always be a friend; You would not want to end up like Olops in the end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.105.190.86 (talk) 11:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced addition
I have moved a large new addition here. The content may or may not be correct but the page is in a big enough mess that we should avoid adding more unsourced content. This can go back if properly cited.

The original eight reindeer are arranged as follows on Santa's sleigh, assuming that the reindeer are named in the poem from front to back, with the reindeer on the left being male, and the reindeer on the right being female. Oder: Dasher,Dancer,Prancer,Vixen,Comet,Cupid,Donner and Blitzen

(In the film Santa Claus: The Movie, the arrangement is reversed, with Donner and Blixem/Blitzen (Claus' two reindeer from his mortal life) in the lead.)

â€ The last two reindeer names were 'Donner' and Blixem when the poem was first published anonymously in the Troy, New York Sentinel on 1823-12-23.[2] When Moore later published the work as his own (Poems, 1844), the names were spelled Donder and Blitzen.[3] In a number of later reprintings, name is further simplified to Donner.[4]

In An American Anthology, 1787–1900, Edmund Clarence Stedman reprints the 1844 Moore version of the poem, including the German spelling of "Donner and Blitzen", rather than the earlier Dutch version from 1823, "Dunder and Blixem". Both phrases translate as "Thunder and Lightning" in English, though German for thunder is now spelled Donner, and the Dutch words would nowadays be spelled Donder and Bliksem.

According to the Donner Home Page,[5] Robert May used Donner and Blitzen in his 1939 story "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer." The sheet music for Johnny Marks' 1949 song "Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer" also uses Donner and Blitzen.

Descriptions

Dasher - The first reindeer and the right-hand leader of the sleigh before Rudolph was included. He is the speediest reindeer.

Dancer - The second reindeer and the left leader before Rudolph was included. She is the graceful reindeer.

Prancer - The third reindeer and on the right in the second row. He is the most powerful reindeer.

Vixen - The fourth reindeer and on the left-hand side in the second row. She is beautiful, and also powerful like her companion Prancer.

Comet - The fifth reindeer and on the right-hand side in the third row. He brings wonder and happiness to children when Santa flies over everyone's houses.

Cupid - The sixth reindeer and on the left-hand side in the third row. She brings love and joy to children when Santa flies over everyone's houses.

Donner - The seventh reindeer and on the right-hand side in the fourth row. His original name is Donder, meaning "thunder" in German. He is also Rudolph's father.

Blitzen - The eighth reindeer and on the left-hand side in the fourth row. Though female, she is frequently portrayed as a male in American pop culture. Her original name is Blixem. She is known as the lightning reindeer because the word 'Blitz' is German for lightning. TerriersFan (talk) 17:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I think you just removed the names of all the reindeer from the page. Might want to add at least that much back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.72.216 (talk) 04:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

random song quotes
shouldnt these like be explained:? as in... what song each of the lyrics is from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.211.222.104 (talk) 04:55, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

something important we need in this article
VERY often, the reindeer are depicted looking more like whitetail deer or other non-rein deer... with slender short-furred bodies, small hooves, and, most importantly, little black puppy noses instead of cow/moose noses. This is the only explanation for the very CONCEPT of a red-nosed reindeer, as only that sort of deer even HAS a 'nose' separate from the rest of its face.. reindeer just have a muzzle with nostrils, so.. yeah. You see what I mean? This is a cultural.. thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 05:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason they're called reindeer is because they are deer that pull the reins. 173.84.211.91 (talk) 12:08, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Blitzen
I seem to vaguely recall some sort of childrens special where a personified Blitzen is tired of being last in the roll call and vows to change that only to (it being a children's show and all) end up happy with it in the end. Anyone else remember this? And if so should it be added? I would but I can't remember exactly what it was or much about it other than what I've said. 173.73.116.115 (talk) 07:53, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

The section on whether the reindeer in "A Visit from St. Nicholas" actually fly...
I'm inclined to remove it or greatly reduce it, since it takes up a lot of space to make a rather fine distinction. It's also un-referenced and is therefore potentially original research. Too, it's inappropriate to refer to the "myth" that Santa's reindeer fly, since the whole thing is mythical, and is, for that reason, whatever people think it is. I'll wait a few days to see if anyone objects or would take a different approach. Leoniceno (talk) 03:02, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I just read the section, and I found the whole thing rather ridiculous. It sounds like the work of some Scrooge who read the poem and thought "It doesn't explicitly say they're flying!" and decided to tell the world that they all got it wrong. In the end, "they run up the wall really fast" doesn't make nearly as much sense as flying from a mythological standpoint. Tymime (talk) 21:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the two editors above.  The entry is unsourced speculation and doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.   I see that Leoniceno hasn't returned to remove the section.  So I will. --MLKLewis (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Origin Sleipnir
Well. When speaking of origin

"In the poem, Santa's transport is a "miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer" and the reindeer are "more rapid than eagles." The poem does not describe them, nor their positions in the sleigh-team. From a misreading of this poem came the myth that the reindeer fly."

The specific myth of the reindeers might be from misreading the poem, but still I think it should also be noted that "Santa" has been theorized to have origins in pagan festivities celebrating Odin, Woden. Pagan traditions and names are still relevant, In Norway for example Christmas is called JUL.

Anyways my point here is that the old possible germanic origins of many christmas related traditions should be taken into account, in this matter aswell. Even in the source cited for the quotation above it speaks early on in the article of "Woden, or Odin, scattered gifts down on the children of the frozen north while they slept."

The eight reindeers may have their origins in Sleipnir, Odin's EIGHT legged horse, and this horse was FLYING.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#Influence_of_Germanic_paganism_and_folklore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimi3s (talk • contribs) 07:30, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

AfD discussions for each reindeer
Eight separate stubs have been created for each of the reindeer. (Rudolph already had his own full article.) They have been nominated for deletion and input is needed to decide their fate:


 * Articles for deletion/Prancer (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Dancer (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Vixen (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Comet (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Cupid (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Donner (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Blitzen (Santa Claus's reindeer)
 * Articles for deletion/Dasher (Santa Claus's reindeer)

Brangifer (talk) 15:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 December 2011
Some of the text is italicized when it should not be, and vice-versa.

Carefully examine the online version of the following text:

A Visit from St. Nicholas, arguably the basis of reindeer's popularity as Christmas symbols, where Donner and Blitzen were originally called Dunder and Blixem respectively.

and italicize the _correct_ parts, e.g., do _not_ italicize the word "and".

24.68.33.227 (talk) 07:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done --Jnorton7558 (talk) 22:09, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer
The article's "Portrayals" section suggests that the reindeer are commonly depicted as small deer, due to the "tiny" reference in the poem. Could this also be a misinterpretation? It could be that the description of a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer, with a little old driver, could simply suggest that they were seen in the distance, rather than them being literally small! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.45.227 (talk) 10:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Other reindeer actually donkeys
The United States based television program called Saturday Night Live had a skit in which Santa Claus was sick so he called on his buddy Hanukkah Harry to fill in for him. HHarry agrees and flies through the air on a cart pulled by three donkeys, Moische, Herschel and Schlomo. Proposal to add these three to the list of reindeer. Other non reindeer appear on the list, such as a dog and a camel. There is a wikipedia article titled Hanukkah Harry for references. 72.129.148.164 (talk) 03:40, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if you are attempting to make a joke, but in case you aren't, the page is strictly about the traditional list of Santa's reindeer and not those from some one-shot parody on SNL. Ckruschke (talk) 17:20, 13 December 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke


 * Hey. No, actually I'm not trying to make a joke. Although I could see how this might look like that. But, under the subheading Additional Reindeer there are all sorts of made up reindeer, including one's that are actually a dog and a camel, some of which are also one shot deals. Of course, the article is locked, I have no desire to become a regular contributor and in any case I thought I'd propose this and see what people said. Even if I were a regular contributor, I'd want to see what other people thought of this. The Additional Reindeer has many joke reindeer listed. 72.129.148.164 (talk) 23:43, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Origin of reindeers
Well,well. When speaking of biology. Male reideers loose their antlers at autum, after mating season. Only female reindeers have antlers at cristmas time. So... it´s time to rename all Santa´s reindeers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.251.148.247 (talk) 21:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Caribou
Why is there a reference to a caribou? The reindeer comes from Finland - or at least Europe - so would be a reindeer not an American caribou!119.224.91.84 (talk) 08:04, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Caribou is a term used in North America for wild reindeer. Where is the "reference" in this article? — &#124; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard&#124; — 08:18, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Moved post & added sub-heading — &#124; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard&#124; — 08:16, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Caribou redirects to reindeer.


 * Sorry, I should have been more specific. There is a photo of a caribou.119.224.91.84 (talk) 00:48, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I have corrected the legend. Thanks! — &#124; Gareth Griffith-Jones &#124; The Welsh Buzzard&#124; — 01:12, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2013
This article states that the reindeer are imaginary. There is no evidence that they are imaginary. Please can you amend to state that they are may be imaginary but may be real.

5.68.5.115 (talk) 14:26, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but no; they are fictional. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 15:09, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2013
I wonder if it might be appropriate to remove the word imaginary at the start of the article. A young child asked me what it meant.

86.161.189.202 (talk) 10:15, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No, they are imaginary.--Asher196 (talk) 14:31, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Other reindeer
Leave it to my beloved country music performers to create a cousin to Rudolph in a song called "LeRoy the Red-necked Reindeer". It is a terrific song from a southern-rock Christmas point of view. I do not recall who recorded it off hand, but if we are going to mention reindeer which are actually dogs, I believe we should include LeRoy. It seems Rudolph was not feeling well that year and called LeRoy who happily sat in for his "dear" cousin. If you have that kind of sense of humor, the song is quite humorous! Merry Christmas y'all and all y'all have a good night! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.249.99 (talk) 23:43, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

I took time to check, and it seems Joe Diffie recorded it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.249.99 (talk) 13:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree. Feel free to insert that content. Ckruschke (talk) 15:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * I kinda said the same thing, no one has edited it yet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.123.159 (talk) 15:28, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Making it clear that flying reindeer are fictional
I've written a similar section in the Talk page for the Santa Claus article, but I believe that it should be made clear in this article's introduction that reindeer cannot fly (unaided by modern human technology, of course).

In its defense, the article on Santa Claus uses words like "mythical" and "legendary" to describe that particular fictional character, which to my mind doesn't go far enough but is at least a start; but I see little of that in this article, especially in its introduction.

I can't speak for other cultures, but I know that in America everyone from ministers to televised journalists takes part in what amounts to a benevolent conspiracy to convince children that this impossible and illogical myth is in fact real. Wikipedia, however, is an international endeavor, and should not be confined by this strange practice, stating plainly instead in this article's introduction that this article is about a fictional story.

I'm sure that people are afraid that curious children will look up articles like this one and have their Christmas joy dashed if they learn that magic does not exist and reindeer, like virtually every other mammal on earth, have no biological (to say nothing of metaphysical) mechanism of flight or levitation. Nevertheless, this is an encyclopedia article, and if Wikipedia stands for anything it stands for the truth.

2602:306:BC58:5910:CD71:6E00:39B:A6FB (talk) 14:09, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I added "imaginary" to their description.--Asher196 (talk) 17:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sure its not an issue as I haven't met any kids who are old enough to use computers on their own who still think reindeer fly, but ok. Ckruschke (talk) 20:27, 4 December 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke


 * This seems a little unnecessarily in-your-face. Of course wikipedia shouldn't take part in the "conspiracy", however it is worth being aware that it's going to be the top hit on google, and that a *lot* of people would prefer if the preview didn't immediately shout "imaginary". I can easily picture someone sitting down with a kid, searching for "Santa's reindeer", and the kid reading the first few words of the summary before the adult has a chance to click away. Those users would never have a chance - without ever choosing to visit wikipedia, that information has been pushed at them by the sheer weight of its being on wikipedia. It has to be possible to remain factual and complete while using more subtle phrasing and/or pushing the "imaginary" bit back far enough to leave it off the google preview. E.g. "Santa Claus's reindeer (commonly listed as Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, Blitzen and, often, Rudolph) form a mythical team of flying reindeer traditionally held to pull the sleigh of Santa Claus and help him deliver Christmas gifts." CupawnTae (talk) 17:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2013
Umm I request that you add, Leroy the Redneck Reindeer, a Christmas song by country singer Joe Diffie, to the section of Santa's other, or additional reindeer

207.255.123.159 (talk) 15:07, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. I would love to add this to the list... Could you please give me a specific line of text you want added to the section and a link to a reliable source for this song? Something like:
 * Which would produce:
 * Leroy the Redneck Reindeer, a Christmas song by country singer Joe Diffie.
 * Thanks for your interest improving Wikipedia. Technical 13 (talk) 18:18, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Per my suggestion with a proper citation included. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 20:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

How Old Are You In Rudolph Years?
That how-old-are-you-in-Rudolph-years link at the bottom of the page has been there for over five years now. (In case you were wondering, that is equivalent to 1.6 Rudolph years.) Can anyone explain why it's still there? -- KCAuXy4p (talk) 20:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , why do you think anyone would remove it? — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 20:45, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a link to a page that does nothing except multiply a number by 0.32. But if you think it's worth keeping, I'd be happy to create a range of similar tools to enhance other pages like Dog and Cat. (With Google ads, naturally.) -- KCAuXy4p (talk) 21:00, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You're quite right, KCAuXy4p, thanks for pointing it out; I've removed it. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 22:33, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , you beat me to it, I was going to remove the whole section as well. I just didn't know exactly why I was going to do it except maybe COMMONSENSE.  I mean, it is connected to the topic, and since it appears most of the individual reindeer articles were merged her, it may have been appropriate.  It's why I was curious as to why they thought it should be removed.  Anyways, I certainly didn't object, and thank you for taking care of it while I was working on getting this talk page a little more under control. :) — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 23:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Additional "Reindeer"
Under the section "In Music" the song "Santa Claus is watching you" (1962) by country singer Ray Stevens

The lyrics include: An' Santa Claus says 'On, Dasher 'n' Dancer 'n' Prancer 'n' Vixen 'n' Comet 'n' Cupid 'n' Donner 'n' Blitzen 'n' Bruce 'n' Marvin' ("Say, where Rudolph?") "Say 'Well, say he dislocated his hip in a Twist contest   And he's all stove up in the hospital.    Yeah, but we've got a swingin' replacement.    Say, We've got the fastest steed from the sands of the Araymic desert, baby!    Say we got Clyde the Camel.    And then he say 'On, Clyde! On, you big camel!    And Clyde say (camel sounds),    Which is Camel for "Don't bug me, man, Say, I'm pullin' this sled fast as I can! " also noted mentions Clyde as being pressed into service for Rudolph.

12.21.30.4 (talk) 20:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Mike "Growltyger" Tuttle

Disagrees with Christmas Mountains article
This article's version of the 1823 poem appears to differ from the one on the article "Christmas Mountains". The latter lists Dunder as Donder (a later spelling according to this article). It also differs in the spelling of Blitzen-x-etc.

Which of these two articles is using the correct version of the original poem? Tesseract501 (talk) 02:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Why No Grandma?
Judging from this article's edit history, it becomes something of a vandalism magnet as the winter solstice approaches. But, viewing the accretion of trivia that has been allowed to accumulate, I find it somewhat curious that there is no mention of the clever (albeit dark and polarizing) parody song Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer.

—Ziusudra (talk) 22:54, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Comment by 2A02:C7F:BA35:9400:DD3D:646C:D675:E3F3
Never has the song ever featured a Reindeer named Dunner. Yet again America trying to change official lyrics. It's Donna also it's Blitzen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:BA35:9400:DD3D:646C:D675:E3F3 (talk) 20:42, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

correct spelling
While I could tweak the body of the article, the title would still be wrong; could someone change the grammar to read the more accurate "Santa Claus' reindeer"?

32.218.136.120 (talk) 05:24, 25 December 2017 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 01:45, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I was hoping I wouldn't have to bring this up. Thanks. I'll try moving it, see if it moves. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:28, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Nope. Contact an admin as fast as you can! Or whenever you want. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Claus is a singular noun, despite ending with an "s". Per MOS:POSS, For the possessive of singular nouns, including proper names and words ending with an s, add 's. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * Fair enough. But it's still ugly to me. Nothing can ever change that. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:59, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

There is no mention of the 10th Reindeer
The 10th reindeer flew behind (but tethered to) the sleigh. He was a cariboose. I've been told that the Caribouse is fiction. Which makes him every bit as real as the other nine. And by the way: s-apostrophe is when a plural number of things ("persons") possesses something ("persons' hats"). When it's a singular thing ending in an "s", apostrophe-s is correct. Prince Charles's wife. Etc. Of course I have seen "Fox' News Division" in print -- the type of typo typed by the type of tripe who work for Fox's "News" Division.2604:2000:C682:2D00:7413:2650:321E:B740 (talk) 23:28, 27 August 2018 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson

Dutch?
I would prefer a German etymological background for Donner and Blitzen. It is the German spelling of thunder and lightning and not the Dutch one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arndt1969 (talk • contribs) 13:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

German!
Donner (thunder) and Blitzen (lightning) are definitely German. -- 2003:DC:8BE4:FA30:8D58:EE57:AA5B:E4F0 (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Depictions as white-tailed deer
Traditionally, at least in the US, Santa's reindeer have usually been depicted as looking like white-tailed deer -- brown, with small snouts and defined black noses -- as opposed to what reindeer actually look like. Is this notable enough to be mentioned somewhere? Octan (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's a reliable source discussing this, I think it would be worth mentioning. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Donder and Blitzen
The "A Visit From St. Nicholas", handwritten manuscript by Clement C. Moore" has "Donder and Blitzen", not any Dutch version. --Alex1011 (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Appearances in other works: How Murray Saved Christmas
In the Mike Reiss book How Murray Saved Christmas, Murray attempts to name Santa's reindeer:

There's Dumbo and Jumbo and Mason and Dixon, Cosmo and Kramer and Richard M. Nixon.

At the end of the book, he also calls them "by name": On, Lipstick! On, Dipstick! On, Pixie and Dixie! On, Kramden and Norton and Alice and Trixie!

4.7.92.118 (talk) 01:08, 10 December 2019 (UTC)