Talk:Sophiatown

Importance rating
There is some uncertainty about the current "Low importance" rating for this article. It appears that the SA Wikiproject by default rates articles about suburbs at "low", but I'm sure an argument can be made that this one is a special case that deserves a higher rating. The example of District Six, which is rated as "mid importance", is IMHO comparable. Both suburbs were/are hot topics in terms of aparheid history as well as being significant factors in the cultural life of the country. Thus I would support this article's rating to be changed to "Mid importance" to match that of District Six. Roger (talk) 09:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with Roger that "Low Importance" is inappropriate. I would argue that the importance should be "High". I think that the impact of Sophiatown on Black consciousness by the largely the white population in South Africa is not understood. An article like Koos de la Rey is considered Hi importance, but his impact on South Africa is not commensurate with the impact that Sophiatown had on South African politics, arts, culture, etc. - and this is from an admirer of Gen. de La Rey and an Afrikaner. Another data point is the treatment of Sophiatown by SA History Online. It gets an huge amount of coverage compared with an entry in the same encyclopaedia like de la Rey. I think there needs to be some consistency in the treatment of topics like this. The University of Johannesburg also named their new student residence "Sophiatown", which I think reflects the social importance of Sophiatown. ShiningWolf (talk) 10:14, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with the proposal that the Sophiatown article be classified as of "High Importance". The events surrounding Sophiatown epitomise the approach adopted by the Apartheid government towards racial segregation and town planning, and illustrate an important episode of South African history. Moreover, the description of life in Sophiatown provides a valuable insight into multi-racial culture in South Africa before Apartheid. 147.110.55.155 (talk) 14:08, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure it should be "High". There are only a small number of High rated articles in the entire South African WikiProject and more specifically, when it comes to articles about places only the former Colonies, Boer Republics, former and current Provinces, and Metropolitan cities are rated High. There are no urban places smaller than a Metro rated as High. I'm basing my support for a "Mid" rating on the precedent of the long established article about District Six which arguably has a similar level of significance in the geography and history of the country - which, we must remember, is about far more than only Apartheid and it's effects. Arguments based on what other websites, publications and institutions do are of little value in terms of the WP:OTHERSTUFF guideline. Roger (talk) 14:37, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * This is an interesting debate. I agree that no urban place smaller than a metro is "currently" rated as high importance. This is internally consistent to the treatment of urban places within the South African WikiProject. I dont think however it is consistent with the importance treatment of other topics. I think there should be urban places rated as "high" based on their impact.  The excellent article on Hendrik Pieter Nicolaas Muller is rated "High". The irony is that very few people know of him and outside of the borders of South Africa I think he is unknown  - but the importance of the article is "high". Based on this and the de la Rey argument I would then argue that certain urban places has a social and historical impact that should allow them to be classified as "high". This will make it consistent with other topics within the South African WikiProject. This should then hold for both Sophiatown as well as District 6. Analogous to this is the treatment of Harlem which has an "high" rating and is also an urban place, but outside the South African WikiProject. I think a "high" rating for both Sophiatown and District 6 will provide greater consistency within in South African WikiProject. ShiningWolf (talk) 15:59, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I've just taken a peek, Hendrik Pieter Nicolaas Muller is rated "Mid" not "High" - by WikiProject Africa, not WikiProject South Africa (note that multiple countries are listed in the Project template). I don't think it is really all that useful to compare biographies to place articles - apples and oranges. Anyway I think we can afford to wait for more people to comment - the wider the discussion, the better the outcome and Wikipedia doesn't have a deadline. Roger (talk) 16:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

What about Triomf?
I think this article is incomplete without a section properly covering the period when it was Triomf. Roger (talk) 19:38, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * ✅ Added section. Irony that not much happened during the supposedly "Triomf" years. Area didn't live up to the name. ShiningWolf (talk) 09:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Good article review
I have nominated the article to be reviewed for a good article quality rating. Roger (talk) 19:15, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The leads not bad, but could probably do with some expansion. Some reviewers look for it to briefly mention most of the sections in the body. Generalized statements like it was the epicentre of politics, jazz and blues and it produced some of South Africa's most famous writers, musicians, politicians and artists probably need a bit more context. AIR corn (talk) 02:16, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Rearranged sections
I have significantly rearranged some of the sections to better match Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Settlements: Article structure. In my opinion it also improves the flow of the article. Should you not agree, feel free to revert my edit. --NJR_ZA (talk) 17:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I like it! BTW Does this edit now disqualify you from doing the GA review? Roger (talk) 17:54, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think it will disqualify me as I did not contribute content. Not sure I am a good candidate to do a GA review anyway; my knowledge on the subject is limited and culture (which must form a large part of any Sophiatown article) is not really my cup of tea. --NJR_ZA (talk) 18:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Lead needs expanding; otherwise it's pretty good.  Aaroncrick  TALK 09:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Sophiatown today
This article seems to suffer a bit from whatever the opposite of WP:RECENT is... almost the entire text talks about the era prior to the forced resettlement, even down to notable residents (most of whom are possibly not residents any more?) In addition to a bit more info about the period when it was called "Triomf" it would be nice to know what is going on now. What is the demographic structure like? Have any blacks moved back in post-Apartheid? Or is it still just "poor Afrikaners" as the Triomf section suggests? Thanks &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:37, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

'Tsotsi' by Athol Fugard
Would it be worthwhile having a link/reference to the novel in the article, seeing as it uses Sophiatown (and the period of the forced removals) as its setting and explores the gang culture already discussed in the Crime and Gangsterism section? Might also be of interest for people looking for information about the film to read about Sophiatown, despite its more contemporary setting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.85.118 (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Social Sciences
When the police came in Sophia town in the middle of the night what happened 105.244.201.85 (talk) 14:02, 28 August 2022 (UTC)