Talk:Seniority in the United States Senate/Archives/2019
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John Cornyn
The current version of the Senate's historical membership list: https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/chronlist.pdf has Cornyn taking office on December 2, 2002, with seniority from that date and not from January 3, 2003. It is indisputably the case that he took office on Dec. 2; the issue is that, for years, this article has maintained that he didn't get seniority until Jan. 3 because of the 1980 Rules Committee policy. Either his seniority has been retroactively increased or this article has been wrong all along. Either way, it needs to be changed, but I wanted to explain the reasoning before getting into an edit war. JTRH (talk) 15:01, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
- I guess they must have. I'd wait until the Senate issues an updated list with all of this year's freshmen, to confirm for sure. Sbb618 (talk) 20:09, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
- Cornyn's seniority dates back to Dec 2, 2002, but his ability to get preferential office space does not. A note should be included in this article to that effect. The Senate has issued an updated list with all of this year (2019)'s freshman now. —GoldRingChip 12:34, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Most junior senior senator
In the new Congress this will be Senator Cortez Masto rather than Senator Cassidy. Is this already reflected in draft anywhere? LE (talk) 03:12, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- Senator Kyl is leaving at the end of the year so in the new congress the Most junior senior senator will either be Sinema or Kyls replacement if appointed before Jan 3 עם ישראל חי (talk) 15:25, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- Good point, but as I've said before, I personally feel that this is a very trivial detail. Being the senior senator from your state no longer has the distinction that it used to. Overall seniority is much more important. JTRH (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- True buts it's only a minor note so keep it עם ישראל חי (talk) 17:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that the most junior senior (and the most senior junior) are very trivial. In fact, I'm not sure it has any distinction anywhere outside of this article. Is it really worth keeping or is it just trivia-bait? —GoldRingChip 17:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- it doesn't but it has been there since the start of the page over 10 years ago and it is just a minor note no reason to delete it. עם ישראל חי (talk) 19:15, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that the most junior senior (and the most senior junior) are very trivial. In fact, I'm not sure it has any distinction anywhere outside of this article. Is it really worth keeping or is it just trivia-bait? —GoldRingChip 17:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- True buts it's only a minor note so keep it עם ישראל חי (talk) 17:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- Good point, but as I've said before, I personally feel that this is a very trivial detail. Being the senior senator from your state no longer has the distinction that it used to. Overall seniority is much more important. JTRH (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Sinema vs. McSally
Apparently it will be Sinema who gets to be senior even though it has just been announced that McSally will replace Kyl: https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/politics/martha-mcsally-arizona-senate/ LE (talk) 23:46, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- actually it will be McSally at it goes by date of appointment which would be the day Kyl resigns עם ישראל חי (talk) 15:11, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- It will be whomever is qualified. Unless she resigns, McSally will be a member of the U.S. House of Representatives until January 3, which disqualifies her from serving in the Senate. —GoldRingChip 16:02, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- you are correct so sinema will be senior עם ישראל חי (talk) 16:35, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- The article says they will both be sworn in on Jan. 3, with Sinema first, so she will be senior. JTRH (talk) 17:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- It does say that, but an oath does not make a Senator. —GoldRingChip 18:34, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- In this article, the governor explicitly says that Sinema will be senior because she will be sworn in first. https://www.apnews.com/cb8eee21e5484e31a5e042dcbadc6e52 JTRH (talk) 07:55, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- He does say that, but he does not decide seniority. —GoldRingChip 13:02, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- I assume he has been advised by those who do. Are you suggesting that these news reports are inaccurate or uninformed? JTRH (talk) 13:23, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Arizona Republic: In addition to the fact that seniority in this case is explicitly determined by which one is sworn in first, Sinema has been in the House longer than McSally, so she’d win the tiebreaker. JTRH (talk) 13:31, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Seniority is based on beginning of service, not on oaths or declarations. It's when McNally's appointment is effective and when she qualifies. We'll have to see when her term in the Senate actually does begin. If, as supposed by some, her term begins Jan 3 at noon, then the tie-breaker (length of time in US House) would be used. If her term begins sooner (because she resigns her seat and is appointed before noon Jan 3), then she gets seniority. There are some other permutations that might occur as well. But it's not enough for a Governor to declare seniority, or for the Senator herself. Let's wait and see what happens instead of speculating when there are too many variables. The definitive list will be here on the Senate website anyway. I am a patient editor. —GoldRingChip 17:40, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Here’s a specific description of how it’s going to work. JTRH (talk) 14:30, 22 December 2018 (UTC) ≤https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/arizona-governor-appoint-martha-mcsally-mccains-senate-seat
- Seniority is based on beginning of service, not on oaths or declarations. It's when McNally's appointment is effective and when she qualifies. We'll have to see when her term in the Senate actually does begin. If, as supposed by some, her term begins Jan 3 at noon, then the tie-breaker (length of time in US House) would be used. If her term begins sooner (because she resigns her seat and is appointed before noon Jan 3), then she gets seniority. There are some other permutations that might occur as well. But it's not enough for a Governor to declare seniority, or for the Senator herself. Let's wait and see what happens instead of speculating when there are too many variables. The definitive list will be here on the Senate website anyway. I am a patient editor. —GoldRingChip 17:40, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- Arizona Republic: In addition to the fact that seniority in this case is explicitly determined by which one is sworn in first, Sinema has been in the House longer than McSally, so she’d win the tiebreaker. JTRH (talk) 13:31, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- I assume he has been advised by those who do. Are you suggesting that these news reports are inaccurate or uninformed? JTRH (talk) 13:23, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- He does say that, but he does not decide seniority. —GoldRingChip 13:02, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- In this article, the governor explicitly says that Sinema will be senior because she will be sworn in first. https://www.apnews.com/cb8eee21e5484e31a5e042dcbadc6e52 JTRH (talk) 07:55, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
- It does say that, but an oath does not make a Senator. —GoldRingChip 18:34, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- The article says they will both be sworn in on Jan. 3, with Sinema first, so she will be senior. JTRH (talk) 17:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- you are correct so sinema will be senior עם ישראל חי (talk) 16:35, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- It will be whomever is qualified. Unless she resigns, McSally will be a member of the U.S. House of Representatives until January 3, which disqualifies her from serving in the Senate. —GoldRingChip 16:02, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
The article actually gives no specific description of how it’s going to work. Just that the governor says it’s going to happen. No description of "how." —GoldRingChip 17:37, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- The governor appoints McSally after Sinema is sworn in. He controls the timing of the appointment. JTRH (talk) 18:08, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that it could happen that way, but the citation does not say that he will do it that way. —GoldRingChip 16:23, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Result
The oath was irrelevant. McSally's seniority is based on her shorter service in the U.S. House. —GoldRingChip 12:44, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
- If McSally's appointment had been effective before Sinema was sworn in, she would have been the senior senator. That was the whole point of not filling the vacancy as soon as Kyl resigned. JTRH (talk) 13:26, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
- Sure, but the appointment was effective on Jan 3, regardless of what HOUR on that day. That's all. The appointment was effective on January 3, but the Governor can't decide when a Senator will say an oath. —GoldRingChip 13:34, 4 January 2019 (UTC)