Talk:Society for Protection of the Harbour

Wikified
The talk page was wikified to make the page to be easily understood, hopefully. Only title was added in this page; please kindly change the title if it was not fit the content. Please use ~ to sign your names here. Thanks for your attention. New dicussion please start at the bottom of the page. Shrimp wong 09:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Chinese reference
ūhi,i think this a good idea to pur related newspaper article here, but including the chinese version, will it be a bit improper??(Antonie)

leave message
hi there! if there's anyone doing the topic: Society for Protection of the Harbour plz leave a msg here! thanks!=) 0101simon06 02:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I will be providing contents shortly =] 0101alison06 05:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Add information
I've noticed that nearly all the contents on the website have been posted already. Do you guys have any ideas of where else to get information?
 * Hi! agree!! We have already got all teh information form the web. what else can we add??

Image
I don't know how to post images on our page. How about those who know how to do it post some more images. I think our page is a little bit too inaminate.

Map
Hi, can anyone who's familiar with functions of Wikipedia try to enlarge our HK map? It can't be seen clearly.0101sukitian06 04:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)Suki


 * Hey guys, sorry 4 joining in so late. Maybe I can deal with the images, OK? ;) 0101alison06 09:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

History in 2006
Sorry I've forgotten to login in a minute before and I did some edit.But alison changed everything back. Do you mean that you don't want someone who is unknown to correct our site or you just don't want the 2006 History to be changed?? Actually, I think it's a bit odd for the style in the Histoy of 2006, so it is better to follow to what our groupmates have written in the preivous years' history. Do you agree?? If you agree, then I will do it againg. If not, I would like to hear from you. ^^THX Susanne

Reply from 0101sukitian06
O I am not very familiar with the functioning of the whole wiki thing so didn't notice someone was making changes at the same time. Please feel free to change anything you find necessary :) We got to work it out as a team. btw, I have prob with the image licence in wikimedia commons. How to avoid the copyright violation? Thanks! 0101alison06 12:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah! i have encountered the same problem as alison did. becasue it said you can't upload any pictures/images from exisitng websites to wikipedia. Is there anybody know how to deal with this, that is to upload " legalized" pictures to wiki?? please share =) 0101simon06 14:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

re Antonie: I guess for the Chinese articles as long as you put it here, it may be useful for those users who understand chinese. And in fact we have got english ones already, so chinese ones maybe just acts as an additional reference. what about others' opinion?? 0101simon06 14:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Re simon, just take others articles as reference, as we are in the eng version of wikipedia, and we have already had eng news paper providied, i just wonder if it is a good idea to put the chinese one here. but sure it will be fine if others agree to include them here. cheers~  Antonie

Another opinion is, would the "significant events of SPH" duplicate with the "History", coz the content is actually more or less the same, i suggest to add any extra events in "history" whether than open a new section. How does it sound?? Antonie

Actually I quite agree with Antonie. The siginificant events are more or less similar with some of the information provided by the "history" part. But on the other hand, I also think that the word "history" is a little bit inappropriate for that section. Maybe we can just merge the two sections together and change the name to "significant events of SPH". What do you think?0101sukitian06 14:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ya, I think both of you are quite right. Actually, the significant events are more readable but it is a bit overlapped indeed. And It seems that there are so many things are under point form in our page. Maybe we can do as suki said merge two together. Susanne


 * It would be nice. Perhpas we can keep the title "Significant Achievements" whilst putting the historic contents under it. What do you think?

Another prob I spotted out is the lack of uniformity in our use of names, Society for Protection of the Harbour and Victoria Harbour. Sometimes we put the full forms, sometimes we use different abbreviations (e.g. SPH, the Society, the Harbour etc.). Would it be better to reach a concensus over this? :) 0101alison06 02:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the problem of the names is due to our seperate work. Perhaps we should choose full name and abbreviation according to the consistency of the paragraph. If the full name has already existed in that paragraph, it would be better to use abbreviation. What do you think? 0101sukitian06 03:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * yes,I agree with suki.The abbreviation should be used instead if the  full name has been provided at the beginning of the paragraph because using abbreviation can reduce the number of word we have to type ,and it is also easy for others to read..Yen

anyone suggesting what else we can include here? seems we have covered much of the information about the society..0101simon06 04:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Reference
Yes,I agree with Simon and this is bothering me now. How about adding the sources we have consulted and used? Is this necessary?0101sukitian06 05:39, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * sukitian, i think u r right that u can prephaps add the sources under "Reference" , but avoiding duplicate with the "external link"..

also, i remember in the lectures, it is said that we only add chinese for translation of specific terms..how about we add more english news article and remove the chinese part?? any opinions? (Antonie)


 * Actually I think the Chinese news articles part is okay because the news are different. But if you think that it is better to stick to the rules...that's fine^^Susanne


 * Hey~ Maybe we can put al the Chinese news article to the page of SHP page in the Chinese wikipedia and then make a link to that page under the topic of related Chinese news articles.... Do you guys think it is workable....??I just try to think of some ways to keep those useful chinese news. And maybe I put the link in the external links first and you can see see if it is okay  susanne

Hey guys! I've put the reference part 0101sukitian06 15:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)at the bottom of our page and I've added the sources which I've used there. I don't know what sources you have used, so you can add them to the reference part by yourselves.

The Chinese news articles will do fine coz afterall they only appear as titles here linking to the full contexts. Anyway, can anyone please upload the 2 pop-ups from the SPH official webpage ("Protect the Harbour" & "Harbour Carnival & Walk for the Harbour" posters) as I still hv prob with the licensing ^^" Thousands thanks! 0101alison06 01:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Outsiders
Hey JMSC, some outsiders hv altered our page. Would you like to keep their changes or should v stick to what v had? 0101alison06 08:25, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi. I am not sure whether this outsider is an expert on Wikipedia. But he has indeed made a "massive cleaning" on our page. I think we should just keep doing our jobs but I am also afraid that he will do such cleaning again in the future. What do you think?0101sukitian06 12:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Categorize
EveryoneI''m not really familiar with the wiki=0= "This article, image, template or category should belong in one or more categories. Please categorize it so it may be associated with related articles, images, templates or categories. Thank you.Please remove this template after categorizing. This article has been tagged since October 2006." What does this message mean??0101susanne06

And does the "massive cleaning" related to what Hannah's email sent to us?? It's a bit confusing that whether what were deleted by our groupmates and what were deleted by outsiders... And I have no idea to decide what other things I should add to the page indeed=0= poor 0101susanne06

Information delete
Hey everyone, who is ReyBrujo? why did he delete the infomation we put on the page? Is he allowed to do that?Can we add those infomation on the page again? I really dun know what infomation we should put on the page now.0101yen06


 * Guys, I've just reread the email sent by Hannah. I think her main point is that we should prove to the one who did the deletion that our contents are notable and are wothy of keeping. But Hannah's email refered to "pages", meaning the entire article. Our case is a little bit different. The question is, do you think what the guy has deleted is useless or useful? If we all think they are useful (such as the External Links), we can just readd those things and put the reason on the guy's discussion board. How about this?0101sukitian06 08:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear all, I guess our page is not under the threat of "complete deletion". That ReyBrujo doesnt seem to be destructive, but he might not understand what v ar actually doing. So if v insist on the importance of the erased content, v can just put them back.

BTW, I have standardised the use of full forms and abbreviations. Perhaps its time 4 us to round up our page instead of adding anymore new texts (unless necessary) ;) 0101alison06 11:46, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think maybe we should add the external links back to our page, coz only including the website of the society is really not enough. What do you guys think?0101sukitian06 14:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I also think that the external links are okay And what is more, in today's tutorial, we have discussed that it is time for most of the groups to round up their page. And what I got from our discussion is that we should keep our page concise for the reader so those appeared in the other pages of wikipedia ashould not be added too much in our page....Maybe it's time for us to further discuss or check whether our content are concise enough or too much redundancy....I am not sure, but we can take it into our account0101susanne06Susanne

Suggestion
Hey guysOne more suggestion...Is the see also link a bit repeated? Cos readers may simply just click to the official website and see those articles....Shall we still keep them?? It seems that we are a bit like just making anotherofficial website...It just what I think...what do you think?? Susanne

Regarding the comments about "our page"; I understand that this is a class project, but please remember that nobody owns articles. This is not your article. Anybody can edit. Please see Ownership of articles and bullet point 6 under User:Fuzheado/jmsc0101/instructions. If you don't understand why somebody removed content from an article, and they didn't provide an Edit Summary, leave that user a message on their talk page and ask them. --Geniac 00:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Susanne. However, I am not sure what else we can do. Have you got any suggestions about where else we can get information about the society? One more important point is that, I think we should provide something that is not so positive about the society, such as the news article written by the speaker of the last lecture (Tsui actually has other motivations to form such an organization.) All the contents from the society's website are kind of positive, so we haven't provided anything really neutral. I think we should consider again the question that what the users of Wikipedia really want to know apart from the information provided by the society's website. Any comments about this?0101sukitian06 13:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * those "negative" side of SPH are mainly come from Winston Chu...do you think we needa add those news under the "Founders"/?

Antonie


 * Yeswe can put some less positive information in the page. But how can we present it in a porper way?? Actually apart from the award, we also did not write much positive things about SPH...How can we strike a balance??

Susanne

And from my point of view, the society indeed raise the citizen's awareness. At least my interest in this problem. may be we can add some of this Hong Kong people' view on the society in the website too. Another thing is the I think our details about the victoria harbour seems more detailed than the wikipedia....may be we can put those thing into the Victoria Harbour's page and then our page will be more concise. But one thing that I am wondering is that the Harbour is an important part of our page....so how can we strike a balance...he...do you know what I mean?? Susanne


 * "Positive aspects" of the society do not necessarily mean the awards they have won. Also what they are doing now, coz most of our information comes from the society itself, thus our contents may be unconciously positive to some extent0101sukitian06 06:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC). I think Susanne's idea of puting some citizens' point of view on our page is quite good. But we should bear in mind that these ideas are presented by some sources, i.e. we cannot make them up. Also, I agree that we can move some of our contents to the Victoria Harbour page, in order to make our page more concise and readable. The information of the harbour is important indeed, but since it can be found in another Wikipedia page, we do not need to repeat those information.

Room of deletion?
If v ar to add new contents, I guess there is room for deletion of some comparatively less important issues. 0101alison06 16:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * as what our tutor suggest in the last tutorial..i think maybe we can condense the bkg information, i agree that it is a good idea to move those material to the page of "victoria harbour" in wikipedia            Antonie


 * I have made some deletion, feel free to re-edit. thanks.  Antonie


 * Hi there,

How about shortening section 3? Thanks. 0101hannah06 07:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey everyone, maybe we can also cross out the change of location part to make our part 3 shorter. Shall we?

Susanne


 * I think we should keep the change of location part, coz it has to some extent exposed controversial reaction.0101sukitian06 12:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Reference
Guys, I suggest you put the sources that you've consulted under the "References" part.147.8.235.63 14:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Forget to log in again...the last message was by me.0101sukitian06 14:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I read from Geniac's comment in one of our course's page (the Hong Kong Journalism Association): '''Please see bullet points 2 and 3 under Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a directory. --Geniac 18:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)''' and '''Luckily, I have this article on my watchlist so I saw these comments. please do not include contact information in an article. As the last sentence of bullet point 3 here says, "Wikipedia is not the yellow pages.''' And in the tutorial...hannah also advice us not to include contact information....I wonder if the change of office location is just some similar thing What do you think?? Susanne

Difficulties in reading the talk page
The page seems to be a salad bowl to me; everything was mixed together. So, I divide the page into sections. Hopefully it can make this page more clear to other Wikipedians and make the dicussion more effectivly.Shrimp wong 09:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Leafletsph.jpg
Image:Leafletsph.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

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