Talk:Shang Yang

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 May 2020 and 3 July 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kevin Tian06.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2020 and 6 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dyy122dyy.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
Quote from the page: "The military was also divided into twenty parts". I am wondering what it may refer to. Would it be 20 regiments, divisions or 20 military ranks and peerages? kt2 02:09, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * No idea. The character used was &#31561;. Pratyeka 05:31, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Would you mind paste the corresponding text here so I would translate it? kt2 21:52, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * &#25226;&#20891;&#21151;&#20998;&#20026;&#20108;&#21313;&#31561; Pratyeka 23:40, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * &#31561; seems to mean rank, grade or class .. so I think the 'military ranks' translation is accurate. I'll change the page. Pratyeka 23:58, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * True, my understanding of the history of this period leads me to better translate &#31561; as honours or peerages of achievement on battlefield.

Actually, 商鞅 is written Shang Yang in both Pinyin and Wade Giles romanizations. He is also known as 公孫鞅 which is written Gongsun Yang in Pinyin and Kung-sun Yang in Wade Giles. 155.97.237.10 04:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Quote from the page:
 * "Before Shang's arrival in 361 BC, Qin was a backwards state. The vast majority of his reforms were taken from policies instituted elsewhere, such as from Wu Qi of Chu and Han Feizi of Wei; however, Shang's reforms were more thorough and extreme than those of other states."

Shang Yang died in 338 BC, decades before Han Fei (ca. 280 - 233 BC) was born. It was Li Si who was Qin's prime minister when Han Fei lived and wrote. -- Anthee (talk) 23:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Shang
It is a bad way to refer Shang Yang as Shang. His surname was Gongsun, not Shang. It is not resonable to refer ancient Chinese names by modern English style.--刻意(Kèyì) 19:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Acknowledged.FourLights (talk) 21:53, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Is this grounds for turning this into a disambiguation page? (There are a couple more Shangs described at the top of the page.)

Why is this Gongsun even called Shang? I can't find any information about that.

I'm trying to differentiate this Gongsun Yan from another Warring States Qin premier and Wei strategist, who is described here and here SSBDelphiki (talk) 17:33, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

He is called Shang Yang because he was given a land title. I called him Gongsun throughout the page, but someone changed it back. He is called Shang Yang in most documents, but I understand the point Kèyì makes and consider it legimate.FourLights (talk) 01:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Calling him "Gongsun" is a little confusing because that was a fairly common surname. (It means "Ducal Grandson," in other words, anyone whose grandfather was a territorial lord.) If you want to say "Gongsun," I'd probably just go with "Gongsun Yang." He's most commonly called "Shang Yang" (which really means Yang of Shang) or "Lord Shang" in scholarly literature.--74.103.157.244 (talk) 08:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Alright, I'll change the page accordingly.FourLights (talk) 22:33, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


 * From the text: “With the support of Duke Xiao of Qin, Yang left his lowly position in Wei to become the chief adviser in Qin.”
 * Do we know what his official title was? Also, the article seems to imply that he carried out these reforms apparently on his own authority – can that really be the case? Tjobrien.seoul (talk) 18:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Jurist?
Where has Shang Yang or any of them ever been called a Jurist after the 1920s? Feng Youlan even makes a specific critique against it - in the year 1948.FourLights (talk) 11:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)