Talk:Slang/Archive 1

I disagree with statements made in this article

I don't believe "slang" is over-all "aimed at excluding certain people from the conversation." So "slang" is created because "we don't want you to understand us" ? Maybe it is used by some with that intent, but as a general statement i find this inaccurate. "The use of slang is simply a way of circumventing social taboos," says the article. Really ? So all euphemistic speech is "slang" ? Gee, i thought a lot of "slang" was itself taboo.

To me, "slang" is just words invented and picked up and used among those familiar with them. We can identify different collections of words used by different speech communities and observe diverse behaviors in their relationships to their special languages.

Much of this article seems to me pretentiously written and flawed in concept, and the rest is a mish-mosh. I don't know how i would revise or add to it. I'd have to practically rewrite it, and i'm not sure how that would go over.

One problem with attempting to write about "slang" is that there are contradictory notions of what we mean by the word. I think the problem is so bad that the word has become almost useless to communicate any meaning less general than the one i offered in the second paragraph of this comment.

A most telling discrepancy is revealed by the fact that many words in slang dictionaries, and ones labelled "slang" in general dictionaries, have been in common, even general use for many decades with no indication that they will pass from use. How does that jive with the notion of "slang" as an ephemeral language ?

If "slang" is, by definition, ephemeral, then we cannot identify a word as "slang" until it has passed from use. If it hasn't been around long it is a simply a neologism. If it becomes established, or commonly used, then it's not "slang" is it ? So "slang" would refer only to out-of-use words that were never in common use.

So, throw out "ephemeral" for the moment. If we regard a new word as informal, does that make it "slang" ? How few people must use a word for it to be 'slang" ? Is a word perhaps "slang" if *you* don't use it or don't like it ? Does being "taboo" in someone's view make a word "slang" ? How much of it is attitude, and whose attitude ?

This article makes statements about "slang" that can apply to language regarded as standard. Connotations often change with time. If a word's use changes does that make it "slang" ? If someone thinks so, maybe it does. Does it have more to do with whose words they are ?

My view is incompatable with the existing article. Let others explain it their way, and i'll explain it mine. - erlome - 216.19.218.33 10:43, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you. I think the article was misleading, particularly in its implication that slang is simply a matter of neologisms aimed at keeping other people out. I've made several changes. garik 19:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

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"Colloquialism" should not redirect to "slang." There are many colloquialisms that are not slang at all. It's possible to use colloquialisms without using hardly any slang at all.

See this definition of "slang" and this definition of "colloquialism". --Larry Sanger

Well, a colloquialism is a term used chiefly in speech, as opposed to writing. A slang term is used in informal speech or writing... Well... What do we all think? Two articles or one? --Dante Alighieri 12:58 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)

Two articles, definitely. Please see the definitions I linked to above. Here's a good definition of "slang":

1. A kind of language occurring chiefly in casual and playful speech, made up typically of short-lived coinages and figures of speech that are deliberately used in place of standard terms for added raciness, humor, irreverence, or other effect.

Now "colloquialism":

A colloquial expression, not employed in formal discourse or writing.

In short, colloquialisms are simply informal expressions. All slang expressions are colloquialisms (because they're informal) but not all colloquialisms are slang (because not all informal expressions are casual, playful speech. "Yo, bro!" is slang (and therefore a colloquialism). "Dead as a doornail" and "pitch black" and many terms listed in dictionary as "colloq." are colloquialisms that are not slang. --Larry Sanger

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How accurate is it to describe slang as "non-standard usage". Using "cool" as a slang term is probably nearly as common, if not more common, than using it to mean its literal definition. Maybe we need to define precisely what "standard usage" is? Does it mean using it as the dictionary defines it? Perhaps we should say that slang is a "usage other than the dictionary definition(s)"... more elegantly worded, of course. ;) --Dante Alighieri 12:43 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)

Yeah this has made me think. The British use of fag is more colloquial than slang. Everybody uses the term.

That's right. Eton College banned fagging. Do you think gay rights activists will proteste?

'Standard' is not a matter of frequency. Nor does it have much to do with dictionaries - after all, a good dictionary should list slang terms. 'Standard' is a matter of perception, normally deriving from what you're taught on school and what respected figures and institutions use. garik 19:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The link to the Australian slang site is broken. What should be done about it?

"Slang is often used to with regard to semi-taboo subjects, such as

- Teabagging has become a popular shaming pass-time in western cultures - And your mom - And Ball Hair" I assume this is vandalism. Were items in the list replaced, or were these just added? I didn't know if I should just delete them. -I think some slang could be helpful for young minds to express themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also disagree with this restrictive definition. Slang is merely a word cut up and used by individuals to supervent the use of the entire word and or it may be a word to replace an unacceptable word in a coversations. ie.. dang it.. may also meand damn it, depending on the user, and so forth. So slang has an ifinate number of words that is growing daily among peoples of different languages.

Does anyone who is more of an expert on slang know if there is any street meaning to the phrase "that's it"? Have been hearing a lot lately.

"That's it" is denoted as "That is it" meaning you have the right one or it is to mean your right. It is not to difficult to comprehend once you understand th meaning of

" 's "  which is to mean "is". (blhamiltonsr@netzero.com  Grad. KSU English)

The word slang is of Gypsy Origin

• The word "slang" as Romani in origin --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Robbyfoxxxx (talk • contribs) .

But the article linked to suggests it probably isn't...

This [online etymology dictionary] quotes the OED against a Scandinavian origin. It doesn't mention gypsies though. garik 23:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

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That etymology site is not very sure of the origin. I heard slang is short for Secret LANGuage. Seems very reasonable to me. I heard this on meet the ancestors BBC1 06/09/2006. I was wondering if anyone has any better reference for the origin.

Alan Evans 21:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

SLANG computer language

SLANG is also the name of a proprietary computer script language similar to C/C++ used by the Wall Street firm Goldman Sachs primarily for job scheduling scripts. I've removed the above. It has no place in this article, which is about the linguistic phenomenon of slang. If anyone cares to create a disambiguation page, we could put something on that about SLANG, I suppose. garik 23:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Continued where Garik left off (but sorry I can't write the article). See the disambig page (that now seems to have existed for a short while). 217.229.36.25 00:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Wiktionary project on slang terms

Somewhere in Wikipedia it said there was such a project but I searched my eyes out for it (The reference was in the deletion discussion for Bunny Boiler.) The search engines in Wiki* didn't help. Flame me for the way I did this to get your attention for this to-do issue if you like, but I did do my research (inasmuch as I could spend time on it, or really some more) and just couldn't find a better way to create a token pointer to what seems to be really missing - as I found when I (initially) was looking for it. If you're a more valuable contributor to WP, you will know better how to do it (and maybe help). This may be removed after help is done. HTH something. 217.229.36.25 00:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

error on the page?

this didnt make sense to me "formal mainstream formal speech" should be changed to "formal mainstream speech" like the similar phrase before it.

Opposition regarding documenting slangs

There is a natural opposition from certain segments of the society, regarding documenting slang in any culture. Those who believe that the purpose of the slang is to obscure the meaning of spoken or written language - so that an ‘outsider’ who only knows the literal meanings of the words cannot comprehend what is being said – are one segment whom oppose to documenting a taxonomy of slang. The initial vandalism which we experienced on Sinhala Slang page has the signs of this thinking. There were people who were saying that it is a foolish thing to document the slang and make them accessible to ‘outsiders’. In my opinion, this is a segregation ('us' and 'them') mindset. Ritigala Jayasena 07:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Well yes, that is rather silly. garik 09:22, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

This page is wrong... really wrong

The person who wrote it, only refers to slang how some people use it these days but the real reason for slang has nothing to do with people trying to be cool or gangstas or any of that silliness. Slang most often means a variation or shortening of a word so that it is easier to say and understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megagents (talk • contribs) 13:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Origins

I believe that slang came from the English sailors in London (called cockney rhyming) the word slang basicly means 'secret language' they used slang in order to confuse the foreign traders whilst the two Englishman understood each other but the foreigner thinks that they are talking complete nonsense —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.209.195 (talk) 18:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC) that would be talking in code, such as pig latin or Jibberish... Slang is simply making words shorter or adding to words together as one to make talking a little easier. I do it all the time... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.134.90 (talk) 18:01, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

This page sucks

It really does. It's crying out for a linguist or two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.136.84.233 (talk) 05:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

i will have to dis-agree with you because slang is a very improtant aspspect of this day and age

This is not about saying “slang is irrelevant” but at the contrary “this article is simplistic and partially wrong”, as anyone with some sociolinguistics knowledge will feel, and it should be rewritten because language is an important thing. Cordially, w:fr:User:Leafcat at 05:39, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Watch your language

Is there no Language project? I'm shocked... TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 05:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Found it... TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 05:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for lists of slang

List of slang terms for "penis"

Does anybody else think that's a good idea? I was surprised not to find one. Or maybe a list of slang terms for human genitalia, male and female both, because there probably aren't enough terms for vagina, clitoris, etc. to warrant a whole article. I'm not a registered user, and I don't know how to create pages, or else I would start the stub myself. --63.25.101.172 (talk) 10:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

How about a list of Texas and/or Southern U.S. slang?

If it exists, I couldn't find it. Seems like it might be a good idea, no? --63.25.101.172 (talk) 10:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

No. Lists are the bane of Wikipedia. Some of them may be useful, but only when they're an article in their own right, and can justify themselves. On pages like this they add nothing but clutter. Why, after all, have a list of Texan slang especially? Why not New Dehli slang while we're at it? Or a list of all the different cockney rhyming slang terms people can think of? Believe me, lists like this are best steered well clear of. garik (talk) 16:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

External Links

Why does it say 'Unreliable' or 'Untrustworthy' about some sites? where is the neutrality?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.146.26 (talk) 17:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Cab Sav

Article states:

Among wine connoisseurs, Cabernet Sauvignon might be known as "Cab Sav"

I would dispute the assertion that "Cab Sav" is wine connoisseur jargon. I like wine, but I would never pretend to be worthy of the title of a "connoisseur", and yet I quite commonly will say "Cab Sav". It's scarcely even slang; I talk that way to my parents. Its just a common abbreviation of spoken English, at least here in Australia. Also, the modal verb "might be" seems excessively weaselish -- either "wine connoisseurs" call it that or they don't, surely its not so difficult to find out that we don't actually know? --SJK (talk) 01:56, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Croft specifically mentions wine conoisseurs (in fact, he specifically mentions Californian wine conoisseurs). The point is not that they're the only people who use the abbreviation, or even that this is wine conoisseur jargon — he doesn't say that, and I'm not sure the article did; they're just one example of a group who refer to cabernet sauvignon frequently enough that they abbreviate it to cab sav. It doesn't surprise me that the abbreviation is also common among Australians who like wine, but that doesn't speak against the example in the article. And the fact that you talk that way to your parents has nothing to do with "cab sav" being slang or not; I'd guess that most people use terms in conversation with their parents that can be considered slang. Also bear in mind that a word doesn't have to be considered slang everywhere it's used — even if it were considered standard English in Australia, it could still be considered slang in other parts of the English-speaking world. I see your point about "might be" and have changed it. But I didn't read it as suggesting uncertainty about whether or not these wine conoisseurs actually use the phrase; just that on a given occasion, they might use the term, while on others they might not (compare: "While Englishmen are restricted to trousers at formal events, a Scotsman might choose to turn up at a wedding in a kilt"; the point is not that we don't know whether Scotsmen wear kilts or not, just that not all of them do, and those that do may not do so on all occasions). garik (talk) 13:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

This info is all WRONG!

It only mentions American slang and it doesn't even tell us what slang is. Lots of people think that only gangstas use it but even whole countries have slang. It was created before gangstas were even thought of for goodness sake! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willy Sillybones (talk • contribs) 22:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Searching for American Slang leads to this page

There's now an album by the Gaslight Anthem called American Slang, I blieve typing the phrase into the search should lead there.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.244.185 (talk • contribs)

What you need to do is create an article called American Slang (Album) and put information about the album there. Then we can create a disambiguation page that links to both that article and this one. A few points to help you out: first, you're recommended to create an account. Second, please read these pages before editing: WP:5P, WP:CITE, WP:TALK. As you'll notice from the third, you should add new comments to the end of talk pages, not the beginning. You should also sign your posts by adding four tildes (~~~~) after them. Thanks! garik (talk) 11:59, 27 April 2010 (UTC)