Talk:Southern flying squirrel

Untitled
There seems to be some disagreement over whether the information on keeping as pets is worthy of inclusion. It is certainly accurate, and a review of other articles on domesticated animals (such as the chinchilla) suggests to me that it is also appropriate. ---- Michael Hays 21:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

For the record, as a random, web-surfing person who is not a common Wiki contributor, I find the statement regarding the keeping of the squirrels as pets to be biased. It explicitly implies a specific viewpoint (that the keeping of native wildlife -- even CAPTIVE BRED native wildlife -- is a bad thing), and I thought that this was not what Wiki was all about. This IS an opinion, not a fact, regardless of what "experts" supposedly state. (For the record, I am a veterinary student and I do keep some native species as pets and believe that it is entirely possible to do so responsibly, if only people are willing to take the time to learn to do so.)

How about just saying something like, "Southern Flying Squirrels are commonly kept as pets; however, many jurisdictions regulate the keeping of native wildlife, and the practice is controversial."?

All "domesticated" animals began as non-domesticated animals. Chinchillas were domesticated only within this century.

71.174.13.243 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:05, 21 September 2008 (UTC).

Chinchilla's are NOT NATIVE TO NORTH AMERICA. BIG DISTINCTION HERE. COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES IS NOT GOOD SCIENCE. The keeping of native wildlife is frowned upon by the huge majority of scientists. Not to mention many, many jurisdictions in NA have made it illegal except via special permit. And the flying squirrel is NOT A DOMESTICATED ANIMAL. I apologize for the all-caps text, but you sure know how to frustrate a person with your inability to grasp the difference between a domesticated and wild animal, and native versus non-native wildlife.

Information on the keeping of wild animals as pets has no place on Wiki, IMHO.

Accurate, you say?

And I quote Mr. Hays - "and a poor diet can lead to rickets and death in a matter of hours".

This is one of the most ludicrous misinformations I have ever seen on Wiki.

It seems that you want to impose a PoV on Wiki that wild animals should not be kept as pets. That would seem to violate the whole idea non-PoV, unless you can provide data to support this sweeping generalization. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 20:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Link Inconsistency
To expand on the comment below, Wikipedia does not prohibit external links to pages that contain advertising; its guidelines merely suggest that links "normally to be avoided" include those with "objectionable amounts of advertising." Therefore, the user quoted below has no right to dictate that advertising be expunged from an external page for it to be valid. Because the page in question presents an interesting illustrated article on Southern flying squirrels, links to another good illustrated flying squirrel article at the same site, and has minimal advertising--fewer ads, in fact, than the existing "Isidore of Seville" link--it should be restored.--75.19.99.51 17:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

On 21 January 2007, a user deleted a new external link, justifying his or her action as follows: "Removed commercial link. Delete the ads on the offending page and resubmit. Wiki is not here to help people make money." A check of the other external links with this article revealed one with 14 ads. I suggest that someone delete that site, too, or else restore the deleted link. You can't have it both ways. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.177.252.45 (talk) 00:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Faunistic

 * What exactly makes that statement a "ludicrous misinformation"? Flying squirrels are prone to calcium defiency, which can lead to osteomalacia, otherwise known as "rickets," which can be prevented with a properly supplemented diet. A squirrel can die within hours of exhibiting symptoms. I've seen it happen, and I daresay I've had more firsthand experience with these creatures than you. As for whether or not information on how to keep animals has a place on Wiki, I personally believe the information to be relevant, judging by other articles. However, I leave it to the Wikipedia community at large to decide, and if that is not the general consensus, I am more than happy to remove this section. Having said that, I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my concerns. ---- Michael Hays 02:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Leave my deletions alone. I uploaded the info that I deleted recently, and you undid it. Leave the information that I contributed and then deleted alone. You are not a Wiki-god. And comparing chinchillas to flying squirrels - that"s a good one! I am blinded by your "science"!

As for your misinformation, you had best re-word your "will die in hours" statement by stating "will die within hours of exhibition of symptoms", as MBD (short for metabolic bone disease) is a CHRONIC disease. You, in your wisdom, make it sound like an ACUTE disease. It is also a condition that is found, for the most part, in captive flyers, NOT wild flyers. Why? Because these are wild animals with unique dietary and exercise requirements. Captive flyers are usually owned by people who should not own them. Hence, they develop MBD and die. MBD is not a concern in wild flyers. So keep promoting "flying squirrels as pets" and more will die senseless deaths.

The process Wiki people want me to go through to have your information modified so that it is correct is too convoluted to bother with. I don't have the time, and now, the inclination. You can now knock your brains out adding any info that suits your fancy - without interjection or comment by yours truly.

Goodbye!

Faunistic


 * First of all, if you had bothered to consult the history of the page, you would see that I am not the one who restored the info that you deleted. Although I do happen to agree with the person who restored it, since it was accurate. But whatever. Your ad hominem attacks are simply pathetic. I did not compare flying squirrels and chinchillas, I compared the articles. My "science" certainly is blinding. And shouldn't a disease that is found in captive flyers be relevant to a section on keeping flyers as pets? Call me crazy. I don't know where you get your idea that flying squirrels are owned by careless individuals, but I won't bother to argue it, because it's totally irrelevant. I guess I'll admit to wording one piece of information in a misleading way. So you have mentioned one problem that arises from misinterpretation, and you could have fixed that yourself with a small edit in the first place (instead, you chose to delete the whole section). Please, enlighten me as to the many other inaccuracies contained in the article, and I will be happy to discuss them – that is, if you can put on some big boy pants and handle things in a forthright manner. Now kindly quit blaming me for all your woes. —Michael Hays 23:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

From the desk of Michael Hays:

"Please, enlighten me as to the many other inaccuracies contained in the article".

Very well Mr. Hays. I obtained the Sheldon et al paper you seem to have fixated upon. After reading and absorbing this rather sparse missive, I found that NOWHERE is it mentioned that "flyers die within hours of symptom onset" or any reference at all to how long it took for symptoms to appear (from calcium-restricted diet). The worst so-called "experts" are the ones who blather about things they do not know. Next time you post a reference to a paper (or peer-reviewed note) that purports to subtantiate your fantasies, do us all a favor and read the damn thing first!

Faunistic


 * Look, friend, you seem to be taking this whole thing a little personally. I merely meant to cite the fact that osteomalacia is observed in captive flying squirrels, not how long it takes symptons to appear who how quickly they die. I think we can both agree at least that osteomalacia can be a problem in flyers. You have done nothing but nitpick on one sentence in this article so far, apart from calling the whole thing "silly" and "extraneous". A little civilized discourse could go a long way. I will say it again: please bring to light the inaccuracies present. What deeper issue do you take with this? Also, do not remove the link to FlyingSquirrels.com again, as it is a releveant link and removing it constitutes vandalism. —dustmite 21:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

BlueDustMite:

IF you had bothered to read the paper YOU CITED as PROOF that flying squirrels DIE WITHIN HOURS due to MBD, you would not have, assuming you are somewhat intelligent, taken the time to post on Wiki the erroneous information NOR post the reference to the aforementioned paper as your PROOF. The paper's summary states "Osteomalacia was accidentally produced in a group of flying squirrels by feeding sunflower seeds and peanuts." The colony of captive flyers was fed this diet for six months. You ASSUME that MBD is regularly found in captive flying squirrel populations. This is indeed, fortunately, not the case. Pretty much EVERY person who keeps flyers as a "pet" does better than that. But of course, you wouldn't know what the paper actually dealt with, would you? No, you just look at a paper's title and ASSUME. I doubt you have even read one flying squirrel-related peer reviewed paper in your life, yet you seem to think you are some sort of flying squirrel expert. This is the main problem with Wiki - people who have absolutely no science background have no business writing science-based digests. These people do more damage than good. If you want to push the "keeping flying squirrels as pets" agenda, do it on one of those pet flying squirrel bulletin boards. I have yet to meet or communicate with a mammalogist who advocates or condones the keeping of wildlife as "pets". Educational use, zoos, research use is OK, with caveats. Pets? No way. In fact, many (enlightened, I might add) US jurisdictions forbid the keeping of native wildlife as pets. Many US jurisdictions that currently allow the keeping of native wildlife as pets are considering adjusting their laws to prohibit same. Just so you know.


 * Do you in fact read my entire posts? I specifically said that I was citing the fact that osteomalacia occurs, not the time frame in which death can occur. That makes the paper relevant (yes, I have read it) and yes, osteomalacia is a very real threat to captive squirrels who do not have their diet supplemented correctly. Are you arguing that? The fact that it occurs is exactly why this kind of information is necessary. I won't bother to argue with you whether or not its "moral" to keep flyers as pets; that's beside the point. But as long as they are, this information serves a purpose. As for your contention that I have no background in science? Well, for someone who bemoans the evils of making assumptions, you've made a pretty big one (and incorrect, at that). —dustmite 22:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No more link inconsistency
As per your own direction, two offending links that contained commercial, for-profit advertising have been removed. Please respect the Wiki community. If you don't like this policy, and If the link is to a relevant and informative site that should otherwise be included, please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.123.158 (talk) 16:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

commonly not seen?
I've never seen these in the wild, despite seeing normal squirrels all the time. However, my cat killed and brought one home. Is this likely? I looked at it and all I could figure out was it was a dead flying squirrel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.157.23 (talk) 06:47, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Flying squirrels are mostly nocturnal, which likely explains why you've never seen them. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 23:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Flying squirrels -- the unknown days
"Parents leave their young 65 days after they are born. The young then become fully independent at around 120 days of age."

So what goes on in the interim? WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 23:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Southern flying squirrel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160106021252/http://www.conservationevidence.com/ViewEntry.asp?ID=578 to http://www.conservationevidence.com/ViewEntry.asp?ID=578

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