Talk:Sequential hermaphroditism

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2019 and 17 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RobertDRosner, Callystahansen. Peer reviewers: Lemieuxa, Albrechtb, Haroraul.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 22 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Chaigood. Peer reviewers: Pprosnitz, Bbyric.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Making Changes
I am editing this article as a project for a Biology of Sex & Gender university course.--RobertDRosner (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2019 (UTC)RobertDRosner

Missing information
This article should include a section on Epiactis prolifera - which is a species that changes sex from female to hermaphrodite at a certain age. This is a third type, which differs from male-to-female and female-to-male sequential hermaphroditism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RenierKriek (talk • contribs) 05:56, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Added just a mention of Protogynous hermaphroditism, but there is more work needed here. That phenomenon is also quite common in fish, so the sources that say that Epiactis prolifera may be unique among animals are either wrong, or are using some restricted meaning. See Blackeye goby. About other material that is missing, this article: says "Protogynous species may show monandry, in which all males are termed secondary males, and derive from functional females, or diandry, in which there are two types of males. Primary males are males at the first sexual maturation, while secondary males arise from a sex change in functional females. A similar dichotomy has been recorded in protandrous species and the corresponding terms are monogyny with secondary females only, and digyny with both primary and secondary females (Reinboth 1967a; Chan and Yeung 1983)." Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:29, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Needs readability overhaul
The "ultimate causes" badly needs to be rewritten for clarity. I admit this is not my field, but I'm struggling to follow it. Suggest reading it aloud. 15:44, 3 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.209.27.29 (talk)

Attention needed
This article would benefit from being divided into sections (see Guide to layout). Let me add that I am delighted to come across an article that actually cites its sources (!); however, it could be greatly improved by using footnotes as per Footnotes. -,-~ R 'lyeh R isin g  ~-,- 17:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You are right. Needs to be wikified. I'll see what I can do - Marshman 20:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Page moved to "Sequential hermaphroditism" per style conventions. -- Hadal (talk) 07:21, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Dichogamy → Sequential Hermaphroditism –Dichogamy is term used mainly in botany, this article covers both zoology and botany. Since the term Sequential hermaphroditism refers to both plants and animals changing the title from dichogamy to sequential hermaphroditism is reasonable. Right now when you search for this term, one is referred to the hermaphrodite wikipedia page, which only briefly talks about this topicCascade22 (talk) 15:30, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks a good proposal; but shouldn't it be with a small "h"?--Kotniski (talk) 11:03, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * you are right about the small "h" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.89.65.187 (talk) 19:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Support move to sequential hermaphroditism with a small h. The lead also needs a refactor to comply with MOS:LEAD regardless of whether or not the move goes ahead. Andrewa (talk) 17:33, 7 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Confusion
If someone asks me define protogynous condition then what should I explain protogyny or protogynous hermaphrodism?? Please help me I'm in serious need Ankit2299 (talk) 19:02, 13 December 2015 (UTC) Ankit2299 (talk) 19:02, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

peer review
1) Lead section was fairly clear, informative off the bat. Botany section was shorter in lead, may be important to mention the function of a male/ female flower. Important to clearly mention advantages of both zoology and botany in greater detail in lead, as these are sections on their own later on. 2) Structure of article was organized well. I would break up botany section more. 3) Balancing act - similar to structure, the botany section needs to be broken up. The zoology section has a greater amount, having subheadings of examples, ultimate causes, proximate causes, and consequences. I would add similar sections to the botany section. 4) Neutral content - not a controversial article, did not attempt to persuade readers in any particular direction. Very neutral content. 5) sources looked pretty good. Some were older, dating back to the 80s. If this is still relevant then keep them, however make sure they all still argue relevant content. Was unsure if source 76 was from a reliable source, could not click on link to tell. 6) Big picture - overall very interesting article. Some sentences are vague, for example, the section stating "protogynous have internal triggers", could mention what these are to strengthen article. Similar in other places, it would add a lot to article if there was more process behind how these things happen. Lastly, make sure definitions are being given when necessary, especially in Botany section, as many readers may not have prior knowledge. Albrechtb (talk) 03:46, 8 April 2019 (UTC)AlbrechtbB — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrechtb (talk • contribs) 03:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Raul's Peer Review
Sequential hermaphroditism: The importance of this topic is present. It talks about the different types of changes after first describing what sequential hermaphroditism is. The last sentence of the last paragraph was a little confusing; it could be made more clear by elaborating and perhaps making that one sentence into two. "...social structure or the achievement of a certain age or size" why is this important? what does it mean for the organism? -> In animals, What do you mean by switch between functional male to functional female? little confusing there. last sentence: "...during their last life stage", what other stages are there? Why only the last stage? Nice job on describing/distinguishing protandry, protogyny, etc. -> In plants, Good job describing + distinguishing protogynous/protandrous. The last sentence: maybe not your main focus but briefly describe "pollen-pistil interference" (link to inbreeding, maybe link to pollen-pistil interference?) The structure/organization of your content makes sense. It is nicely divided into two main categories (zoology + botany) and then organized/divided again into the main things that will be discussed for each (zoology: protandry, protogyny, etc., botany: flowering plants). In the lead section, it also organizes it in a more general but similar way as the content itself. (sequential hermaphroditism, animals, and plants). This order helps me understand what exactly this sequential hermaphroditism is and the differences between plants and animals. -> Protandry + Protogyny Nice description of both and good on providing examples. The examples provided are all backed up with sources/includes a link to each organism that uses either one of these forms of hermaphroditism. Nice addition of pictures to the organisms used in examples/ other examples are included along with links + sources incase the reader would like to learn about other organisms that express hermaphroditism (whether it's Protandry or Protogyny), good! ->Causes Nicely divided into the two causes of hermaphroditism (ultimate causes, proximate causes). Also includes genetic consequences and exactly what this means and does for the organism. Divided again for ultimate causes (describes/distinguishes size-advantage model + protection against inbreeding). Informative not persuasive into believing one of these causes is better than the other. ->Botany Good addition of what was thought to be a mechanism for reducing inbreeding and what is now thought to be reducing inbreeding (self-compatible). Also provides examples (along with sources) of plant species that experience either protogyny or protandry. The sources that are used do not persuade reader to believe on form of hermaphroditism is better or is an advantage than the other. The information is provided to understand the differences between these two; it is more informational (backed up with example organisms) to help reader understand what it is and how it works. Maybe get rid of the See also section? Includes plant sexuality + link and sequential hermaphrodite section in Hermaphrodite +link--why is this here? importance of this being here? why not discussed more? The references provided are good, heavily rely on journal articles. Total of 81 sources (good!), they are organized by the way they are used throughout the article--for the most part--(1 being towards the beginning of the wiki page and 81 being the last source they cite which is towards the end of the wiki article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haroraul (talk • contribs) 19:19, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Citation needed
"female to hermaphrodite (protogynous hermaphroditism), and male to hermaphrodite (protandrous hermaphroditism)"

The referenced articles here and later here only refer to them as protogynous meaning first-female later changing to male, and protandrous meaning first-male later changing to female. This is also in line and thus conflicting with the later mention:

"Protogynous hermaphrodites are animals that are born female and at some point in their lifespan change sex to male."

As well as the entire Protogynous examples section.

The wording as-is makes it sound as if protogynous hermaphroditism are organisms that start as female then change to hermaphrodite, and protandrous hermaphroditism as male organisms that change to hermaphrodites.

In fact, with this citation, namely "Sequential hermaphrodites begin life as one sex, changing sometime later to the other, and include species capable of protandrous (male-to-female), protogynous (female-to-male), or serial (bidirectional) sex change" I'd suggest striking the aforementioned line entirely as it is wholly inaccurate.

I'll go ahead and do this for the reason mentioned. TiffyWiki (talk) 20:38, 5 April 2022 (UTC)