Talk:Sonja Lang

Unitled section
As a big toki pona fan, I think this should be a redirect. The language is notable, the creator is not. I checked to see what conlang creators have their own page. The pattern that emerges is that conlang creators with wiki pages either have a significant public professional life (professors, sci-fi and fantasy writers, writers of conlangs for movies).

List of what conlang creators have both a language page and page about them:

Matthewdeanmartin (talk) 14:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ithkuil - John Quijada (language only)
 * Brithenig - Andrew Smith (language only)
 * Kēlen - created by Sylvia Sotomayor (language only)
 * Ro - Rev. Edward Powell Foster (language only)
 * Slovianski - Design by committee, not clear if creators have pages (seems not)
 * Verdurian_language - Mark Rosenfelder (language only)
 * Loglan- James Cooke Brown (both)- Professor
 * Bliss Symbols -Charles_K._Bliss (both)- Famous life story
 * Láadan - Suzette_Haden_Elgin (both), creator is professor, sci-fi author
 * Teonaht - Sally Caves (both), Creator is also sci-fi author
 * Tsolyáni - M. A. R. Barker, creator of commercial RPG game
 * Lingua Franca Nova - Dr. C. George Boeree - Both, creator is professor
 * Novial - Prof Otto Jespersen (both) - Creator was Norwegian comedian
 * Occidental- Edgar de Wahl (both)
 * Na'vi - Paul_Frommer (both) -movie language
 * Sindarin - J. R. R. Tolkien. (both)- creator is fantasy author, + movie language
 * Klingon - Marc Okrand- (both) movie language


 * I'm not seeing any real evidence of independent notability here, so I've redirected this article back to Toki Pona per WP:BLP1E. Robofish (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Histmerged from Talk:Sonja Elen Kisa. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 08:32, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think this article should be merged. Lang meets various WP:SNG but the available information is very short. WP:PAGEDECIDE says "Sometimes, when a subject is notable, but it is unlikely that there ever will be a lot to write about it, editors should weigh the advantages and disadvantages of creating a permanent stub." Sources only discuss Lang in relation with toki pona. I think the toki pona article provides more detailed context and this article can be easily merged as it is very short. - jan Ca talk to me! 07:06, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * jan Ca o: Given the previous bold redirection and reversion noted above, the best next step here, then, would be a requested merge. This (and before it) has gone back and forth between a redirect and an article several times over the years, and it would be good to settle the matter once and for all. I'm personally undecided. (COI disclaimer: Sonja is a personal friend and I have once or twice acted as an intermediary to convey her feelings about this article. This comment represents only my own views, though, and I have no financial stake or other strong interest in whether an article exists at this title—a matter on which Sonja is, last I checked, indifferent.) --  Tamzin  &#91;cetacean needed&#93; (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 17:30, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem with this and previous discussions is that they constantly revolve around notability. Well, nobody questions the notability of Toki Pona, which almost by definition makes its creator notable as well. In addition, WP:BLP1E does not apply, since Toki Pona is not a one-time event. In my opinion, the problem with this article is a different one: wouldn't Sonja at least deserve a decent biography instead of this poor excuse for one? As it was pointed out below: except for perhaps two or three sentences, this article is nothing but a random compilation of trivia and facts about Toki Pona. It lacks critical info like: when/where/what did she study, what is her profession, what other languages did she create, where does she live (because 2015 is not exactly what I would call "currently"), etc. Other language versions are in an even worse shape, most of them consisting of only one or two sentences. I would say: if the sources available are insufficient for a real biography, then the information presented in this article would probably be much better off as a subsection of Toki Pona — and reach a larger audience as well. &mdash;IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu?  17:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Naskiĝnomo
Mi supozas ke ŝia naskiĝnomo ne estas "Sonja Elen Kisa" 173.176.238.118 (talk) 10:49, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is true, AFAIK her birth name is not Sonja Elen Kisa. But anyway, I don't understand the point of this article at all. Half of it duplicates info from Toki Pona, the other half just is a collection of trivialities: languages she studied, things she did in her young years and a language act that has nothing to do with the subject at all. No sign of any independent notability whatsoever. I mean, even if a conlang is notable, that doesn't automatically make it's creator notable, does it? See also the examples above. Y Canwr (talk) 17:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Y Canwr – You may wish to look at previous consensus at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 112 and Talk:Toki Pona. You can start an AfD or try to get consensus on this page if you think it doesn't meet notability. Someone has already done this, redirecting this article, but the discussion at Toki Pona's talk page led to a quick reversion. But then again, I won't stop you. — 3PPYB6 — T ALK — C ONTRIBS  — 21:23, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I propose merging Sonja Lang into toki pona. There is not a lot of coverage about Sonja Lang, and makes for a very short article. Most of the content duplicates information at toki pona. Lang meets SNGs, and normally would be notable, but WP:N states that "Sometimes, when a subject is notable, but it is unlikely that there ever will be a lot to write about it, editors should weigh the advantages and disadvantages of creating a permanent stub." Current information in the article can be better contextualized if merged. Ca talk to me! 00:13, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. - Only non-redundant information on Sonja Lang is about her personal life. That can be added as a section in toki pona. Justanotherinternetguy ε=ε=ε=ε=┌(￣▽￣)┘ -->  talk  03:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's got to be the longest signature I've seen here Ca talk to me! 09:24, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Lol, I hope it didn't bother you! If it did I'd be happy to change it :) Justanotherinternetguy ε=ε=ε=ε=┌(￣▽￣)┘ -->  talk  10:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No it's fine - just wanted to comment on your signature :D Ca talk to me! 11:36, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 8 September 2023
The target of this redirect, Sonja Lang, was also turned into a redirect on 30 August. The target of this redirect should be changed to Toki Pona to avoid double redirect. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 23:54, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done:, this is the talk page of Sonja Lang. Sonja Lang is already a redirect to the target you mention. Is there another page that needs to be retargeted? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 00:54, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I have made a mistake while making the request. The change I intended to request for is Sonja Elen Kisa, and I just found out that Talk:Sonja Elen Kisa has been redirected here. Sonja Elen Kisa should be redirect to Toki Pona to avoid the double redirect. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 01:04, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying. I fixed that redirect. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)