Talk:Sonoran Desert

Article Expansion
I wanted to work on adding some detailed info on the kinds of plants and animals that inhabit the Sonoran Desert, as well as towns and other human establishments. If anyone wants to help, feel free to.

I think we should edit what is already here. Specifically, there may be an error with a fact in the ecology section that states the Saguaro cactus grows in the wild only in the Sonoran Desert. I am pretty sure it grows naturally in New Mexico and Mexico. I don't really give a shit either way but I am bored. Just calling attention to it, not even sure if I am right —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.0.80.236  (talk • contribs) 22:03, 10 April 2008
 * According to Physiological Ecology of North American Desert Plants (p. 127, ISBN 3540531130), the saguaro is confined to the Sonoran Desert: "The giant saguaro, Carnegiea gigantea, is the most well-known of a group of spectacular columnar cacti from the Sonoran Desert...The distribution of Carnegiea is completely within the boundaries of the Sonoran Desert, and so it is often considered the characteristic plant of the Sonoran Desert." You can see a map of the range here. Spacepotato (talk) 22:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have a problem with the claim that there are 2000 plant species in the Sonoran Desert. There is no link or reference to substantiate the claim, and no information regarding whether these are native plant species either. Internet searches yield one other unsubstantiated claim of 2500 plant species in the Sonoran Desert, from a rather amateurish and vague website, but all other references list only between 475 and 560, which sounds far more probable for a desert climate. The USDA can be used to find an actual estimate at www.plants.usda.gov but it would require compiling a list by using their data. 76.109.123.5 (talk) 17:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)boty

Anyone add a climate section to the article please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:250:3002:540F:8C03:6E5:CDB3:F8AA (talk) 15:50, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Map wrong?
Where did you get this Map? The Sonoran desert doesn't extend into California. The point you have mentioned as "Mojave desert" is actually part of the Sierra Nevada and Inyo-Kern. Yet, your article titled "Mojave Desert " seems to correct this....?68.231.189.108 (talk) 15:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)68.231.189.108 (talk) 15:25, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

A further trouble with this page's map (displayed in the upper-right-hand infobox) is that it fails to gibe with the page's verbal description of the Sonoran as covering part of Baja California Sur, for the map's shaded area, representing the Sonoran, does not extend that far south in Baja California, but stops short over a hundred miles north of Baja Sur. Mucketymuck (talk) 03:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Not only is the map indeed wrong - very wrong as pointed out by the above two comments - it has yet to be corrected. That's inexcusable given that the first heads-up was made over TWELVE YEARS AGO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.183.50.148 (talk) 19:53, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

see above — hike395 (talk) 01:17, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the pointer! It looks like the main problem with our current map is insufficient coverage of Baja California. Contrary to the original poster's claim, every source I see indicates it does extend into a part of SE California. I don't know how to make maps in the "Wikipedia style" to match other articles, but perhaps this map will suffice for now? As it appears on a US govt site without other attribution, I think we can assume public domain? A2soup (talk) 04:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I also found that map after seeing the comments above. I'm not confident about assuming PD, because the images on that page aren't properly attributed. For example, the map right below it is from Commons with a CC-BY-SA license, but the page creator didn't provide a backlink. Uploading the Sonoran map makes me quite nervous. I'll see if I can somehow generate a map. I've never done it before. — hike395 (talk) 06:04, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Later: I'm just not enough of an expert to make a not-terrible map. — hike395 (talk) 07:29, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for trying. I'm also not an image editing person at all, but I'll give it a go this weekend. Maybe I can just copy color and paintbrush on the current map to match the map we discussed above? It will be kludgey for sure if it works, but better than nothing. A2soup (talk) 13:56, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I was browsing Commons by category, and found a good map! Now updated. What do you think? — hike395 (talk) 14:41, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Looks perfect, thanks so much! Nice that it contextualizes it with the Mojave as well, since there is obviously some confusion there. A2soup (talk) 15:00, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Arizona desert should not redirect here?
I recently noticed that Arizona desert is a redirect to this article. While the Sonoran desert certainly is emblematic of Arizona, it is not the only desert in Arizona--we have the Mojave desert as well as some areas that may be considered cold deserts. Also, when someone enters the phrase "Arizona desert," they may be thinking of Monument Valley or the Painted Desert or even something else. I think it would be better to have a summary overview page titled "Deserts of Arizona," which could include all these subjects, similar to the Deserts of California article, and keeping the naming consistent. The page Arizona desert could then be a redirect to "Deserts of Arizona." Any thoughts on this? Darkest tree (talk) 18:03, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree - There are multiple deserts in Arizona. "Arizona desert" should be renamed "Deserts of Arizona", then the article filled out. Suggested topics might be consideration of aridity in Arizona in general (e.g., the politics of water), natural history sections on each individual desert (with "Further Information" "See hats" for more specific info), and discussions of ecotones where the sections meet. FloraWilde (talk) 14:57, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Flora of the Sonoran Desert into this article
There is a proposal to merge Flora of the Sonoran Desert into this article.
 * Oppose - The flora article is too big to fit as a section in this article. Information from its lead can be a section in this article. The flora article should be a parent article for six independent articles on each of its extensively studied major subdivisions. FloraWilde (talk) 23:35, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Change from "undocumented" to "Illegal" or "Against the law"
The subsection was entitled "undocumented border crossing." "Undocumented" in this context is first of all a polemical and propagandistic term, violation of NPOV. The issue is not primarily a lack of documentation, but violation of the law. The topic is "Crossing the Border in violation of American Law," or illegal entry into the USA. Thus I have changed the title to what is objective and factual. (PeacePeace (talk) 19:27, 27 January 2017 (UTC))

If someone is crossing the border due to seeking political asylum, or if they are under the age of 18, then they are not, objectively or factually, illegally entering the United States. So, in the interest of, to paraphrase the above comment, objectivity and factual reality, as well as in the interest in maintaining a NPOV, I will be changing it back. I am not conceptually against the changes you made, but your reasoning for the changes betray a basic misunderstanding of immigration law. I suggest anyone who wants to change this section read up on asylum and underage border crossing before you present something as a fact without room for interpretation. I am sure there is room for alterations to the language of this section to reflect the largely illegal nature of these border crossings, but using actual evidence and not dog whistle talking points is important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.93.5 (talk) 22:20, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Protection
This page is regularly getting vandalised. I think it should be protected – Nixinova (talk • edits) 20:18, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Saguaro National Park: Sonoran Desert or not?
At the moment, two very contrasting views are presented on wikipedia in different articles. In the article Saguaro National Park, the Saguaro National Park is a very part of the Sonoran Desert. More, the saguaro cactus is typical of the Sonoran desert, as it is also present in the Mexican part of the Sonoran Desert (e.g. in the state of Sonora). In the article Sonoran Desert, there is a picture of the Saguaro NP in the information box. Even in the article List of North American deserts, there is the Ansel Adams picture of a Saguaro cactus in the Saguaro NP (eastern or central part of Southern Arizona). In contrast to this, in the same article (List of North Am...) the Saguaro National Park is classified as Arizona/New Mexico Plateau and as a "cold desert". The altitude of the Saguaro National Park is comparable to the Californian "High Desert" (i.e. the high part of the Mojave Desert). In Sonoran Desert, the area of the Saguaro National Park is also not listed as a subregion (in line with the listing in the article List of North American deserts). Wormke-Grutman (talk) 13:15, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The Saguaro National Park is considered part of the Sonoran Desert ecoregion, although it is on the edge near the Madrean Archipelago (ecoregion). It is definitely not part of the Arizona/New Mexico Plateau.  See this EPA map of Arizona's ecoregions (Saguaro National Park is near Tucson). The Saguaro National Park also isn't considered a separate sub-region of the Sonoran Desert — you'll find the park listed in the Sonoran Desert article in the "Sonoran Desert protected areas" section.   However, I don't see the "contrasting views" you mention.  I can't find the Saguaro National Park listed on the List of North American deserts page at all. —RP88 (talk) 14:24, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

This article is sorely lacking a map
Articles about geographical locations and regions should always include a map. Even if you know exactly where the "northwestern Mexican states of Sonora, Baja California, and Baja California Sur" are and what they look like, this article leaves you with significant confusion about the extent of the Sonoran desert because it's impossible to precisely describe in words. This is the first geographical article I've come across in a while that lacks a map, and its absence is immediately felt. A2soup (talk) 22:09, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Effects of climate change
This article doesn't mention any effects of climate change on the Sonoran Desert. Should they be mentioned in this article? Jarble (talk) 23:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)