Talk:Shepherd's axe

Usage and weapon
I think it is more a multiple-use walking stick than a weapon. Valaška size is always so it can be used as a walking stick, the bottom has metal butt and the top "axe" is shaped like a handle. I had neven seen Valaška with a sharp edge.


 * That is because Valaška is no longer used as a weapon. Decorative types of valaškas do not have sharp edges for purpose. In rural parts of Slovakia, people may have some original inherited valaškas. Originally, it used to be a tool more than a weapon, which is why it has a long shaft with metal butt - to provide a stick. Although I am unsure, whether the mettal butt is not a todays addon. jsimlo 15:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Image
I consider this picture useful, http://www.slovakfolkart.sk/images/P1010041.jpg, comes from the Slovak wiki, but i don't know how to put it here. Ing_SvK

This is a sketch from the Hungarian treasures found from IX-th century: http://www.bozotmives.hu/fckeditor/cikk_kepek/image/felszerelesek/fokos/fokos_1resz/fokos_4abra.png Taken by Kovács László. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.109.237 (talk) 14:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Multi-culture subject
Valaška is not only a Slovak phenomenon, this is probably traditional in at least northen Carpathian Mountains (Slovakia, Hungaria, Poland, Moravia), maybe in all Carpathian Mountains, because the Czech/Slovak name "valaška" suggest the origin from Wallachia. Some centuries ago shepherds from Romanian Wallachia came to northern part of Carpathian Mountains and they came with their own culture. The valaška is not only in Slovakia, but also in Moravian Wallachia (see picture there) and in Poland (Polish part of Carpathian Mnt.), where is known as pl:ciupaga (see picture there). Somebody also mentioned Hungary and hu:fokos (see picture) --Luděk 04:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thin axes were used from the time of Scythians. There's no evidence that this type of axe is of Wallahian origin. Same type of weapon in Ukrainian Carpathians called topirets, bartka or kelef(hammer+spike instead of blade). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.121.86 (talk) 05:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Slovak, Polish, Hungarian
Please, note that Valaška, Ciupaga and Fokos are the same thing, which is part of culture of all three nations. Therefore there may be only one main article about this subject. Reverting and fighting over this article is not going to change the history, nor it shall trully satisfy needs for redemption. Therefore, please, reconsider twice, before doing changes to this article. Ask yourself, whether your edits are NPOV and whether they are not driven by your nationality. Please, do not edit controverial articles, if you are unable to adhere to the wikipedia rules. Thank you. Do not drive it please (talk) 11:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I tried to rewrite the article to be more of a structural work and to provide more space for all three nations involved to extend info about their parts, without usurping inadvertently the entire article. I hope I did not leave out any significancy for any of the involved nations. If so, please, correct it. Do not drive it please (talk) 13:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Fokos
I find Valaška and Hungarian "fokos" very similar to each other, in shape, usage and historical/cultural appearances as well. In historical references I found that in periods of medieval ages use of "fokos" by peasant class was banned by landlords so it had to be concealed: peasants, robbers etc. used the handle as a walking stick, and they carried the head in pockets or bags but if needed, they could easily fix it on the handle and use the weapon. Any references for the same use in Slovakia? And did Hungarians take the idea of Valaška sometime in the past (a copy) or these type of handy tools were invented separatedly?

Hungarians had fokos by the time they got in the Carpathian Basin (IX-th century), as the treasures from the burial sites shows. If not separately invented, maybe from same origins (Scytians, or Avars), or just reversed: the valaška was copied from the fokos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.109.237 (talk) 13:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, they are essentially the same, the English phrase used is "shepherd's axe". Squash Racket (talk) 15:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Origin of the fokos/shepherd's axe
One editor doesn't like the Eurasian origin of the shepherd's axe despite a Hungarian Academy of Sciences reference (which he keeps removing). I repeat myself: the shepherd's axe is both a walking stick AND a weapon. The Hungarians brought it in Central Europe in the 9th century (with good reference). Besides that the article needs some templates because it needs additional sources. DF75 (talk) 11:29, 3 July 2019 (UTC)