This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This redirect was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of linguistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LinguisticsWikipedia:WikiProject LinguisticsTemplate:WikiProject LinguisticsLinguistics articles
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
As a big toki pona fan, I think this should be a redirect. The language is notable, the creator is not. I checked to see what conlang creators have their own page. The pattern that emerges is that conlang creators with wiki pages either have a significant public professional life (professors, sci-fi and fantasy writers, writers of conlangs for movies).
List of what conlang creators have both a language page and page about them:
Ithkuil - John Quijada (language only)
Brithenig - Andrew Smith (language only)
Kēlen - created by Sylvia Sotomayor (language only)
Ro - Rev. Edward Powell Foster (language only)
Slovianski - Design by committee, not clear if creators have pages (seems not)
Verdurian_language - Mark Rosenfelder (language only)
Loglan- James Cooke Brown (both)- Professor
Bliss Symbols -Charles_K._Bliss (both)- Famous life story
Láadan - Suzette_Haden_Elgin (both), creator is professor, sci-fi author
Teonaht - Sally Caves (both), Creator is also sci-fi author
Tsolyáni - M. A. R. Barker, creator of commercial RPG game
Lingua Franca Nova - Dr. C. George Boeree - Both, creator is professor
Novial - Prof Otto Jespersen (both) - Creator was Norwegian comedian
Occidental- Edgar de Wahl (both)
Na'vi - Paul_Frommer (both) -movie language
Sindarin - J. R. R. Tolkien. (both)- creator is fantasy author, + movie language
I'm not seeing any real evidence of independent notability here, so I've redirected this article back to Toki Pona per WP:BLP1E. Robofish (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think this article should be merged. Lang meets various WP:SNG but the available information is very short. WP:PAGEDECIDE says "Sometimes, when a subject is notable, but it is unlikely that there ever will be a lot to write about it, editors should weigh the advantages and disadvantages of creating a permanent stub." Sources only discuss Lang in relation with toki pona. I think the toki pona article provides more detailed context and this article can be easily merged as it is very short. - jan Catalk to me! 07:06, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
jan Ca o: Given the previous bold redirection and reversion noted above, the best next step here, then, would be a requested merge. This (and Sonja Elen Kisa before it) has gone back and forth between a redirect and an article several times over the years, and it would be good to settle the matter once and for all. I'm personally undecided. (COI disclaimer: Sonja is a personal friend and I have once or twice acted as an intermediary to convey her feelings about this article. This comment represents only my own views, though, and I have no financial stake or other strong interest in whether an article exists at this title—a matter on which Sonja is, last I checked, indifferent.) -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 17:30, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with this and previous discussions is that they constantly revolve around notability. Well, nobody questions the notability of Toki Pona, which almost by definition makes its creator notable as well. In addition, WP:BLP1E does not apply, since Toki Pona is not a one-time event. In my opinion, the problem with this article is a different one: wouldn't Sonja at least deserve a decent biography instead of this poor excuse for one? As it was pointed out below: except for perhaps two or three sentences, this article is nothing but a random compilation of trivia and facts about Toki Pona. It lacks critical info like: when/where/what did she study, what is her profession, what other languages did she create, where does she live (because 2015 is not exactly what I would call "currently"), etc. Other language versions are in an even worse shape, most of them consisting of only one or two sentences. I would say: if the sources available are insufficient for a real biography, then the information presented in this article would probably be much better off as a subsection of Toki Pona — and reach a larger audience as well. —IJzeren JanUszkiełtu? 17:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mi supozas ke ŝia naskiĝnomo ne estas "Sonja Elen Kisa" 173.176.238.118 (talk) 10:49, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is true, AFAIK her birth name is not Sonja Elen Kisa. But anyway, I don't understand the point of this article at all. Half of it duplicates info from Toki Pona, the other half just is a collection of trivialities: languages she studied, things she did in her young years and a language act that has nothing to do with the subject at all. No sign of any independent notability whatsoever. I mean, even if a conlang is notable, that doesn't automatically make it's creator notable, does it? See also the examples above. Y Canwr (talk) 17:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I propose merging Sonja Lang into toki pona. There is not a lot of coverage about Sonja Lang, and makes for a very short article. Most of the content duplicates information at toki pona. Lang meets SNGs, and normally would be notable, but WP:N states that "Sometimes, when a subject is notable, but it is unlikely that there ever will be a lot to write about it, editors should weigh the advantages and disadvantages of creating a permanent stub." Current information in the article can be better contextualized if merged. Catalk to me! 00:13, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. - Only non-redundant information on Sonja Lang is about her personal life. That can be added as a section in toki pona. Justanotherinternetguy ε=ε=ε=ε=┌(;￣▽￣)┘ --> talk 03:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's got to be the longest signature I've seen here Catalk to me! 09:24, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, I hope it didn't bother you! If it did I'd be happy to change it :) Justanotherinternetguy ε=ε=ε=ε=┌(;￣▽￣)┘ --> talk 10:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No it's fine - just wanted to comment on your signature :D Catalk to me! 11:36, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request to Sonja Elen Kisa has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
The target of this redirect, Sonja Lang, was also turned into a redirect on 30 August. The target of this redirect should be changed to Toki Pona#History to avoid double redirect. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 23:54, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
.jpg){kind=small}
Not done: Tutwakhamoe, this is the talk page of Sonja Lang. Sonja Lang is already a redirect to the target you mention. Is there another page that needs to be retargeted? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 00:54, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
