Talk:Sentencing in England and Wales

Sections: Retribution/punishment, Deterrence, Reform/rehabilitation, Incapacitation protection of the public, Reparation, Denunciation
I don't think these sections sit well with an article which is specifically entitled "Sentencing in England and Wales". I suggest one sentence to explain each concept would be fine without the philosophical input which would be better suited to a separate article entitled "The Theory of Sentencing in Criminal Courts". Does anyone have a view? Shaibalahmar (talk) 07:14, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I probably would have agreed with you until the passage of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, as Judges and Magistrates following the Act are now bound to consider the aims of scenting. Furthermore, the major textbooks on the English Legal System tend to devote at least 2 - 4 page on aims of sentencing when it could be  a lot more. Also the the theories include specific England and Wales related examples. -- Ratio: Decidendi   · [ Talk ] 10:55, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * That wasn't really my point. I just don't think the article should go off on a philosophical (e.g. Kant, Bentham) or political (Hague) tangent when the principles of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 are already pretty clear. Going back to Hansard for the debates on the Act should give an indication of what was going through the minds of parliamentarians when they discussed those principles, and there will be pre CJA case law to show how these principles developed. Shaibalahmar (talk) 11:41, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you suggesting the case law which developed the principle be placed in the article? -- Ratio: Decidendi  · [ Talk ] 13:23, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I am suggesting the sections I mentioned earlier be removed and be replaced by a shorter section relating the development of the sentencing principles through a summary of the case law. This will be more relevant to the topic - mention Kant to a sentencer and they will give you a blank stare :) Shaibalahmar (talk) 13:29, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok I support shortening the aims section and moving material to "The Theory of Sentencing in Criminal Courts". However, shouldn't the title of the article mention England and Wales, how about, "Aims of sentencing in England and Wales" or "Theories of criminal sentencing in England and Wales". What do you think? -- Ratio: Decidendi  · [ Talk ] 16:46, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that "Theories of criminal sentencing in England and Wales" would be fine, thanks. Shaibalahmar (talk) 17:10, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I have created Theories of criminal sentencing in England and Wales and copied the sentencing aims section from Sentencing in England and Wales. The new article will need a lead, expansion, sourcing and clearing up. You can now condense and refine the Aims of sentencing section in Sentencing in England and Wales as you have suggested. -- Ratio: Decidendi   · [ Talk ] 17:49, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Excellent. I am going to develop something offline so you might not see any changes from me for a day or so. Cheers Shaibalahmar (talk) 18:09, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for the help,I look forward to seeing your edits.-- Ratio: Decidendi  · [ Talk ] 18:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Copyright violations
A great deal of this article appears to consist of unattributed cut and pastes from other sources, mainly other Wikipedia articles. May I remind editors of this article that whilst all Wikipedia content is licensed CC-By_SA, the terms of that license require attribution otherwise it must be considered to be a copyright violation. I would expect as editors interested in legal matters that you will understand the urgency of addressing the situation and equally understand why, if this is not addressed immediately, the article will be removed. Kind regards, nancy  05:28, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

I have also raised this issue directly with Ratio Decidendi as the person responsible for introducing the copyright violations. nancy 08:10, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I am ploughing through the article fixing it as I go so would obliged if you could hold fire for a while. Shaibalahmar (talk) 10:37, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Huntley Photograph
I suggest that this photo is deleted because I don't think it is appropriate (or revelant) to a serious article about sentencing in England and Wales. Does anyone else have a view? Shaibalahmar (talk) 06:15, 22 August 2011 (UTC)