Talk:Sense8/Archive 1

This might be of interest to those maintaining the page.
As far back as 2007, Joe Straczynski was posting messages about a project he was developing a year earlier. Here’s a quote and link. It doesn’t go into specifics, but the description and two film makers does seem to be similar to what is now known as Sense8. http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-3718

"For the last year, very much under the radar, I've been working with two film makers who have created some of the biggest SF movies in the last twenty years on a television project. (I can't reveal their identities, but pick any three of their movies and you have box office of over two billion dollars.) We've been quietly writing and creating the first three scripts for a new SF series that would pretty much revolutionize the form, and which have gone out to the networks for auction. Offers are coming in. Whether or not the offers are enough to make the project work -- it's huge -- remains to be seen. Where this goes will be determined in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.183.243.143 (talk) 16:28, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

William Blake
In episodes 6, "Demons", Sun and Riley converse on Primrose Hill looking out over London. Riley is surprised to learn Sun's name given their location. William Blake's quotation "I have conversed with the spiritual sun. I saw him on Primrose Hill" is etched into a plaque, part of a 2012 design for the well-known vantage point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oceanflynn (talk • contribs) 00:17, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Second season / sequel
Any tangible detail about a second season (with the same Sensates) or a sequel (with another group) ? Hektor (talk) 22:22, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * No information yet, it seems. According to this article, we should hear about it very soon.–Totie (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Capheus' last name
Capheus' last name is not van Damme - it's just the nickname he picks up after he fights the Superpower gang because he's fan of Jean-Claude Van Damme /drives the Van Damme Bus and people start calling him "Van Damme" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.140.59 (talk) 20:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's not the Van Damme Bus, but the Van Damn. Neither it, nor their competition is a full sized bus (they're 'minibuses.') and both have puns with the word 'van' for names, The other one is the Bat Van. Ock Raz  talk  13:20, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Mythology of Sense8
Wikipedia is not a repository for summary-only descriptions of works (WP:NOTPLOT). This sub-topic article is an entirely in-universe description of fictional mythology, sourced almost entirely by primary sources (the series itself). Unlikely to satisfy WP:GNG for a stand-alone article, and salient plot elements should be succinctly summarized in the parent article. Anything more detailed should be relegated to fan wikis. --Animalparty! (talk) 21:23, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Reads like a Sense8 Wikia.–Totie (talk) 21:50, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Definitely needs merging. It's poorly written, with no context for references to characters, and is very fancrufty.  It's a couple of paragraphs at most stretched into a non-notable article, with the majority of the content duplicating what's in the main article.  --Drmargi (talk) 22:33, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think so as well, but if the mythology becomes outstandingly complex as time goes on, then I think it'd be alright to make it a separate page. --User:TheGnerd talk) 7:04 August 9, 2015 (EST)
 * Assuming there is someday enough significant coverage on the complex mythology as a whole, rather than isolated snippets (Entertainment Weekly mentioning the word "psycellium" in an episode review would be insufficient), then a stand-alone article may be warranted, again per WP:GNG. Fictional topics can be discussed, but should be balanced with real world information. --Animalparty! (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, exactly what Totie said. When 99% of an article's references are the work itself, it doesn't stand on enough sources to live here. 2605:E000:4DDB:FE00:80EA:B19D:6EB3:59DE (talk) 15:08, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge. It's not even a close call. There's nowhere near enough material published about the mythology of this show to meet the notability standard. If it completes 3 seasons and amasses a fan base that starts writing, broadcasting, and/or publishing about the world the show is set in, then it will merit a separate article, but that's certainly not the case now. Ock Raz  talk  13:13, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

It looks like there is consensus to merge, and that Mythology of Sense8 should not be a stand alone article at this time. The question then becomes how much of the latter to incorporate into Sense8 (all? some? none?). I will leave that decision to editors more familiar with the program than I. --Animalparty! (talk) 18:04, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I have proposed the article Mythology of Sense8 for deletion, as I do do not think there is sufficient third-party content to warrant a merge. --Animalparty! (talk) 23:33, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

So much excess essay here
Why is there a magazine style article for the last portion of this page? It's a fawning portion about motivations and the "art" behind this and it seems very out of place, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:6824:d8d0:882c:a87e:8431:e85d (talk) 05:20, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Highlighting of individual edits vs. paragraph
Using this edit as an example, can anyone explain to me why the whole paragraph lights up, instead of the individual edits? I've noticed this has happened quite a few times. If not, I may take it to the village pump to see if I can get answers there. Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 11:49, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd take it to the village pump. Both myself and Freemanukem have tried to rectify the issue through various methods to no avail.-- Ditto51 ( My Talk Page ) 12:23, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's some reference, or combination of references. On my sandbox I stripped the first paragraph of Season 2 of the text, with only the references remaining and the problem remained. Try it yourself, here is a (somewhat dated) copy of the first paragraph of Season 2's references: http://pastebin.com/HEMEXT1M Try changing say, the title of the first reference, it highlights everything. If I removed/reordered some references the problem would "randomly" go away, meaning I'd be like "okay so that's the problematic reference so let's skip it for now and I'll investigate later" but a couple of references later (I was adding them one by one) the problem would appear again. So I'd be like "ok, so maybe that wasn't the problematic reference but maybe it was the one preceding it?" but everything seemed inconsistent and I couldn't figure it out. The problem affects the first paragraph of Season 2 and #Filming.Freemanukem (talk) 14:22, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The built-in diff can be hard to follow sometimes (though this particular case is just a bug), try wikEdDiff. – nyuszika7h (talk) 14:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It appears someone finally fixed whatever bug there was in the software side. Yay! Freemanukem (talk) 11:51, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Basque?
Lito is described as Basque in the article. Does anyone know what's the source for that? I'd assumed he was Mexican. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:05, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * In episode 2 the reporter and Daniela reveal that Lito has Spanish blood since his father, a dance teacher, was from Bilbao and taught in Barcelona. Bilbao is Basque Country's largest city. We don't know if his mother is also from Spain or perhaps Mexico, which would then make him half-Basque, half-Mexican. For now the statement that he is of Basque background is the most accurate description. Freemanukem (talk) 21:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'd forgotten that. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:17, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Sources to avoid
Since it came up, take a look at what sites like Parent Herald post, and you'll understand why they cannot be considered a reliable source.

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/16730/20160121/sense8-season-2-release-date-cast-update-show-to-premiere-late-2016-will-stays-connected-to-whispers-spoilers.htm

"Series writer Bryce Olin revealed via a Reddit post that while everyone wants to see 'Sense8' Season 2 this June, they may have to wait a little longer for that."

"Bryce Olin" is not a writer of Sense8, what are you talking about?!

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/78956/20161029/sense-8-season-2-cancellation-debunked-aml-ameen-returns.htm

"'Viewers of 'Sense8' Season 2 were almost certain that Aml Ameen is the culprit with regards to the rumored cancellation of the show. Now that he's returning, what can they say?'"

The show was never going to get cancelled and Ameen is most definitely not returning!! Again, there's no source, no nothing about where they got that from.

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/76637/20161023/sense8-season-2-news-update-bae-doonas-departure-results-2s.htm

"However, reports have it that 'Sense8' season 2 is canceled due to Bae Doona's departure but some sources claim that it's not true."

What departure? And where are these reports?

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/78755/20161028/sense8-season-2-news-update-new-feature-two-capheus-aml.htm

"One reader commented that Aml Ameen has issues working with transsexuals. In fact, the British actor is not the most LGBT friendly star in the industry."

How is this exactly a fact? That's straight up libel!!

However, there are rumors that Aml Ameen is set to return in "Sense8" Season 2. Parent Herald previously reported that Toby Onwumere's Capheus is different from Aml Ameen's Capheus character. The two actors have similar physical features and getting them to play one character in different roles prompt "Sense8" fans to thin that there might be a good and evil Capheus in "Sense8" Season 2.

Aside from a potential battle of the two Capheus in "Sense8" Season 2, here's the major highlights in the new season that "Sense8" fans should look forward to.

"Battle of the two Capheus"?! LMAOOOOOO! You can't make this stuff up!!

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/36917/20160414/sense8-season-2-air-date-news-updates-will-the-eight-sensates-defeat-whispers-spoilers.htm

"As seen on 'Sense8' Season 1, Will had to be put off to sleep when the Sensates realized that he established a connection with Jonas' cluster after the former made eye contact with Whispers. In order to keep his cluster's plans from becoming known to Jonas, Will decided to remain sedated until the Sensates find a way to cut their connection."

But that's NOT what happened in Season 1! Will is hiding from Whispers, not Jonas!

There are other sites exactly like parentherald.com that do the same. In fact, all those sites link to one another and write a nebulous "according to reports", so that people don't actually realize there are NO such reports. They are just linking to themselves. It's probable many of those sites are owned by the same corporation(s).

Here's another: http://christiantimes.com/article/sense8-season-2-news-updates-series-canceled-due-to-casting-and-financial-problems-spin-off-being-considered/60976.htm

"Fans are also hoping that a spin-off will be considered in case the show gets axed."

Who are exactly those fans hoping for a spin-off?? Where did they find them? Fans are EXPECTING Season 2! They are not "hoping" for it and they are not "hoping" for a spin-off!!!

And one more: http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/43304/20160905/sense8-season-2-air-date-spoilers-news-update-sikandar-kher-tortures-wolfgang-rajan-to-have-kala-alone-netflix-cancelled-the-series.htm

"Reports suggest that the crew and cast of the Netflix series are currently having a spat. Insiders say that the writers have presented the plot of the upcoming 'Sense8' Season 2 but the cast were not happy about it especially Max Riemelt, Purab Kohli and Tina Desai, who are having their tragic deaths soon."

...no comment!!

My point is these sites should absolutely be avoided since they produce no original content, they just repackage existing one and add some fake info/news/drama to it. So because they produce no original content that makes them very easy to replace with an actual reliable source, instead of having to think "Hm.. well.. sentence 3 is correct.. sentences 2, 4 and 6 are outright fabrications.. Is this a good source? (Hint: No, it's not). I mean, not every single sentence is wrong...."


 * Parent Herald
 * University Herald
 * Lawyer Herald
 * Gamenguide
 * Cross Map
 * The Christian Times
 * Christian Daily
 * Christian Today
 * Ecumenical News
 * Vine Report
 * Movie News Guide

and many more. Thankfully, they are easy to spot if you know what to look for. Also frequently they are ridden with spelling errors and some times their articles don't even make any sense in English as they have been machine translated by god knows what language.

Here's J. Michael Straczynski's response on the validity of those sites: http://news.swccd.edu/2016/10/j-michael-straczynski-returns-soutwhestern-college/

"'The 'Sense8' 'cancellation rumors' are just clickbait by a handful of interconnected sites that use that sort of thing to drive traffic to their sites. (It's not just us, they do this with a variety of shows.) When you get there you always find out that no, there’s no evidence of this or even any indication, they're just looking for clicks. They were saying season 2 was canceled while we were right in the middle of shooting season two. They're idiots and should be treated as such.'"Freemanukem (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Although I am allergic to ranting editors, I have no problem with the removal of the source, since the statements is now precise and clearly sourced. Debresser (talk) 17:56, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the multiple question/exclamation marks and "LMAOOOOOO" were just plain unnecessary. And links can be shortened to this format, instead of requiring a new line every time. Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 23:12, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
 * True, true, but the first time I wrote in the edit summary about why that site should be avoided didn't take, so I decided I had to be a lot more "verbose" here in order to make sure my point gets across. Unencyclopedic, sure. But it worked. Freemanukem (talk) 11:35, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It did not work. I agreed with your point after reviewing the edit with the edit-summary, before even seeing the talkpage. Debresser (talk) 22:21, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Christmas special
Should the Christmas special be kept separate, or as part of Season 2's table? On one side, Season 2 is marketed as only 10 episodes, and the special is marketed as just that - a special; however on the other site, the article states "Lana came up with the idea of making the first episode of the second season a Christmas special [...]", and Netflix lists the episode under Season 2. Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 08:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I think the final product is all that matters. While it was marketed as a separate thing, that's not how it was eventually released; if it shows up as the 1st ep of S2 on Netflix, that's how we should treat it. So, I think it should be a part of the S2 table, listed as S02E01 accompanied with a note explaining the situation. We can also use this article (among other sources): http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/sense8-a-christmas-special-netflix-review/ which explains that "the Netflix interface will wisely just consider it part of the second season, rather than treating it as a standalone program".Freemanukem (talk) 14:45, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The thing is, I'm not entirely sure that is certain confirmation that it's regarded as the first episode of the second season. Perhaps we should wait for a source with a quote directly from the showrunners? Failing that, it may be best to leave it as it is until May, and then list them as they appear on Netflix. Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 10:52, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Christmas special is a part of season 2
Netflix includes the Christmas special as part of season 2, and they say "More Episodes of Season 2 Coming May 5". nyuszika7h (talk) 14:09, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * There was actually a discussion on this somewhere, where we decided to wait for Season 2, and proceed from there... I'll see if I can find it. Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 00:11, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Lots of background, no foreground
This article goes into extraordinary behind-the-scenes detail but fails to summarise what Sense8 *is* or what it is *about*. There should be some kind of one-sentence summary in the first paragraph, and a synopsis somewhere early in the article. Suggest greatly reducing the amount of text before "Premise". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.181.245 (talk • contribs)
 * You are more than welcome to provide this sort of detail. --  Alex TW 03:24, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Other than changing the "Premise" to "Plot summary" (or something) and expanding it to 2-3 paragraphs, I think it's fine as it is. I mean even in its current form one can understand what "Sense8 is about" IMO, they are just missing the "why". (Why do these people exist? Why are they hunted? etc.) Freemanukem (talk) 10:17, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I also just noticed that according to WP:TVPLOT, "...the plot summary at the series article should be replaced with a simple overview or premise section that allocates around 100 words per season (such as a logline for each season in non-copyrighted language)." Currently, we are at 133 words for one season, while the general recommendation is it should be 100 + 100. So, it appears there's not a lot of room for expansion, really. Only a few basic info about what the plot is can be provided, and if one wants more they are welcomed to read the episodes' synopses. From what it says there in WP:TVPLOT, the premise is provided (mostly) so that there is context for the other sections of the article. So it does makes sense, there's "lots of background, no foreground" in the article. Also, regarding "greatly reducing the amount of text before "Premise"", I think what we have there is a good summary of the whole article. Per WP:TVLEAD, "A general rule of thumb is to write at least one sentence on each section of the article", and we have 1-2 sentence for each section, and, also, it says it should summarize: "basic production information (e.g. where the show is filmed), principal cast of the show, critical reception, influences, place in popular culture, major awards, and anything else that made the show unique", which we also currently do. You can't summarize all that in just 1 short paragraph! Freemanukem (talk) 20:03, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Sense8' unknown writer
I know that the main writer for sense8 is Hana Saba, as he is the idea creative As unknown writer he sold the story for Netflix company Hanasab69 (talk) 08:24, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Then, please just add a reference. -- Medmig (talk) 08:29, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Most definitely not true. Freemanukem (talk) 10:31, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

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List of Filming Locations
Would it be feasible to make page or section for a list of filming locations? One that would be similar to the "List of Star Wars filming locations" page, which includes maps of locations that the movie series has filmed in. Just an idea I think would be cool to have for Sense8 since the show has filmed in 14 countries snd over 20 cities! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ok1007007 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Split Production
I think the Production section for Sense8 should be split into its own article at Production of Sense8, with the Production section here acting only as a summation of that article. Thoughts? ? --  Alex TW 11:18, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * For a long time now (prior to the release of season 2), I have had a similar plan. My plan was to copy most of it into the Season 1 & 2 articles, and what would remain here would be a summary of that content and content that is not season-specific. It's especially Filming and locations that would benefit (which is the reason I have already copied it in the 2 season articles). An example of the structure that I'm talking about is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. The main reason I never did it is that I was waiting for season 2 to release, then the show got canceled, and then I was looking to see if it would get renewed, and lastly I decided to wait for the (probably) finale to be released, because it's also unclear if it's going to be part of season 2 or its own thing. So, what do you think of enriching the season-specific articles instead of creating Production of Sense8? Freemanukem (talk) 11:43, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * My bad, I actually went ahead with the split before I saw your reply... I think including all of the production in one article and summarizing in the three others, that would be better than splitting it over the two season articles and summarizing it in one, as the production is a major part of what makes this series. --  Alex TW 12:01, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, that means "I have to" keep +1 article in sync with the others, so that's why I wanted to avoid it, as I'm not giving but the main article the same amount of attention due to lack of time (e.g. I have yet to update the RT scores in the season specific ones). (Of course I don't own the content yadda, yadda, that's not how I mean the "I have to" part, just talking as the main contributor so far, who also plans to stay with it as long as I can.) Then again if the series ends, there aren't going to be as many edits in the future, so it might be ok. I do agree the series' production is rather special. But I also think there's going to be a lot of repetition, in up to 3 different articles, like that. I don't think some sections should or can be summarized. e.g. Conception, Title sequence, Future, are fine as they are in the main article. This is why I was mainly planning to do it for the Filming and locations instead of the entirety of Production. Freemanukem (talk) 12:16, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I've performed some further major trims; I think that'll do for now, as now that the separate article exists, the section here should only be a summary, which gave 2 (3 in one case) paragraphs for each section. We've gone from ~214k bytes to ~122k bytes, which is 92k bytes from this article and 166k bytes at the Production article. Per WP:SIZESPLIT, that's definite cause to split. Any further developments on the series should only need a sentence or two added to this article; all other focus can be put towards the Production article. The season articles could pretty much stay as they are. --  Alex TW 03:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well done. I might restore a sentence or two that I feel should remain (not sure; I will go through the article again later), but overall I think you did a great job. :) Freemanukem (talk) 10:01, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Cheers. And yeah, definitely, go for it! Now, we can only wait to hear for news on the finale... --  Alex TW 10:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, could you please be specific on the which parts you feel have been unnecessarily restored?


 * For example on "Conception and development" what I restored was: "The title of the show was thought up by Lana on their second day of brainstorming, as a play on the word sensate and the notion of eight main characters.", so that we explain the "Sense8 (a play on the word sensate /ˈsɛnseɪt/)" part at the top of the article, and also added "which during filming was extended to 12.", to explain why we see 12 episodes in the tables instead of 10. Otherwise the reader would be confused why it says 10 episodes in one part, and 12 on another.


 * On "Writing" what I restored was "Later, once filming began, Lana did a lot of rewrites on a daily basis as she got inspired by the locations, actors, and so on, even on the set.", just one sentence, because it's one of the things very unique to the show. Meanwhile I took out "Working 12-14 hours a day for six days per week, the three of them developed an outline within a week. Later, they had it cut down to 130 pages and sent to the crew to begin pre-production, and some time later the actors received the final version, further revised and shortened", 2 sentences that go into numerical detail, so the restorations so far balance themselves out.


 * On "Effects and editing" I restored "Because of the series' tight budget and timeline the production made the decision to do most of the effects in-camera and only enhance them digitally where appropriate. In fact for a great number of shots which involved the sensates communicating and visiting each other telepathically the cast were simply moving in and out of the frame in timely fashion requiring no additional work.", because it's the most significant effect of the show. I can further trim that to "Because of the series' tight budget and timeline the production made the decision to do the telepathy effect of sensates communicating in-camera". Good?


 * On "Music and title sequence" I took out "Responsible for the orchestration was their fellow Cloud Atlas collaborator Gene Pritsker" and "including a shot of the Wachowskis' parents. The closing credits of each episode credit Winslow for the "main title design"" as unnecessary detail, so no restorations there!


 * On "Filming and cinematography" I restored more and I suspect that's what you didn't particularly like. I will take a look into it, but in the meantime could you please address my above highlighted changes and proposals? Thanks! Freemanukem (talk) 06:36, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Source of the rip
As is often the case, there's an original work which is commercialized to get this stuff, and from which it is lifted and almost invariably degraded. I like pointing that out (as I did in re Scotty Bowers and the Hollywood series). In this case the plot basically comes from Olivia Butler's Mind of My Mind. Lycurgus (talk) 05:14, 30 December 2020 (UTC)