Talk:School Rumble/Archive 2

School Rumble Z?
Just wondering, is it an actual sequel, or is it simply a post-series addendum? AllStarZ (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe it may be based off manga Kenji is suppose to be writing. じん  ない  23:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Forget what I said. I wasn't thinking. Yes, it is a sequel. じん  ない  20:00, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

DVD commentary
I'm going to look over the creator commentary the US complete collection so nicely added and see if I can improve this and the related articles. じん ない  01:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just wondering, do you have to buy the complete set to have gotten that or it's also available with the individual DVDs? -- Broken Sphere Msg me 04:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure...I just got the complete set for season 1 and season 2 part 2 (they were out of part 1...but i didn't want to wait for part 2 when it was 50% off).
 * EDIT:You may have to have bought the box set as the commentaries are all on a separate DVD. じん  ない  05:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Merging the games
I believe that perhaps the games should be merged into the main article per how other series deal with them. The games qualify under Visual novel task-force which I'm an active member of and we tend to merge series together if the plot does not radically differ from the original source. Given what I know about the games, they basically fall along the plot lines, but with the ability to end up with a particular girl, at least the 2 PS2 titles do. I doubt the PSP one differs radically from the manga either. We can note differentations from the plot for the games in the section. This will also help strengthen the article as a whole and get it to B- or even higher class. じん ない  01:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

First or last name first?
Del Ray has posted the names in their original order, sirname then personal name. The English DVD release give the personal name first and then the sirname. Furthermore, other independent RS mix them up, sometimes using personal name and then sirname, sometimes sirname then personal and sometimes just the sirname (except for Yakumo and Tenma who have the same last names). NOTE: The manga is the original source here. じん ない  04:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

3rd season
I am getting tired of coming here every other day and seeing this change. I realize that School Rumble is an excpetion for seasons in that the 3rd season was never aired, it has 2 episodes made into OVAs and the rest with concepts written up. So what should it be? 2 or 26 in the infobox? 陣 内 Jinnai 01:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It is 2 episodes, and I thought the agrrement was to wait for the english realse of the dvd before really getting into?--"I am an oktau and a baka at times but deny proven facts and you got a fight" comment added by Dragonmaster88 (talk • contribs) 04:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Has Funimation stated they will translate the last 2? Also, I want to push for this getting to a GA, possibly even an FA (after a copyedit) which means issues like these need to be resolved. I need to finish finding a few references for some items (i've marked them) first. 陣 内 Jinnai 05:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

well, good luck on that Jinaai san =^-^= --"I am an oktau and a baka at times but deny proven facts and you got a fight" comment added by Dragonmaster88 (talk • contribs) 06:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I requested a third opinion about the number and whether to list it as a season or OVA. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ok =^-^=--"I am an oktau and a baka at times but deny proven facts and you got a fight" comment added by Dragonmaster88 (talk • contribs) 05:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Video games
All 3 video games have been merged/redirected here. None of them really pass WP:GNG...at most the PSP one comes closest, however I doubt it could get a quality article on its own. 陣 内 Jinnai 07:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Excessive review
I think there could possibly be too much reviewing summarized in this article (as opposed to info about the series itself). It also seems to be heavily from a single source. For example, I'm trying to find information on Katō Kyōji, but when I search for 'kat' all that comes up on the article is Katherine Luther, an about.com staff writer... 5 times. Is this really needed? Tyciol (talk) 15:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There are a multitude of sources. One of the problems School Rumble has and why it needs more is that earlier works, especially with the anime, tended to have more negative reviews than positive. A review of the series would not catch is and thus violate WP:NPOV. While there might be some way to consoladate and remove some refs, those aspects should be kept it mind.
 * Also please see the current peer review for more input on the subject. 陣 内 Jinnai 19:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The references for reviews don't look like they're heavily from a single source to me. A quick scan of the references section shows heaps of different reviews from different sources. As for there being too much review summaries, what else is expected in a section called Reception and Sales? --Squilibob (talk) 12:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Titles
For the shortest and longest anime titles (which I do believe School Rumble could take as well as possibly longest video game title (or subtitle)) the we would need something like the Japanese guineas world record book. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:57, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Refs check
Running a checklinks tool shows a few problematic URLs in refs: Other than that, all the links seem to check out. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 17:32, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ The GN4 ANN review is stated to be by Carl Kimlinger on March 9, 2007. However, the only ANN review of volume 4 I found was by Carlo Santos, although the date matches.
 * ✅ A redirect link at RightStuf.com appears to be caused by an unnecessary, generated key of some type which changes on every pageview (even when viewing the same page); I removed the key, since the link works fine without it.
 * Cartoon Network IT's School Rumble page has been removed, and I can't find anything new on the series there.
 * ✅ The GN9 ANN review is, again, stated to be by Kimlinger on June 7, 2008, but again, it's actually by Carlo Santos on the same date.
 * ✅ This redirects to CNet.com, but most of the URL matches, so I went ahead and replaced it.
 * ✅ The GN7 ANN review seems to have been moved, although this time the author and date both match up.
 * *sigh* i fixed the Kimlinger/Santos problems. Fixed the broken link problem for 7. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:24, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only thing I can find for CN IT which might have any kind of a chance passing RS previews on youtube...and only youtube. Should I go and remove Italy's CN? I doubt I can verify unless they re-add it or someone from italy has a tv guide or something. 陣 内 Jinnai 03:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe comment it out and ask the project (or KrebMarkt specifically, since he seems to be such a wiz at finding refs) to see if another ref can be dug up? 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 19:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Automed Peer Review
nlyinclude> The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, 陣  内 Jinnai 22:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
 * This article has no or few images. Please see if there are any free use images that fall under the Image use policy and fit under one of the Image copyright tags that can be uploaded. To upload images on Wikipedia, go to Special:Upload; to upload non-fair use images on the Wikimedia Commons, go to commons:special:upload.[?]
 * The script has spotted the following contractions: isn't, doesn't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Reasoning for volume 13 Infoxbox image
This series really breaks the conventions in so many ways. The series revolves around 2 protagonists, not one, as the cover of the first volume with Tenma would indicate. This is not my opinion, but is based on commentary from the author as well as independant reliable sources noting that if anything Harima may be more central than Tenma. Therefore, as the series is really an exception in many cases, such as its unusual titles, being noted for impact on fansubbing, season 2 being pulled and re-rated to TV M in the US this is just another example. The use of this image prevents systemtic bias about the first image always being the best and it is why in this particular case I went ahead and ignored the general rules. 陣 内 Jinnai 22:09, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Copyedit notes
Copyedit now underway; I'll post comments, questions etc under the relevant section subheadings below. EyeSerene talk 08:25, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Wondering why you changed the date formatting? 陣 内 Jinnai 19:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Only just seen this - no good reason (I've since changed it back!) EyeSerene talk 22:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Lead
I'll leave this until last, as it may need to reflect changes in the rest of the article.

Plot

 * Should the first para mention that it's an anime as well as a manga?
 * In the plot, we talk about the primary work which in this case is the manga. In the anime section we talk about the substantial differences, if any, from the manga. If there is enough such as with Popotan compared to its primary work, then a seperate subsection under anime could be warranted. For School Rumble, that isn't really the case.
 * Cites will probably be requested at FAC for the assertions (exaggerated scenes, disregarding reality etc) in the first para. This (and the previous point) may also be better dealt with in another section - is there anything that examines the series style?
 * Check the reception. That might be the best area. It's long though and needs to be broken up.
 * The section uses surnames and firstnames to refer to the characters. Can we be consistent?
 * Well I use what most RS reviewers use here. They specifically mostly use family names for most [male] characters, except Tenma and Yakumo and for the specific reason about the confusion . I know MOS-JA just talks about order. There is some inconsistant usage with the others, except Kenji Harima and Oji Karasuma who is with all but one exception refered to as Harima. It is so prevalent that it is to the point I believe the average reader who actually is semi-familiar with the series would not know, if the first name was used, would not realize who they were talking about, especially for Oji Karasuma as both of their last names are used almost exclusively in all forms of media and by the RS reviewers.
 * Edited. After re-reading some I found A few use first names for some characters, mostly Tenma's friends. However Harima, Hanai and Kurasama are always family name. Should I change them to all last name except Tenma and Yakumo, even though as mentioned for similar reasons characters like Mikoto Sou are known almost exclusively by her first name? 陣 内 Jinnai 20:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree it's difficult. Perhaps all we can realistically do is ensure it's clear who we are talking about (so the reader doesn't need to backtrack too much thinking "who's that?"), and make the article is internally consistent. EyeSerene talk 07:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What's the significance of the "plate of curry"?
 * That is a main running gag in the series that Karasuma would prefer a plate of curry over anything and even has trouble deciding on whether he likes Tenma or certain low-quality curry more.
 * ✅ Harima's manga may need further explanation - presumably he is writing one?
 * Yes...mostly on shot manga based on his relationship with Tenma, but in fictional and sometimes fantasical settings. The main characters look like them and at the end the girl representing Tenma falls for the girl representing Harima.
 * Added some info. 陣 内 Jinnai 21:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Manga

 * Do we have a date for the Kawaii Kon convention mentioned?
 * Added.
 * Drama CD... as I understand it, this is essentially an audio drama production. Was School Rumble released as one of these too, or is the text referring to something else?
 * Yes there was an audio drama. No name was given to what it was called or anything. 陣 内 Jinnai 11:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's a pain we know nothing about the production, but if no more information exists it can't be helped :) EyeSerene talk 13:52, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Because that bit is so sparse, I've removed it completely. No objections if you think it should go back in, but in that case I really think we need more sourced information. EyeSerene talk 12:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there any more information available on when Kobayashi was approached about turning the series into an anime?
 * No. He didn't say and nor has anyone else.
 * I've used the word "filming" to refer to the anime production - is this correct?
 * "filming" is generally not the correct term for animation productions (having background in this area I can say this with confidence). Filming is specifically for live-action or sometimes used with stop-motion animation. While it has been used on occasion for traditional animation, its not considered standard usage. 陣 内 Jinnai 14:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't think it was, but couldn't think of anything more apposite. Got any suggestions? EyeSerene talk 15:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Looked at it and changed it to "animating". 陣 内 Jinnai 21:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Better :) EyeSerene talk 11:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Anime

 * OVA episodes?
 * Not sure what you mean here. 陣 内 Jinnai 19:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, should have been clearer. What is OVA? EyeSerene talk 10:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC) Never mind :P  EyeSerene talk 11:34, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit confused about the SR:Third Term stuff (relating to episodes 25 and 26/miniseries/etc)
 * Well...season 3 was never shown. A fictional synopsis of season 3 is put on the website with the understood premise that it had been shown and later episodes 25 and 26 were released with the last 2 volumes in special eidtions. The term OVA was never actually used, although they attribute everything of an OVA, but they were also made as part of episodes of a season therefore it's unclear how to classify them (they are listed as third term episode 25 and 26 and not 1 and 2). 陣 内 Jinnai 19:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think I understand now, but you should probably check my edits to that section :) EyeSerene talk 10:36, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Music

 * What's Yokohama BLITZ?
 * Is the second sentence (radio dramas etc) relevant to this section?
 * Same for stage play (para 2)

Other related media

 * The article doesn't say, but I assume the games weren't released outside Japan?
 * Yes. Since a negative is almost impossible to verify, the statement is left unsaid.
 * True, but I guess we can justifiably say they were released in Japan and leave the reader to draw their own conclusions EyeSerene talk 14:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well considering i've been cited when i tried to state for List of Popotan episodes as a FLC that the releases here did not come with promotional items that it was an unsourced controversial statement and had to remove it, I have since assumed the same for anything else like that. 陣 内 Jinnai 17:45, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there any more information on the musical?
 * No. Other than that it wasn't created by Kobayashi or Kodansha.
 * What is a "Best Collection"?
 * Re-releases of popular video games, where they get a "Best Collection" label on their cover and are much cheaper. They do that over here in the US as well for playstation products. 陣 内 Jinnai 14:33, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, here in the UK too. I wasn't sure if it was that, or a compilation-type release. EyeSerene talk 14:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Fansub controversy
(renamed section to more accurately reflect content)
 * Re the debate, the article states the proponents' position, but is there anything about what the critics position was/is?
 * Not that can come from RSes unfortunately. It's basically just the opposite of what the proponents say. There has been no conclusive data to state that the proponents arguments are valid or invalid. 陣 内 Jinnai 14:38, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough :) EyeSerene talk 14:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Reception and sales

 * There's a lot of information in this section. Could it be trimmed? One way, rather than detailing each individual reviewer's opinion, might be to clump them together (eg "The manga received largely positive reviews, with X, Y and Z praising its use of...")
 * There are 2 basic premise for the first season. One, either people liked the whole of season 1 or they didn't like it at first, but liked it as they began watching more of it. Season 2 is rather consistant as is the Extra class OVAs. There's other info in there about the artwork and such.
 * The manga is a bit more difficult as it really depends on the volume and the reader. All of them liked it to some extent, but each one had different items they critiqued, including for each volume.
 * On the whole, it does need to be cleared up, especially the anime. I'm just not sure how to go about doing it. I would like that long quote to stay as it sums up a lot of what the general feelings of most of the reviewers are. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've butchered trimmed the section by moving some information to other sections, and removing text that was saying essentially the same thing more than once. I hope this hasn't altered anything too mcuh; please rv if necessary! EyeSerene talk 12:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Manga

 * What's "chichic"?
 * cliché. dunno how it managed to become chichic. 陣 内 Jinnai 18:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

How/where does the story really end?
I read timing of the the reunion at the church with 2-C and Karasuma in the US as occurring after the students are out of high school. The final chapter of SR Z which shows the graduation shows that Tenma and Karasuma returned for the graduation. However during this chapter there is also a future sequence that suggests that Harima and Eri are together and had a child. This contrasts with Harima's feelings for Tenma in the final regular manga chapter. Did I miss something? (I do have a lot of reading from 8 on to do in detail). -- Broken Sphere Msg me 01:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That is not a future sequence. That is someone's imaginary future sequence. Given the prevelence of how Kobayashi uses dream sequences and how they often do not match with reality then or in the future, that sequence has little credit on than for what it is. 陣 内 Jinnai 04:13, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So the actual ending is the manga ending, with views of the future from Z. -- Broken Sphere Msg me 21:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No. The first part is right; the actual ending is the ending given. The views of the future are pure conjecture like Harima dreaming of Tenma falling in love with him after he saves he defeats Kurasama. 陣 内 Jinnai 22:09, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm, the last part of your statement there threw me off a bit. Are you talking about the reunion at the church?  So the actual ending is the 3rd year graduation?   Broken Sphere Msg me 01:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. The graduation is the actual ending. 陣 内 Jinnai 21:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Commentary for bike scene
The narrative of School Rumble is shown through the perception of the characters, notably Tenma and Harima. The series often shifts between the two characters as they both think up similar schemes in order to attract the attention of the one whose affection they pine for. The series uses these types of situtions along with absurdist humor often combining eleements of popular culture to tell the narrative of the love-triangle. One such example is the bike chase scene in episode 2 of season one. Lisa Marie, reviewer for ANIME TODAY, comments specifically about the reference with how while one could appreciate that scene for the obvious humor of the bike chase itself, those who realize why the series has a scene in "cheesily rendered CG set to slow moving Eurobeat" have another level to appreciate the humo that does not interfrere with the viewers who do not catch this reference.

This is basically what the commentarily for the video i plan to upload under WP:FAIR USE would be. I'm not certain where it should be placed at the moment though; in the plot, describing the anime or commentary on the anime? 陣 内 Jinnai 02:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)