Talk:Sardonicism

Needs to be rewritten
This article really needs to be rewritten. In particular this:

"Sardonicism (connected with guffaw) characterizes —as distinct from Sarcasm— not a contumely or bitter, but a ferocious, painful derision."

...is possibly the most confusing and obscure introductory sentence I've ever read on Wikipedia. If I didn't know what the word means I would be absolutely clueless after having read this. The point in contributing to an article is not to demonstrate that you have an incredible grasp of the English language, but to communicate simply and clearly the basic information concerning the article's subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.217.22 (talk) 13:45, July 18, 2008


 * Wow, you can't hit the hammer on the head anymore squarely than this. This article is just bad. No references, and the only material which can be remotely verified is the last quoted paragraph in the Origin section. The text about in the beginning The aborigines of Sardinia Latin: Sardoni would kill their elderly and laugh while doing this sounds like folk etymology, and with nothing to back it in terms of verification, this whole article basically boils down to a dictionary definition. I'm tempted to prod or afd this. Yngvarr (t) (c) 22:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I can hardly understand any of this article. Who the hell wrote it? --128.243.253.114 (talk) 15:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * This definitely needs to be completely rewritten. If I weren't so busy with other pointless shit, I'd do it and actually be a useful member of Wikipedia, but...well, actually, that's not even the right definition of sardonic, according to merriam-webster. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sardonic See for yourselves. 65.33.59.183 (talk) 00:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * @Yngvarr This old introduction was inelegant, but benefitted from contrasting rather than conflating terms (German Wiki, which I checked first, still does).
 * Leading with Fran Lebowitz (witty, sarcastic, cynical – but sardonic?), the current intro all but confused me. In regard to a concept that, in itself, appears hard to get.
 * Anecdotal point in case, which led me here: Recently watched McDonagh's "The Banshees of Inisherin" with a friend, and discussed its register(s) of dark humor. Sardonic seemed like a rare fit. Doing some reading up since. 2A02:908:1E6:5A00:D7A:B74B:54DE:FA5A (talk) 11:33, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Per the above challenge by 65.33.59.183 of the previous edit's definition, when first visiting the page I thought I was learning something new about sardonicism (gathering in the process that I had actually had the word's meaning and usage all wrong for decades). After some determined copy and content editing I left a note below, only to have my eyes light on 65.33.59.183's disparagement of the page's very definition of its term. A quick review of reputable sources (e.g. Merriam-Webster, MSN Encarta) indicated the challenge was well founded and a definition reflecting that presented at such sources substituted for the one at the page. Wikiuser100 (talk) 15:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Copy and content edits
In addition to general copy edits to improve the article's readability, a good bit of uncited content (and content based on seemingly original research and/or translation) was removed. Google searches attemtping to corroborate the above proved circular, originating in the Wikipedia article and cloned and parroted elsewhere, or returning hits to individuals' web pages and various blogs rather than reputably published sources. By default (and necessity) a good deal of uncited material remains. The most credible source for a few assertions that could be referenced was used. More detective work is needed.Wikiuser100 (talk) 14:34, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Change to first sentence
I was surprised to see "from risus sardonicus" reappear after a long time. The word Sardonicism - or sardonic - cannot come from 'risus' anything, because that means laugh or laughter. You could argue it comes from 'sardonicus', but this is not supported by the OED, even though The OED citation was left in, That does not support the etymology from risus sardonicus. it says "Etymology: < French sardonique (16th cent.) = Spanish sardónico, Portuguese sardonico , Italian sardonico , as if < Latin *sardonicus , an alteration (by substitution of suffix: see -ic suffix) of sardonius : see sardonian adj. and n.". The Origins section explains this. Myrvin (talk) 07:52, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

The * in the "as if < Latin" part means that 'sardonicus' has not been found in old Latin. Webster's does not mention 'risus sardonicus' at all, and suggests Greek 'sardonios'. The first use of 'risus sardonicus' in the OED comes after the first use of 'sardonick'. Myrvin (talk) 09:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

If there has to be a "from", then dictionaries seem to agree on the French "sardonique". Myrvin (talk) 09:47, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Lead must be Rewritten

 * Starting out the article with that particular dictionary definition is unhelpful. --Mr. Guye (talk) 18:29, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, the entire lead is just a bunch of dictionary definitions. That doesn't flow well.--Mr. Guye (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

The Hemlock water dropwort
Hello! I demoted the section on the Hemlock water dropwort to a subsection of "Risus sardonicus", since it seems to belong there. Nikolaj1905 (talk) 12:38, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

why a picture of one particular person??
The word has wide-ranging history and meaning. It seems awfully kitschy to have a picture of one contemporary figure to frame the whole article. Juanmantoya (talk) 03:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)