Talk:Sleep Dirt

Very erroneous post about the Lather episode

Need to have verification of exactly what tapes FZ delivered to Warner Bros in 1976. His contract called for him to deliver 4 albums. He has claimed that what he actually delivered were Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites and Zappa in New York (2 LP's) for a total of 5 discs worth of material. There is no proof that FZ ever offered Lather to Warner. And besides that was only 1 album of 4 discs. Lather would not have fulfilled the contractual requirements. Thought both sets have unique material he actually created 4 discs out of 5, not the other way around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.225.244.228 (talk) 03:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Wrong, big time. Zappa himself has confirmed he delivered Låther (pronounced leather) in interviews many times. One detailed account appeared in a 1978 issue of Record Review. He also went on the air (radio) and played the entire Låther album 'for free' because he was upset with WB. To allow those whose tapes had run out while taping, he and the radio host re-broadcast the entire thing a couple of weeks later. NOTE: FZ delivered the Låther album; it was Warners that issued the tracks as Zappa in New York (which FZ had no objections about the title for this one), Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt and Orchestral Favorites (all of these FZ strongly objected to their titles - Frank: "If you saw an album with the title 'Sleep Dirt' on it, you probably wouldn't want to buy it.")HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:35, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Wrong again

Sorry, but wrong again. BTW, anyone can read The Record Review interviews with Zappa here: https://www.afka.net/Mags/Record_Review.htm#1979-04

If you read the interviews you will know that several claims made in the last post from HammerFilmFan are wrong. Among them is the claim that Zappa objected to the titles "Studio Tan" and "Orchestral Favorites". He only objected to "Sleep Dirt". Zappa's original title to that album was "Hot Rats III".

There are many reasons why Läther did not come first. Here are 7 of the best ones:

(1) Nowhere in any of the 3 Record Review interviews, or anywhere else, does Zappa say that he delivered Läther to Warner. He says that he delivered "4 albums", meaning exactly what he says 4 INDIVIDUAL ALBUMS. The interviewer thinks that Zappa is talking about Läther but Zappa NEVER says this.

(2) A 4-LP box would not have fulfilled the Warner contract because it would be one release, not 4 albums. In fact, Zappa's comments in the interview imply that he only got the idea of releasing a 4-LP box AFTER having an argument with a Warner executive.

(3) The latest material on Läther was recorded in February 1977. The Feb 1977 tracks are included on Läther (completed around August to October) but not on the individual albums because the 4 individual albums had already been completed and delivered in March 1977.

(4) When Gail claimed that Läther came first it was nearly 20 years after the fact. In light of what we already know about her character Gail's comments are not reliable. Crazed fanatics that study the details actually know much more Zappa history than she did.

(5) The Läther tapes were compiled in the summer of 1977, which is AFTER "Zappa in New York" had already been scheduled for release. The ZINY recordings come from December 1976 and overdubs were done in early 1977, thus making the expected release date sometime in the Spring or early Summer of 1977.

(6) The claim that Zappa played Läther on the radio because he was upset with Warner not releasing Läther is not credible. This is because Zappa's troubles with Warner goes back much further than 1977. The problems go back to at least 1976 with the release of "Zoot Alures" and may have started even earlier.

(7) One of the reasons Warner did not release Läther is because Frank didn't submit it to them. Frank submitted the individual albums. That is reason why Warner was able to release them later. And, no there is no reason to suspect that Frank would have submitted both versions. His goal was to get out of the Warner contract ASAP. There is NO reason to think he would have submitted more than the minimum number of recordings required by the contract.75.172.192.233 (talk) 11:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Not authorized?

Once again, I must state, the nature of the Warner Bros. album release not being specifically authorized by Zappa, has nothing to do with the fact that the album lacks the vocal tracks which were later added. Frank Zappa delivered the tapes for the album TO THE LABEL and the tracks did not contain vocals. We need to leave the pertinent line OUT OF this entry. It's simply inaccurate. The album was not "rush released". He delivered the album (along with the masters for Studio Tan and Orchestral Favorites.. must I again remind everyone that the INDIVIDUAL ALBUMS CAME FIRST.. only after the label refused to pay him for the rights to the material did he reformat the material into L(e)ATHER) no later than early 1977, and DiscReet/Warner Bros. did not even release the LP until 1979.

Someone needs to put back the info I added to this article about the individual albums. In spite of what Gail Zappa says, the truth is that the individual albums were created in 1976 BEFORE this material was edited into Leather in 1977. Then after Leather was created Warner suddenly decided to put out the individual albums anyway in 1978 and 1979. Sorry, but Gail does not know nearly as much about FZ history as the most devoted and fanatical fans.

Anon, you are wrong. It was an 8-sided album, then four individual albums. Zappa tried to get out of his contract because they wouldn't release Leather. WTF (talk) 05:32, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

While it is true that Leather was always a 4 album box, the material in Leather was finished and compiled into the individual albums over a year before Leather was created. So technically Gail is right, just mis-informed. Zappa delivered all the 4 individual albums to Warner all at once in an attempt to end his contract. Warner considered much of the material to be below his usual standard and refused to pay out a large lump sum for all of them at once. That is when things began to get really ugly. There are interviews FZ did at the time that confirm all of this. I just don't have them handy right now.

The Individual albums came first

Now that user Wisdomtenacityfocus|WTF has been blocked from editing here the article can be corrected. The truth is that the individual albums came first. Despite the claims of Gail Zappa and WTF there never has been any proof that Läther came before the 4 individual albums or that Zappa ever delivered Läther to Warner.75.172.192.233 (talk) 11:54, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Dweezil has also stated in interviews that this issue changed the way all record contracts are written. These days an artist can't deliver all of the albums of their contract at once, as FZ tried to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.225.244.228 (talk) 03:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

No, it was a box-set (with artwork) entitled Låther - WB assembled the tapes (which Zappa had to turn over to them via a legal order) into the various albums, and some genius at the record company gave them the individual titles. Btw, as far as dates and so on, many tracks (incomplete or totally redone later) date from much earlier on these records - Studio Tan's 'Gregory Peccary' was written after Zappa was pushed off the stage in London in 1971 while recup'ing in a wheelchair. HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:46, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Napoleon Murphy Brock did not perform on this album. Manufactured to Comply 02:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

double-bass?

The Personnel section lists no less than three bass guitar players but on some of the tracks double bass is played - how about the double bass solo on the last track? Any of you guys know who played double bass on the album? Kiujm (talk) 00:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

formatted this rather short Talk Page

Organized it a bit.HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)