Talk:Social anxiety/Archive 1

Disputed
Social anxiety is just another term for Social phobia. Having an article on social anxiety apart from social phobia makes about as much sense as one on weather anxiety for people who dislike being rained on or driving in snow. The article doesn't even make good sense. The first sentence describes Social phobia for example. It calls shyness and timidness social anxieties when in fact they're personality traits.Thunder2k (talk) 22:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is thoroughly based on references. Your criticism is invalid. The first sentence does not describe social phobia. If you cannot see the difference between fear and phobia, then you probably must support your opinions by references to respectable sources. Pleas explain why social anxiety is not personality trait. Mukadderat (talk) 02:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I did not add anything of my head: The original article already indicated clear distinction: it said: "the remainder of this article concerns the diagnosis of social anxiety disorder (social phobia) rather than social anxiety in general" (emphasis mine). Mukadderat (talk) 03:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * First I split the original text in two already separated topics
 * Then I updated the smaller article with references from expert books.
 * That's where the mistake is being made. There is no social anxiety in general that is different from social anxiety disorder.


 * The references cited are two old, obscure books.
 * It says that "A psychopathological form of social anxiety is called "social anxiety disorder" or social phobia" but almost everyone with social phobia calls it social anxiety. Those two terms are rarely used except in clinical settings. This article just confuses people. Thunder2k (talk) 01:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I have read the social anxiety page, read much of the social phobia page, and read this dispute twice, and I DO NOT see why the pages are separate. To start with, each page mentions the other in its first sentence. Also, neither explains why there is a distinction. Social Anxiety also lists its diagnosis criteria but discusses almost nothing else while Social Phobia seems to discuss everything but the criteria. It seems like they complement each other. They certainly, as they are written now, should not be separate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.250.225.138 (talk) 01:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The article was incorrectly replaced with content related to social anxiety disorder. Reverted. Mukadderat (talk) 17:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This article is still disputed. Thunder2k (talk) 21:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with having this social anxiety article, with a subsection on the newer narrower concept of the phobia/disorder (linking off to the in-depth article on that concept). It's not clear-cut, but no different to having anxiety and anxiety disorder - it just comes from the DSM trying to cut everything in two rather than have a single range. EverSince (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This has nothing to do with DSM. This topic is one of very huge number of topics on subjects which manifestation vary over a continuous range. While the extremities are clearly identified as such, the borderline cases is tifficult to assign to "left or right end". But it is in human nature of cognition to impose some kind of classification even on apparently unclassifiable issues: how you distinquish  big from huge and from enormous?
 * We have articles midget and giant, while by the logic of Thunder2k we should have a single one, human. Mukadderat (talk) 16:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it doesn't matter but there are classification systems in psychiatry and psychology that don't try to split these psychological variables into normal vs disordered, and in fact the DSM-IV acknowledges that such schemes can have advantages but can be more complicated to implement clinically or for insurance purposes etc - though it is moving towards continuum models for some diagnoses in V. But anyway the concept of a social phobia/disorder with set criteria distinguishing it from just high social anxiety was adopted and popularised by the DSM. EverSince (talk) 17:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I propose a Disambiguation page although I do not know how to make one. Also this article is still disputed, please do not remove the notice until resolved. Thunder2k (talk) 14:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It wasn't me who removed your dispute tag, but there are now reliable sources showing that this term is used to refer to the whole range from everyday low to unusually high social anxiety, while the authority in the clinical diagnosis, the DSM, only refers to it using the phobia/disorder terms. Can you explain how you are disputing these sources? (accepted that unofficially many people do use the terms in different way, interchangeably). EverSince (talk) 10:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed the fact tags from the intro because the statements are cited within the article - the intro is only summarising that. A disambiguation page is just another page, the question if we wanted one would be what to call it other than Social Anxiety... EverSince (talk) 10:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Resources Section
Hello, I have been the guy that has been posting links to my social anxiety chat room (www.socialanxietysupportchat.com) in the external links section. I realize that just posting the links without clearing it here first was the wrong way to go about things, so I apologize for that, I haven't ever edited a wiki page before. I want to plead my case though to have a resources section where links to chatrooms, discussion boards and myspace style sites for social anxiety can be posted. I think as a page involved in the wikipsychology project, it is important to include these links which will allow those afflicted to meet other similarly afflicted people to discuss experiences and gain further knowledge on the subject at hand. All of the sites that I'm thinking of are non profit and exist solely for the purpose of benefitting those with social anxiety / social phobia. You have to remember that this page is the first page that comes up on Google when people search for social anxiety / social phobia, so it is going to reach a lot of people so I think it's important to have this information available. Here are some of the sites I'm thinking of:

www.socialanxietysupportchat.com - this is my chat site. www.sahideout.com - this is another SA chat site. www.socialphobiaworld.com - a social anxiety / social phobia message board with over 10,000 users. www.anxietytribe.com - a myspace style profile site for those that suffer with anxiety disorders.

I want to hear peoples feedback on this, so please tell me what you think. Feel free to send me a private message to my talk page. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverafan42 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a web directory. Wikipedia pages need article content. You are welcome to add / improve article texts supporting you edits with citations of valid references from reliable sources. Mukadderat (talk) 16:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That sounded like no apology. It reads like just another big fat plug. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.145.128 (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a Gray Area
There is a gray area where social anxiety is neither just normal, nor entirely a disorder. Therfore this article has a place, but should also be linked to the Wikipedia article on social anxiety disorder.

69.171.160.198 (talk) 01:45, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate
Once again this page has become a description of Social Anxiety Disorder. This entire article should be removed, it only causes confusion. Thunder2k (talk) 09:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree as this page doesn't really conform to clinical view on social anxiety which can also be called social phobia. It's only a page about "normal" anxiety in a social situation. It's not a clinical area of interest and can't be said to have any value nor reason to exist on a page. If people feel the need to have it explained it should be done on the page about anxiety itself. What people are seeking when they look up social anxiety is information about the disorder, not info about less intense anxiety in social situation. So again, this page has no value and simply confuses the issue. And seeing as a good portion of it goes to explaining the DSM-IV disorder it simply adds to the reason of being useless and confusing. I recommend removal and that this page forwards to the disorder page.(Skaz (talk) 03:04, 28 March 2009 (UTC))

Social anxiety and social anxiety disorder are not identical things. There is an area of overlap but there are plenty of differences too.

As a simple example, feeling socially anxious does not automatically mean that one has the full blown disorder. An awful lot of issues come out of just this one point, so no they should never be merged. A merging would decrease the quality of writing on each topic because they are not exactly the same.

Each article should mention and link to the other however, since both areas are related (although are also different) from each other.

Cowebd (talk) 21:15, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Separate article
Social anxiety is not a disease. Just as shyness is not a disease. Pathological social anxiety called social anxiety disorder is a disease. These are separate topics and hence belong to different articles. Mukadderat (talk) 21:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. But this page should really be dumped or completely re-written to reflect the general subject of social anxiety, as it currently looks like a poor version of the social anxiety disorder (aka social phobia) article. 122.57.136.187 (talk) 15:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It was an inattentive edit. Reverted. A the contributor was explained in their talkk page as follws:
 * Thank you for your contribution to Social anxiety article. Unfortunately I have to revert them. You are confusing the terms "social anxiety" and "social anxiety disorder"; the first one being an emotional state, the latter being a disease. The latter one (disease) is discussed in the article "social anxiety disorder". The difference between the two is similar to that of between fear and phobia. Mukadderat (talk) 17:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You are the one confusing the terms "social anxiety" and "social anxiety disorder.Thunder2k (talk) 21:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Social Anxiety overlaps with, but is not always equal to, full-blown social anxiety disorder.

For that reason there should be two separate articles, although like was posted elsewhere, the articles should continue to link to each other through Wikipedia internal links. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.235 (talk) 18:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Listen
I am supposed to be polite. It is really hard at the moment but I will keep my cool. Social phobia and social anxiety are one and the same. I am tired of people who don't know anything about a certain subject making misinformed, cocky comments to those who are actually correct--not to mention actually writing articles on said subject they know nothing about.

 Disputed x 1000  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.145.128 (talk) 03:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I work in the field and I don't completely agree with you. Social Phobia and Social Anxiety might be the same thing, but can also be different--

For example, a serious fear of public speaking might just be a specific social phobia if there is no other social anxiety in that persons life.

On the other hand, if a person has a fear of a number of different types of social situations, then there is no difference between the terms 'social anxiety' or 'social phobia' in describing them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.235 (talk) 18:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Psychology 2410A course at King's University College - Participants
― I have decided to edit this article for Psych 2410A at King’s 2012 Smckeo3 (talk) 01:38, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I have decided to edit this article for Psyc 2410A at King's 2012Dayna Dann (talk) 14:31, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I have decided to edit this article for Psych 2410A at King’s 2012‖ Cphan8 (talk) 15:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I also have decided to edit this article for the Psychology 2410A course at King's University College. Sarah Hailey (talk) 05:48, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Welcome to you all!  Lova Falk     talk   17:08, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Proposal for improvements by Dayna Dann
Changes I would like to make to this article: 1) I would like to edit the section on treatment of social anxiety. I would like to add in information of how to treat social anxiety naturally by learning coping skills and gaining confidence. 2) I would like to add in a sub-section of prevention. How parents can see early signs of social anxiety and prevent it from taking over their children's lives. 3) The empirical article I found discusses how experiences of discrimination, mental heath and being a social minority leads to social anxiety. I would like to discuss this and the articles findings on this page.

Article: Feinstein, Brian A., Marvin R. Goldfried, and Joanne Davila. 2012. The relationship between experiences of discrimination and mental health among lesbians and gay men: An examination of internalized homonegativity and rejection sensitivity as potential mechanisms. Journal of consulting and clinical psychology 80, (5): 917-927, https://www.lib.uwo.ca/cgi-bin/ezpauthn.cgi/docview/1027831279?accountid=15115; http://sfx.scholarsportal.info/western?url_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:journal&genre=article&sid=ProQ:ProQ%3Apsycarticles&atitle=The+relationship+between+experiences+of+discrimination+and+mental+health+among+lesbians+and+gay+men%3A+An+examination+of+internalized+homonegativity+and+rejection+sensitivity+as+potential+mechanisms.&title=Journal+of+Consulting+and+Clinical+Psychology&issn=0022006X&date=2012-10-01&volume=80&issue=5&spage=917&au=Feinstein%2C+Brian+A.%3BGoldfried%2C+Marvin+R.%3BDavila%2C+Joanne&isbn=&jtitle=Journal+of+Consulting+and+Clinical+Psychology&btitle= (accessed October 4, 2012).

Dayna Dann (talk) 16:32, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposals for improvement by Cphan8
To improve this article I would like to do the following steps:
 * 1) Edit the section about child development. At the moment the section does not discuss child development, it explains how children develop anxiety. The section also does not use very many sources to explain where and/or how the anxiety has developed. I would like to propose different theories about child development, like the attachment theory, to help readers understand where the anxiety could have possibly originated from.
 * 2) Edit the description of social anxiety. I find that the description is poorly written (grammatically) and is convoluted. I want to clear it up so that it is straightforward for readers.
 * 3) The empirical study that I am introducing is about child rearing and how it affects social anxiety. The article touches base on child rearing of both parents, but the main focus of the article is the effect of a fathers influence on the child.

Article: Paternal Child-Rearing Style and Child Social Anxiety: Investigation of Child Perceptions and Actual Father Behavior (Laurie A. Greco and Tracy L. Morris 2002)

Cphan8 (talk) 00:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Recent edits
Please! Recent edits to the lead by Cphan8, although clearly made in good faith and from an informed basis, are just making this article worse and worse. This is an encyclopedia article – not a discussion forum, not a blog, not a magazine column, and not an academic journal article. You simply cannot start the article "Social anxiety is not a disorder ...". You need to open with a clear statement of what it is (or what those who use the term routinely understand it to be), before moving on to say that some authorities interpret it differently (with references). Please read WP:MOSBEGIN, and indeed the whole of WP:LEAD. You have also thrown out a lot of sound material (including a very recent edit by your colleague Sarah Hailey), which, while perhaps too detailed for the lead, could usefully have been relocated to other parts of the article. I am loath to revert these edits, because they clearly have some solid grounding, but you must try to adhere to Wikipedia conventions, and to put yourself in the shoes of the newcomer to the topic who is simply looking for basic definitional information. GrindtXX (talk) 01:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have tried to copyedit the lead a bit, but more needs to be done. Specifically, these three sentences:
 * Overcoming social anxiety depends...
 * Recovery from chronic social anxiety ...
 * Overcoming social anxiety of this type...
 * should be summarized into one short part. Please improve!  Lova Falk     talk   08:38, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposals for improvement by SMCKEO3
Hello everyone. There is a few of us working on this page for our class, so I would love to work together and get as much feedback on my work as possible, both from my classmates as well as the other contributors to this page. If you have anything to add or would like to change, please do so! I am new to this so I may make errors. I just wish to better the article and would love for us all to come together.

For my contributions to this article I am doing three main changes:


 * 1) Prevention: I really found nothing about prevention, and I feel like it would be a better article if we gave more information on ways to prevent social anxiety when it either a) starts to occur, or b) before it even begins. This could also be sub categorized into children, adolescents, teens, etc. Much like any other concept, it is much easier to prevent it from occurring then try to change it once it has occurred.
 * 2) Treatment: Another thing I was slightly disappointed in was the treatment. It was very basic, and really did nothing for me. If I was socially anxious I would be frustrated from the lack of information. This also can be sub categorized into age categories.
 * 3) Parenting and Childhood Anxiety: Lastly I wish to add something with parenting and childhood anxiety, and I have found a wonderful empirical article with various studies intertwined to provide information on various aspects of this concept. I am not quite sure what heading this will fall under exactly, there is a lot of information and further on into the project I will have a better understanding of what exactly I wish to add. The article can be accessed here: http://www-psychology.concordia.ca/fac/mvg/PSYC802/Caroline_article.pdf

Smckeo3 (talk) 01:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia does not dispense medical advise, and does not address the reader directly as your edits did. In addition, your sourcing was weak. Please try to keep to sources that comply with our guidelines and to an formal tone. Thanks. - MrOllie (talk) 16:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposals for improvement by Sarah Hailey
Psych 2410A improvements- The three changes I am going to doing to improve this article are:


 * 1) Adding information from the article I found on Social Anxiety and Depression. I found that it shows a freat deal in credible information on symptoms of social anxiety, and also depression, and how they connect with the factor of low self esteem.
 * 2) I will also edit the main description of Social Anxiety. I feel that some of the information is a little confusing and not orderly. I want to be able to fix this so the information flows nicely and is easily readable. I will also be taking some of that information and making or adding to sections.
 * 3) Lastly, I will add to or make a few sections out of this information from the body of Social Anxiety and also from the information, mainly self esteem, that I take away from my article.

this will be the article: http://search.proquest.com.proxy1.lib.uwo.ca/psycinfo/docview/916912017/fulltextPDF/1398F3DA9A1587876A7/38?accountid=15115

Sarah Hailey (talk) 04:52, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Social Anxiety and Love-Shyness
I was somewhat surprised that this article in social anxiety did not contain love-shyness. The two things are strongly linked. Most people with severe social anxiety, especially males, will have a very hard time romantically. This is obvious. Bobvancleef38 (talk) 18:49, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Please review WP:MEDRS and find a secondary source, not linked to Brian G. Gilmartin and his book, to support inclusion. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 19:35, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Unsubstansiated claim in introduction
The last sentence of the introduction section is
 * Recovery from chronic social anxiety is possible in many cases, but usually only with some kind of therapy or sustained self-help or support group work.

I can't find this claim in the source given. (http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/mental-health-social-anxiety-disorder)

If no one can find another source for this I will delete this sentence.

/Pastisch (talk) 15:30, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Invalid announcement
Under the "prevalence" section of the article, it claims that "The examples and perspective in this section deal primarily with the United States and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject." This is an invalid claim because the United States is the most influential country in the world, and it's also the greatest. This announcement on this section is just another attempt to discredit the U.S. and spread lies about it not being a great country. The U.S. creates worldwide views, stop trying to disenfranchise it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.31.82 (talk) 02:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Causes
"Another potential cause of social anxiety is the nervous system." Yes, of course, but it is like saying: "Another potential cause of the flu is the body." This sentence needs clarification. What in the nervous system is the potential cause of social anxiety? Lova Falk    talk   08:15, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Addition
Would like to add this under section 4.2: Low Self Esteem:

These self judgements lead to them misconstruing social cues in a self-deprecating manner, as well as reminding them of their social downfalls.

This section talks about how self judgments reflect what others think about them, however, does not give any mention to social cues which plays a huge part in how individuals with social anxiety project what they are feeling as other people's opinions. Even so much as a small grimace on another person's face can trigger anxiety and self-deprecating behaviors for a person with SAD.--Psych27 (talk) 18:42, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposed inclusion of culture and demographics
I would like to include a section on culture and demographics, given that some cultures experience more social anxiety than others. I believe this is a valid contribution.Lstaplesbradley (talk) 17:13, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Unclear if you will be able to find refs specifically about culture or demographics for an emotion but it will be interesting to see what you find.  Demographics will be biomedical information and will need MEDRS sources; culture is not and needs simple RS refs. Jytdog (talk) 19:56, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * There are differences in the tendency to experience social anxiety. Everything is referenced from pubmed or psychinfo.Lstaplesbradley (talk) 17:32, 23 November 2016 (UTC)


 * here is the content you proposed

Proposed changes by Lstaplesbradley
I would like to rework this article 1) to disambiguate it from social anxiety disorder, and 2) to provide information on physiological symptoms, genetic and environmental contributions, personality and traits, cognitive and emotional components, culture and demographics, and measures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lstaplesbradley (talk • contribs) 22:48, 1 November 2016 (UTC) Lstaplesbradley (talk) 22:51, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I am not sure that is appropriate. For example - do emotions have demographics? Jytdog (talk) 22:50, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Different demographics experience different levels of social anxiety.Lstaplesbradley (talk) 22:51, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I see that sections on personality and traits as well as genetic and environmental contributions have been removed. I believe this was inappropriate as these sections are talking about trait anxiety and not the disorder. Lstaplesbradley (talk) 20:32, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * That content was indeed about the disorder. Persistent social anxiety - what is caused by genetic or environmental factors - is a disorder. Jytdog (talk) 00:45, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * This is incorrect. Social anxiety disorder has a number of criteria which must be met for a diagnosis (See DSM-5). Trait social anxiety can be high in the absence of the disorder- indeed social anxiety in the absence of the disorder is common. One major component of the disorder is avoidance of social situations. One can be high in trait social anxiety and low on avoidance. The meta analyses used for this post did not measure the disorder but rather measured trait anxiety. Kindly restore the sections. Lstaplesbradley (talk) 14:49, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Copied content below for further discussion... Jytdog (talk) 17:27, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean because the genetic and environmental section and personality/traits section refer to the disorder, but attempt to differentiate between symptoms and the full blown disorder. I will clarify.Lstaplesbradley (talk) 17:41, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

content under discussion
with references formatted to be useful.

Both genetic and environmental influences contribute to social anxiety symptoms and social anxiety disorder. Twin studies show that there is a genetic component to social anxiety disorder as well as environmental factors. Familial resemblance for social anxiety is primarily explained by genetic influences. The genetic contribution to social anxiety is particularly strong when examining social anxiety symptoms that do not meet full criteria for the disorder. In adults, the genetic contribution to social anxiety is half of that for youth, indicating that as we age, environmental factors play a greater role in the onset and maintenance of social anxiety symptoms.
 * Genetic and Environmental Contributions


 * Personality and Traits

Anxiety associated with communicating with others is a stable trait in the individual. Individuals who show high levels ofcommunication apprehension tend to show this in a variety of situations.

Behavioral inhibition is a biologically basedtemperament associated with a tendency to withdraw in response to objects, people, and situations that are unfamiliar. Individuals high in social anxiety show increased behavioral inhibition. Parents of children who show behavioral inhibition are more likely to have social anxiety disorder than parents whose children did not show this temperament. Childhood behavioral inhibition is also associated with later increases in social anxiety.

I need to go do other stuff so won't be able to come back until tonight. Several of these refs are way, way too old. Please see WP:MEDDATE. Some appear to be primary. (see WP:MEDDEF) Communication Research is not medline or pubmed indexed per this. not great.

2nd iteration
was readded before discussion was done in these diffs - copied here for discussion...


 * Genetic and Environmental Contributions

Both genetic and environmental influences contribute to social anxiety symptoms, both meeting criteria for the disorder as well as the nonclinical experience of social anxiety. Twin studies show that there is a genetic component to an increased experience of social anxiety as well as environmental factors. Familial resemblance for social anxiety is primarily explained by genetic influences. The genetic contribution to social anxiety is particularly strong when examining social anxiety symptoms that do not meet full criteria for the disorder. In adults, the genetic contribution to social anxiety is half of that for youth, indicating that as we age, environmental factors play a greater role in the onset and maintenance of social anxiety symptoms.


 * Personality and Traits

Anxiety associated with communicating with others is a stable trait in the individual. Individuals who show high levels of communication apprehension tend to show this in a variety of situations. Behavioral inhibition is a biologically based temperament associated with a tendency to withdraw in response to objects, people, and situations that are unfamiliar. Individuals high in social anxiety show increased behavioral inhibition. Childhood behavioral inhibition is also associated with later increases in social anxiety.

-- Jytdog (talk) 18:28, 17 November 2016 (UTC)


 * hm, same issue as above with old/primary refs. Will deal with content tonight. 18:28, 17 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Sources not indexed on pubmed are indexed in psychinfo, a reliable database used in most meta analyses in psychology. Older refs are used when no newer reviews or meta analyses cover the same thing. Is it true that under no circumstances are primary sources acceptable?Lstaplesbradley (talk) 16:23, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Since there has been no further discussion following my explanation for use of these sources, I will post the edits again unless there is an objection before tomorrow night.Lstaplesbradley (talk) 00:36, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Guidelines exist for a reason; you have not given any reason for ignoring them.   The only ref you have that is worth using there is the 2014 review  but it lumps together studies looking at social anxiety disorder (SAS) and social anxiety symptoms (SAS), and frames all its conclusions in terms of "SAD/SAS".   This is not useful for an article about SAS.  I understand you are doing this for a class.  Did your instructor and WP liaison not provide you with the standard training materials? Jytdog (talk) 07:14, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * btw I have looked, and have not found good sources on genetic/environment causes of the emotion of social anxiety. there are scads on SAD of course.  but this is not the SAD article. you seem to be barking up the wrong tree - the mission of WP is to summarize accepted knowledge, and we find that in secondary sources.  That is how this place works.   Jytdog (talk) 07:22, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback. I am indeed aware that WP is meant to summarize accepted knowledge- there exists accepted knowledge about genetic contributions toward the tendency to experience the emotion of social anxiety. The meta analysis covers SAD as well, but there are facets of social anxiety that are worth discussing that exist outside of the disorder. I am not trying to ignore WP guidelines, though I see that we disagree about which refs are worth using. Refs that are indexed in PsychInfo and PubMed are equally valid, for example.Lstaplesbradley (talk) 17:04, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * If you can find MEDRS sources that discuss these things with regard to SAS (not SAD) content here based on them would be fine. Sources that are not specific to SAS cannot be used to generate content about SAS.  Jytdog (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe the meta analysis on genetic contributions is an adequate ref. It summarizes accepted knowledge and was found on pubmed. It is older but there has not since been a need to re-summarize this knowledge. It includes the disorder, yes, but importantly, it also includes subclinical social anxiety symptoms. We seem to disagree about whether subclinical symptoms are worth discussing. Since the experience of social anxiety exists both within and outside the context of the disorder, this area of wikipedia is incomplete without an explanation of the causes and features of subclinical social anxiety. Lstaplesbradley (talk) 17:39, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Culture and Demographics
+	Social anxiety is a universal phenomenon but differs across cultures.. Because of differences in social norms across East Asian and Western European countries, a large body of research has compared these two groups on social anxiety. East Asian individuals report higher social anxiety than Western Europeans. Asian heritage individuals show more social introversion and shyness compared to individuals of Western heritage. Some factors that contribute to these differences include Individualistic versus Collectivistic culture, perception of social norms, and gender roles. Cultures that value social obligations and group harmony may foster greater social anxiety than societies that do not emphasize these things. Country of residence is a stronger predictor of social anxiety than is cultural heritage; for example, someone of Asian heritage living in an Asian country may show increased social anxiety compared to an individual of Asian heritage living in a Western country. There are no sex differences in social anxiety.

as above, this includes very old primary sources. also the first meta-analysis says exactly the opposite of "someone of Asian heritage living in an Asian country may show increased social anxiety compared to an individual of Asian heritage living in a Western country" -- namely behaviors that are normal in asian culture may be interpreted (or "be?") social anxiety in a western culture.

unclear why this is focused on only one kind of cultural distinction. not really NPOV in that regard... staying at a high level, with reviews, helps avoid this kind of problem. Jytdog (talk) 07:02, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

ICD 10 link is non specific and only links to the brower app not the guidelines referred too
The ICD 10 link which refers to guidelines for Social Anxiety Disorder is just a link to the ICD 10 browser and doesn't actually link to the guidelines. Nor does a trivial search of the ICD 10 app produce the listed guidelines. Should either remove the ICD 10 reference or make the hyperlink more targeted.

Joe Drumgoole (talk) 10:31, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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Wiki Education assignment: Social Attraction and Relationship Development
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