Talk:Sergey Kara-Murza

Relation to golden billion
Paging @SergeyKurdakov, Would you mind helping out with reviewing the neutrality on this one? I noticed a distinct lack of critical viewpoints. Heyallkatehere (talk) 01:40, 3 March 2024 (UTC)


 * ok start reading it SergeyKurdakov (talk) 05:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Another feature you might consider, that almost all Russian public information is now under state pressure, as I noted - most older critical publications just have gone to nowhere and any researches inside Russia which question state sponsored ideas have very difficult prospects. So sources I cited are few among many others which prize Sergey Kara Murza as 'philosopher and sociologist', I do not have answer how to deal with the situation. In case current situation keeps for another 10 years, there will not be any reliable sources from Russia, and because after fall of USSR there are quite a few western researches who deal with russian issues, most Russia related articles will be just in poor state. Russian related article about Sergey Kara Murza though, contains the same references to Sergey Kara Murza being a major inspiration for current russia sponsored state ideology, and that ideology is not based on recognized philosophers writings (however strange they were), but rather on mystical stories of various kind, so the same 'translate from russian article' badge might be of some help if you are still unsure about my references SergeyKurdakov (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * here what can be said:
 * first:
 * Sergey Kara Murza could be called philosopher and sociologist (he has a post at the Moscow State University), but he was always active a propaganda publicist and since 2000s he collaborates with Kremlin administration as a propagandist (translated paragraph "Kara-Murza was invited by the Russian Presidential Administration to give special lectures to Russian students. As a political scientist, he spoke at a rally of the pro-government youth movement “Nashi” on Lake Seliger.")
 * (translation of related paragraph "The presidential administration invited him to give special lectures at the pro-Putin youth organization “Nashi”")
 * and is called a main source for crude propaganda now ( translation of main point "Putinism relies on the books of Nikolai Starikov and Sergei Kara-Murza, that is, on stream products of political mythology.")
 * the same is in English reference (Putinism relies on books by Nikolay Starikov and Sergey Kara-Murza, i.e., the stream products of political mythology. The Kremlin is firmly based on the foreign and domestic policy textbooks for the Higher School of the KGB (now the FSB), and then inscribes whatever fits into its scheme. All forms of ‘complicated and excessive patriotism’ Putin keeps at hand, scoffs, and considers entirely from the perspective of ‘recruitment’. [...] Very crude myths drive large contingents. These are the very ones that constitute the intellectual source of Putinism. This must be remembered when we read about the influence of Alexander Zinoviev or Nikolay Berdyaev, Georgy Shchedrovitsky or Lev Gumilev. Otherwise, both Russian intellectual history and the description of the Kremlin ‘myth machine' will be distorted.)
 * so the omission here is that Sergey Kara Murza is a mainstream propagandist for Putin regime
 * second: while it's true that Sergey Kara Murza is a relative of Vladimir A. Kara-Murza and Vladimir V. Kara-Murza, a major point is missing - is that both Vladimir A. Kara-Murza and Vladimir V. Kara-Murza have quite different set of views and due to that there was a family conflict: namely entire extended family visited Sergey Kara Murza and asked to stop propanda efforts, but did not end in conflict resolution (no direct references for now - but well known family tragedy in Russia), at least for reference it was possible to mention that his relatives have opposing views.
 * third: popularity of 'golden billion' is rather invention of early writers of wiki pages about the Golden billion in both russian and english. Those who support Sergey Kara Murza claim that it's popular (it was at some point in 90s as there was a flood of publications, but since then the rate of mentions diminished and since mid 2000s is used primarily by kremlin propaganda sources). Still when Sergey Kara Murza was invited by Kremlin to deliver lectures he was rather not a major lecturer, the main one was Andrei Parshev, and leaders of various pro-kremlin movements would always call Andrei Parshev as a main ideologist for them (it's difficult to find references as they were in defunct social networks). But the golden billion is a main talking point of current Russian political elites since 2021, such as Sergey Lavrov, Vladimir Putin (could be confirmed by google search "Lavrov Golden Billion", "Putin Golden billion") etc. So it is popular, but not in population, but in propaganda outlets.
 * if there is need for additional sources to support my review (specific points) I'd do more detailed search as the theories of Sergey Kara Murza are rather old, were not reviewed by major sources (books, scientific articles), but by various social media sources and small web sites, which are now either defunct or unaccessible. SergeyKurdakov (talk) 07:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * another link where Sergey Kara Murza is called main propagandist https://nvo.ng.ru/stsenarii/2020-09-21/9_7969_power.html "One of the main propagandists of the post-USSR, Sergei Kara-Murza, once even came to the conclusion that this was almost the main reason for the collapse of the USSR." SergeyKurdakov (talk) 16:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * and some clarification on link "Trojan horse in the communist movement(rus)" - Sergey Kara Murza posing as being on the left mostly destroyed legacy communist party along with efforts to destroy democratic opponents. that's why he is a propagandist - because he used rhetoric to crash Kremlin opponents, if they are communists or democrats - was not important point, the main point was that they are Kremlin opponents and all his rhetorical skills were used to this end SergeyKurdakov (talk) 17:59, 3 March 2024 (UTC)