Talk:St. Johnsbury Academy

March 2007 Assesment
Hello all, and thank you for contributing to this school site. I'm part of the WikiProject_Schools/Assessment team, and, as it has recently been editted, then I'm reviewing this page. I'm currently giving it a grade of start on the Wikipedia 1.0 Assessment Scale and an importance of Low on this importance scale.

My reasoning is as follows: This article is extensive, but not well referenced. A lot of lists, some more pics and is someone else going to help .... it takes a few people to get a consensus. It also needs some Copy editing. Victuallers 17:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC) version2 Victuallers 22:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio
I have removed the text inserted by 166.87.255.132, at 21:34 on 19 May 2006, as it appears to have been copied from a copyrighted source: http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/109.Cbvt 18:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Image inclusion
I would put an image up but i don't know how, images can be found by searching on google if that is allowed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.25.2.174 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC).


 * A photo you took yourself would be ideal, as it should be easy for area residents, students or staff of the school (I'm not any of those) to take one that doesn't require fair use licensing and reasoning. TransUtopian 16:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Tone issues
The page is written in a highly personalized fasion. The following sentence "Also, a tirelessly devoted and amazing athletic trainer who gives excellent sports massages is on campus and has several students in his sports medication 2 course assist him. Many have gone on to study physical therapy or sports medicine and are ACT certified." supports such a writing platform. I suggest that this article be re-written; preferably from a neutral third-person view.Rajrajmarley 19:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed - I would like to see this article rewritten by a neutral third party to improve it however i attended the St. JA so i am not neutral... if anyone needs to improve an article this would be one Ikaveman 18:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

History
The school must have a rich history. This needs to be brought out by someone who has records available. The history needs to be significant, not records of annual balls or anything. Student7 03:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I do not have the records avaiable, but as an alumni i would like to see this section expanded because of our schools rich history and tradition. Be sure to include a section explaining the great football rivalry with Lyndon Institute. Ikaveman 18:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Gold Standard for High School articles?
Just went looking for a Wikipedia article that is highly rated for high schools. There weren't many! Anyway, one is Stuyvesant High School in NYC. They are a huge school. Nevertheless, maybe we can get some ideas from it.

It shows a lot of work. They have gobs of footnotes. They aren' perfect. Their first one refers to the "prestigious" universities their students go to. This is not substantiated by their reference. Sounds POV to me, but I wasn't about to mess with one of the few FA articles on schools in the world!

Another article is Hopkins School. They are smaller. Incredibly old. They have a tiny athletics subarticle. They discuss cost which seems reasonable. (The cost doesn't seem reasonable! The discussion seems reasonable!) Not a lot of footnotes.

The last is Plano Senior High School, another large scbool. Like most Texas schools, they are big on sports. Data is well organized and presented. Lots of footnotes again.

All have histories. See what you think. Student7 23:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that Hopkins School is the standard to strive for on this article. --Lendorien 13:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Revision
I've organized the list of alumni chronologically, as best I could. Two entries have no associated dates. I also note with some dismay the number of entries in the list of "traditions" that have no explanation whatsoever, which makes them essentially useless for non-students. (For instance, "Senior privileges".) Perhaps someone associated with the school could take on the task of telling us what these enigmatic entries mean, and what they are intended to promote or teach, or else someone is liable to come along and, recognizing their present non-notability and lack of informational content, delete them. Accounting4Taste 22:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've re-organized the alumni list alphabetically to match the style of featured articles in the "Schools" section. Accounting4Taste 02:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've done some work on it. I reformatted some things to get rid of lists and pulled the traditions section (which seemed unencyclopedic)and did some text edits here and there. --Lendorien 13:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

TO DO list
--Lendorien 13:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * History section needs to be expanded with more detail. It barely covers anything at all.
 * Needs an academics section written. It currently has notheing about the acedemic program, accreditation, etc.
 * Athletics section could use expansion. Details of the program, or perhaps notable accomplishments in the recent past.
 * Facilities section needs to be prosified and the most significant points drawn out. Historic buildings, etc. Perhaps more general overview than a list of buildings.
 * More sources required.
 * Needs a photograph or two. The school logo would be useful as well.

Private not Public
Several editors have tried to describe the academy as other than private. It has a board of directors, not a school board. It may take money from public school boards. That does not make it semi-private or public. (I would rather leave this in the article as a comment since the newbies making these remarks aren't even aware that a discussion page exists). Student7 (talk) 23:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

March 2008 Clean Up
I cleaned up this article to remove unencyclopedic content and copyvio text. I also sourced what I could and made a note where sources are needed. Keep in mind that school details are not necessarily encyclopedic and all sources must be reliable. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 03:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your cleanup. It is much improved. However, all schools have something about athletics. We the people won a statewide somethingorother. Buildings are important. This campus was vast by the standards of yesteryear. It is still pretty impressive. I think the buildings description was fairly terse. Having said that, the sports could have been cut down to championships only or simply naming active sports. There is a suggested outline at WikiProject Schools. Student7 (talk) 12:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The We the People team (www.civiced.org) was state and northeast champion (award given to northeast team in the top 10 overall at the national competition) in '99 I think and came in 3rd overall in '00 under history teacher and coach Daniel Dagenais. Avruch  T 13:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, I may have pruned too much and I apologise. I think it was reading too much like a campus brochure rather than an encyclopedic article. What do you think about the important buildings and their information going under history, which is looking quite sparse despite my efforts to flesh it out. Much of the recent articles are trivial mentions of local significance but the older stuff is available via the New York Times for free, which is where I sourced some of the alum and creation information. Anyone have access to the Christian Science Monitor? They appear to have covered the school quite extensively. I'm amazed Google has stuff from 1871, and I love it. Oh and if anyone can get ref 1 from the infobox to display anything besides the URL? Because I keep breaking that citation no matter what I do TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 14:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, let's start off by admitting that the article had needed improvement. Always helps to have new eyes. This may be a unique opportunity to take it up a level. Buildings. I would a) put them back in the way they were, but this did not sit well with you. I guess we need to understand that better. Another solution is to  b) summarize the buildings and fork them with the same specifics. Not sure the new building article would survive on its own though.


 * I'm not terrifically rigid about athletics. Clearly we need to mention championships. Probably had some prior to 2000 but that is ancient history to the kids and they just aren't interested in anything before they arrived in 2004 or later! Ah, well. Just list them? Okay to just list available sports?


 * Need to mention "we the people" victory, I think. It can be short.Student7 (talk) 23:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Point by pointish and I agree that this article could go up a level, I could see it establishing GA status for a school that's had such a long history and state/regional significance (I'm taking that from the coverage I've seen, I'm not at all familiar with the school).
 * Buildings, I agree that a forked article probably wouldn't last. What about mentioning the significant/long-standing buildings. Someone had already soured the North Hall and then I added the south hall. It doesn't appear that many of the newer buildings are significant or notable, or have I missed something? I don't think we need to mention every building on campus as that's more appropriate to their website. Thoughts on that?


 * I think sports could be consolidated and I agree with re-instating We the People but I think we need to add context as it wasn't clear that it was a significant win from the original prose. I'd also really like to find something on the history/founding of the school beyond the quote that you sourced. Articles refer to its traditions but no one really explains what they are, on the principle, I suppose that if you're reading about it, you know it.


 * Oh and your change in the voucher section makes sense, that was the text I "inherited" when I found the article and didn't monkey with it because I don't quite understand why the system is notable, although it clearly is from the amount of coverage it has.


 * PS: Thanks, Avruch, for fixing the link that I couldn't make behave for the life of me.

TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 01:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think we're pretty much in agreement on sports and we the people. On the latter, I had to count on a student for the original version. Will look for context online. Kids are hit and run contributors. Best stuff but not always there.


 * On buildings, glance at Florida Institute of Technology. To answer your question, it has been well-edited. I didn't like it to start. Of course, these buildings tend to be larger. It is a college. Agree that we don't want fluff though. Want to consolidate the gain we made when you edited it the first time!  :)  Student7 (talk) 02:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) I needed a change of scenery from my normal articles so decided to see if I could get WP:CleanUp down by some. Either way, this article was off it. When it was first listed for clean up apparently it had been vandalised into non-existence. The sources are easy to track down and it appears some of the buildings may have some heritage. Makes me wish the high school I graduated from didn't look so much like a prison! I'll see what I can dig up re: the buildings over the weekend. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 03:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes. The Boy's Reformatory of Upper Nyack. Well, lucky you graduated alive! Glad to have you onboard this article! :)Student7 (talk) 13:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ahh so you know the area? My class was lucky in that we were able to spend two years at the old Nyack High School when it was functioning as a middle school. I hate the new one with a passion. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 16:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll look around for citations to the We the People stuff. I was on both teams. I don't think its necessary to include something on each building - maybe North and South Hall, which are gone, Brantview and perhaps Colby/Chapel. Information about some of the newest buildings (Mayo Center, library) could probably be included on a section about school initiatives etc. I might someday be able to supply images, if I ever get around to a drive down that way. Avruch  T 14:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh so we have a 'notable alum' among us ;) TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 16:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Negroponte appearance
Just a minor comment. All national figures attract protest. What would be notable is that he attracted no protest. Just a thought. Since his appearance was routine, essentially a courtesy to his son, and not a dramatic announcement of new policy or anything. Student7 (talk) 22:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't even work out why he was mentioned as having given the commencement speech since in the ~200 year history of the school I'm sure he's not the only 'notable' commencement speaker. I figured while it was listed I'd give it some context and link down a couple of sections to the alums. Not averse to its removal at all. TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 01:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Notable coaches
Just an inquiry only. Since the one coach did achieve statewide notability, couldn't he be listed very briefly (shorter than before - one line at most) under "notable faculty"? The more lengthy explanation would be in his article if he ever had one.

I don't care for long notable lists myself. Another disclosure: I am not an alum! :)  Student7 (talk) 11:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Record of deletion
The following two people were not considered notable engouth for inclusion:
 * Albert Barney (1938), Chief Justice of the Vermont Supreme Court
 * Walter E. Bowman (1918), Secretary General, Federation of European American Organizations

These need to be re-added if and when an article is written AND a reference can be found tying them to the Academy.Student7 (talk) 20:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

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