Talk:Stand-up comedy/Archive 1

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Last comic standing
shouldn't the show last comic standing be mentioned in this article? - - [ The Spooky One ] | [ t c r ] 07:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, next to the reference to Star Search.Pink-thunderbolt (talk) 05:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Sources for the topic

 * I am a contributor in spanish and english wikipediae. I have realized that this particular topic has become very difficult in the sense of finding reliable exterior sources since for the first time we arechallenged to write about a topic that was usually regarded as informal. I might be wrong of course but if anyone here finds reliable sources please ad a comment here so I can use them in the spanish wikpedia. Thanks Camilo Sanchez (talk) 18:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

First sentence doesn't define the topic
Just a small quibble, but the first sentence of the article doesn't actually state what stand-up comedy is. It says what a stand-up comedian is. In the interests of clarity, I would like to remedy this, and generally clean up the first paragraph, by replacing said paragraph with the following:

"Stand-up comedy is a from of comedy where the performer speaks directly to the audience, with the absence of the theatrical fourth wall. A person who performs stand-up comedy is usually referred to as a 'stand-up comic', 'stand-up comedian' or more informally 'stand up'.  It is usually performed by a single comedian, and usually with the aid of a microphone.  The comedian usually recites a fast paced succession of amusing stories, short jokes (called bits), and one-liners, typically called a monologue, routine or act. Some stand-up comedians use props, music, or magic tricks in their acts. Stand-up comedy is often performed in comedy clubs, bars, colleges and theaters.  However there is no real restriction on where it can be performed."

Does anybody have any objections to this, or suggestions for improvement? I could particularly use a little help with style, tags etc, as I'm still getting the hang of Wikipedia's format. Dione Maddern 02:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Right, I'm changing it. Somebody can always change it again if they have something to add. Dione Maddern 00:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

 * "Stand-up comedy is perhaps the easiest field of entertainment for new talent to enter, because many smaller venues hold "open mic" events where the inexperienced can perform comedy before a live audience."

Is it just me or that an incorrect statement? Many music venues hold open mic (or "open stage") nights. --plattopus (talk) 19:27, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Music is undoubtedly easier to enter than stand-up comedy, mostly because of the prevalence of events for new and/or local musicians compared to those for comedians. However, it would be accurate to say that stand-up is the easiest form of comedy to enter.  As such, I'm changing that line to be more fitting. --Elfer 00:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer " can be a relatively easy" to "is perhaps the easiest". Can someone tell me what 'hits the money line' means? Or better, tell the reader... Pedant 06:52, 2005 July 20 (UTC)
 * Gee, you try to add a little color to captions... I meant that he's obviously just hit the punchline that pays off with the big laugh, and he's stopping, looking out into the audience, and taking in the moment.  Perhaps the use of the term "money line" in this context, meaning a pivotal sentence that hits with an emotional effect, is not as common as I'd thought.  I must admit I was rather surprised that mirrors of this page so dominate a google search for "money line" AND "comedy".--Pharos 07:32, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

In the External Links section, there are some links that are not really apropriate, I feel. They seem to be advertising web sites more than serving as an explanation of Stand Up. At the very least, I'm going to remove the Colorado-centric one. Some of the others might have a bit more merit.
 * I removed the link again -- it was put back by the same anonymous user.
 * Removed "http://www.empirecomedy.com - The source for comedy content online, from stand up, late night tv to movies, literature & radio." Placed by annon user. I probably wouldn't have even noticed it except it seemed so pretentious to call it "*THE* source".
 * It was replaced by the same annon user. I removed it again. It is a nice site, but it still looks like linkspam to me.  I'll stop yanking it when the user finds THIS discussion page and justifies the link's existence. --67.177.235.1 05:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I like the "how to" links, though. Wish there were more. --Mer2D2 07:11, 07 January 2006 (UTC)

Could somebody please revise the last 2 paragraphs, it makes it sound like Stand-up Comedy is something unique to america that has failed to spread to the rest of the world.
 * I seem to remember an American TV commercial for an imported German beer. It showed a very un-funny German comedian doing a stand-up routine.  "We don't do comedy.  We do beer." was the tag line, if I recall.  Anyway, my point is that there seems to be some thinking that Stand-Up is a strictly western feature.  I recall Eddie Izzard saying that his stand-up was oddly received in France.  If someone wants to create a "International Standup" section, I think it would be well received. --67.177.235.1 05:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

What's with the last paragraph of the history section? Is Wikipedia now allowing advertisements from schools? I've never before heard of KomedyU and I don't think they've had such a big impact on the Stand Up Comedy world that they deserve special mention in the History section. Nor are they the only comedy school or training center. I'm going to change the paragraph. As far as Chris Rock's impact on stand up's resurgence, I have some doubt, but I'll let it alone. I'd like to see a citation for it, though.

Another thing: No mention of Chicago at all? Chicago has been a center for comedy that rivals NYC and LA. (And I say this as a proud L.A. native). Countless stand up comics have come thru Chicago. Hasn't anyone ever heard of "Second City"? I'm really not knowledgeable enough to add a Chicago section, but I know someone out there must be.


 * I agree the fact that there is no mention of Chicago seems ridiculous. I don't really know enough about it to put a section in but some one really should add it. 131.230.146.135 (talk) 03:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Screw it, that whole last paragraph needs work. I'm only going to do minor surgery on the Chris Rock part, but the last two sentences have got to go. 216.175.76.146 17:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

One man show?
I was loking for an article on one man shows, but that doesn't seem to exist. Then I looked here and found the description in the first paragraph is somewhere between that and what I thought a stand up comedian was. I thought a stand up comedian steps up from the audience, does a few jokes for about ten minutes and then makes way for the next. What else does the term mean ('stand up from the audience', right?). So shouldn't the intro then state that?

What I mean by 'one man show' has only one thing in common with this, namely that it is one person on stage. For the rest, it's a long show (one or two hours) that may involve some theatre, but the focal point of which is the humour. An example of this is the 'old year shows' in the Netherlands, started by Wim Kan (no article yet? Where is our national pride? Oh yeah, forgot, we Dutch can't be bothered with that :) ). Another fine example is Freek de Jonge. Might the term 'one mand show' be Dutch? (Despite it being English - wouldn't surprise me.)


 * I don't know much about one man shows but I do know a lot about stand up. The two could be considered similar in overall execution. Except I tend of think of a one man show is more rooted in theater, in stageplays, while stand up is more centered around doing bits or jokes or narratives depending on style. And stand up comedians who are doing a whole show tend to do 45 minutes to 75 minutes of material (at least in America, in England they often go longer). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.210.57.183 (talk) 14:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

By the way, what is a fourth wall? DirkvdM 12:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The "fourth wall" is a stage term that refers to the audience (the back and sides of the stage are the other three "walls". "Breaking the fourth wall" essentially means speaking directly to the audience or otherwise reminding the audience that they are watching a scene. Rob 18:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, the term One man show exists in English -- could also be referred to as "Solo Performance." Another term is comic monologue --Larrybob 21:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

The first couple of paragraphs appeared to include some weasel words and redundant phrases, such as referring to stand-up comedy as "many performers" feeling that stand-up comedy is "the hardest" theatrical discipline. While that may or may not be true, it's simply stated as fact without any reference or citation to an actual outside source making those claims. I changed the wording and removed some of the phrases to try and make the article a little more neutrally worded.

Now if someone has verifiable quotes from performers that say, for example, "I think stand-up comedy is the hardest theatrical discipline to master", then it would be appropriate to add a sentence that says "So-and-so was quoted as saying yada-yada-yada" (with appologies to Seinfeld).

Where are the WOMEN?
We are at least 10 paragraphs into the history section before any women are mentioned explicitly (there is an early reference to Burns & Allen, but the novice wouldn't know the latter was Gracie Allen). While certainly I don't want to inject women's names into the history undeservedly solely to be politically correct, there are several major female stand-ups from the early days onward: Phyllis Diller, Moms Mabley, and so on. (Sorry if those links turn out to be duds -- I'm partly testing and setting up in case there's no article.) The success of the early ones is all the more remarkable for the fact that as women, they were bucking societal expectations; M. E. Kerr writes in her autobiography that her mother warned her about humor being unfeminine, using Fanny Brice as a cautionary example.

I'll try to make it back to research this and add some info on these women, but the school year's starting and I'll be a lot busier, so anyone who knows this stuff by heart would be welcome. (I find that in comedy and music, among other fields, even the most widely recognized and admired women don't come to mind as readily as the men, for whatever reason -- even for us women.) Lawikitejana 04:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Honestly, it's a male dominated field. I think a few major successes need to be mentioned like Kathy Griffin, Janine Garofolo, and Paula Poundstone need to be mentioned, but if it's mostly guys, there's a reason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.85.183.1 (talk) 15:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Why not include a section about it being a male dominated field. I remember a panel discussion on Political Incorrect discussing this afterr Jerry Lewis stated that women aren't as good at stand up, in no uncertain terms. As I recall they sort of agreed (definitely agreed that it was a male dominated field), and wondered if it wasn't due to the differences in way men and women think and also socialization effects (a woman is less likely to see pro-social effects by trying to be funny while growing up). Also don't forget to mention Wanda Sykes and Sarah Silverman. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.210.57.183 (talk) 14:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Location-specific links
I've removed external links specific to the following locations from the article: Washington, DC, Nashville, Luxembourg, Buenos Aires, Louisville, and San Francisco. I don't object to any especially notable links, but Wikipedia is not a link directory and it doesn't seem neutral to have links for these places but not others. Wmahan. 21:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I am the one who added http://www.sfstandup.com, a guide to stand-up comedy in San Francisco. It's true there were not links to many places, but that is because most places don't have a comedy community large enough to merit one. In just the short time it was listed, I heard from 2 people who were happy to have found it. Please consider re-listing. Thanks. cl


 * I don't have a problem if a neutral editor wants to vouch for the link and re-add it, but you are not allowed to add links to your own website; see External links. Wmahan. 20:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Rest of the world?
This article seems to only refer to American comedians while I thought that Wikipedia was supposed to be a universal site. Perhaps some research could be done into comedy in the rest of the world e.g. here in Britain there are hundreds of hilarious comedians. Whoever wrote the article seems to have done narrow research. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.129.251.17 (talk)


 * I think if you could suggest some examples, I think those examples would be well received. Infinoid 13:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

2 examples are Eddie Izzard for england and Daniele Luttazzi for italy. Karl Kraus' lectures may qualify too. --BMF81 13:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

And perhaps highlighting some of the Australasian comedians. I know there may be less iof them, but stand-up is a high point of comedy in these parts, as opposesd to say sitcoms.


 * It is an American form. Stand up Comedy did not exist before it emerged in the United States. To this day it barely could be said to exist outside of English-speaking countries. UK, Ireland, and Australia need mentioning. The Netherlands is already mentioned. Is there anywhere else in the world where there's a vital comedy club scene?

I have to say that having a big warning at the top of this article about not being global enough, when we're discussing an art form that was created and continues to exist overwhelmingly in America comes across as ignorant and frankly detracts from the articles expected quality. Better to simply begin working on a section, or seperate sections, for stand-up comedians from each country where stand up is popular, than put up questionable alerts.

I wonder where you would get the idea that stand-up comedy was created in America? It has clearly developed from many roots, but these would have to include comic acts at theatres in Europe going back several centuries. There were certainly people who had many of the characteristics of modern standups (appearing solo on stage, with a succession of jokes and/or comic songs) in Shakespearean-era London theatres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.10.176.118 (talk) 23:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that a lot of the confusion about comedy outside the USA may arise because, unlike actors or musicians, relatively few comedians from outside the USA achieve fame there, although they might be household names in their home country. For example, I doubt that Steady Eddie or Rodney Rude would be widely known outside Australia. Similarly, there's not likely to be a lot of cross-over appeal for comedians who perform in a language other than English. Stand-up doesn't exactly transcend the language barriear. Anyway, I'm going to do a bit of research and try to expand the bit about Stand-up comedy in Australia. Hopefully some passing reader will get all indignant about it and make sure their own country gets a look-in too.

Dione Maddern 03:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, I think that Canada should really get a specific mention too, if only because it hosts a major internatinal comedy festival. That is to say, I know the festival is mentioned, but it probably needs a bit more info on the scene in Canada in general. Dione Maddern 01:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The assertion that Stand Up Comedy "is an American form" is a huge assumption, and so far there has been no decent evidence given here to support it. The article states (in the History section) that stand-up has its roots in late 19th Century vaudeville, but you only have to look at the Wikipedia page for Music Hall to discover that comedy was an integral part of British entertainment from the mid-19th Century onwards. The article, as it stands, is ludicrously biased towards the American part of the history of stand-up and fully deserves to have the "does not represent a worldwide view" warning stamped on the top of it. I don't (and wouldn't want to) doubt the contribution of American stand-ups to the art-form, but the traditions of stand-up comedy, and a lot of its origins, exist just as much in the UK as they do in the US (I don't know enough about stand-up in the other English-speaking countries to comment on them).

As for dealing with stand-up in more recent years, again the article has a huge US-bias. The largest arts festival in the world is held in Edinburgh every year and these days it's known mainly for its huge number of comedy acts. And there are hundreds of comedy clubs in London alone, and have been for decades. Just because Americans may not have heard of Billy Connolly, Ben Elton, Bob Monkhouse, Eddie Izzard, Frank Skinner, Frankie Howerd, Jack Dee, Jasper Carrott, Ken Dodd, Lee Evans, Lenny Henry, Max Miller, Paul Merton, Ricky Gervais, Rowan Atkinson, Steve Coogan, Stewart Lee, Tommy Cooper, Tommy Trinder, Tony Hancock and Victoria Wood (to name just a handful of the hundreds of comedians that have been famous in the UK), that doesn't mean they haven't contributed to the history of stand-up - it just means (to re-use a term from above) that you're ignorant of them. Bomberarris 03:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I've attempted to give a brief (very brief) overview of the stand-up comedy scene in Germany as it stands. Obviously, it's somewhat patchy and incomplete, as I'm a UK Expat living in Germany, but I am in a position to at least give something of an insider view, as I'm currently taking my first steps in stand-up. stevedix 21 June 2007

I have added a discussion of Singapore and Hong Kong. I invite people knowledgeable on other countries to add more discussions of other countries. Australia is a clear omission.Gchuva (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC).

Wikipedia:Notability (comedy)
I've created Notability (comedy) to help editors in deciding the notability of comedy- and humor-related articles. Please help hammer it into shape. --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 09:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sugggested External Link
Please consider a link to... ...for observations about the relationship between culture and comedy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paul Niquette (talk Paul Niquette 21:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)• contribs) 21:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Cultured Laughter by Paul Niquette

Established actors?
Robin Williams, Billy Crystal, and Eddie Murphy are listed as having been "established" actors who then went on to perform stand-up. I'm not sure about Crystal, but I'm almost the certain the other two started out doing stand-up in clubs before going on to acting. This should probably be double checked and corrected if needed.

Actually, Robin Williams went to Julliard as an acting student before getting into stand-up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.164.47.2 (talk) 09:16, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Comedy Festivals
Should the content of this particular area be merged back into the main article, into the respective National areas, or should the additional comedy festivals noted in the main text for each nation be moved to this para? The treatment of the festivals seems somewhat inconsistent, esp. in view that at least one national entry is entirely based round a festival. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevedix (talk • contribs) 14:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

London and provinces?
rapidly expanded out of London and into the provinces  what provinces? Is this some sort of expression? I'm asking because the UK doesn't have any provinces, but counties. Would this need rephrasing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.143.18.23 (talk) 19:38, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Possibly, they would reference province  in the same manner that some people employ  country  to imply a  suburb, or something  rural. In this sense, "country" & "province" seem to be intended as regions in &/or near a major  metropolitan not entirely  urban, not one of the more urban portions of a  metropolis.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 13:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 'The provinces' is sometimes used in England (well, London) to mean areas outside the capital, similar to the French term en province. 'The regions' has a similar meaning. Both are slightly pejorative, and not immediately obvious to outsiders, so should probably be avoided in this article. Terraxos (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

appointment disappointment  appoint   point
Sometimes standup,  stand-up,  stand up,  stoodup,  stood-up,  stood up, can reference the perception a person not arriving for a scheduled appointment, not participating in an appointment, not fulfilling an expectation, not complying w/ a desire, not abiding a  promise,  agreement.

In this sense, a person may be speaking of the other person's actions as being comedic,  humorous, or seriously insulting; but, it is always about something not having been accomplished.

Further, the appointment may have been of various natures such as sexual, romantic, platonic, community, cutural, business, government, official, personal, et cetera.

Now, does anyone know how to look-up the etymology & history of this application? Does the origin reference someone realizing that they have spent some twenty minutes standing, leaning against doorways & trees? Stand, stood? Does it reference the preference to have been lying next-to the other person? Does it reference having been on display f/ derision, teasing, insult? Is it a combination of each of these?

Thank You,

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 13:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Stand-up (the noun, as in a comedy act) is different from to stand (someone) up (the verb, as in to not arrive for a date, etc). Standup comedy refers to the comic: standing up in front of a crowd to deliver jokes. I don't know (and can't find) the etymology for 'to be stood up'; it's just one of those idomatic phrases that appear. I don't think there's any connection, since being stood up isn't about humour: 'to stand' has so many idomatic variations in meaning in English that it's unlikely there's a connection. Artiste-extraordinaire 10:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Irish Stand ups
I have been living in Ireland now for a number of years and was amazed by this article.

Surely you can't have an article about stand up comedians without having a section on Irish comedians.

The sheer number of successful Irish stand ups deserves a mention, particularly because the country is so small.

Ireland is to Comedy as Holland is to football. For its size it produces a disproportionate amount of talent.

What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.95.190.2 (talk) 16:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Monowiki (talk) 22:01, 21 December 2009 (UTC) have started a section (In 'around the world', which is probably not the right place, considering how many famous Irish comics there have been over the years and continue to be) for Ireland. The section probably needs to be fleshed out to make it read 'The History of Standup In Ireland' - like the US and UK sections...

Grand Theft Auto IV
Well in GTA IV you can also watch stand-up comedians. Should it be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megaman en m (talk • contribs) 23:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Deceased?
Is it necessary to as a '(deceased)' tag to every person to whom it applies in this article? I don't think this is standard and I have seen no other articles that work like this. Mal7798 (talk) 15:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Derivation / history / definition of the term
What this article still lacks is a clear definition and derivation of the term. Most examples of stand up comedians seem to have been imagined after the fact. There doesn't seem to be an original stand up comedian, and all regional descriptions merely describe the wave of linguistic popularity of the term "stand up" since the 1990s.

I suspect the term "stand up" has its origins in English pub culture where for many centuries, a tradition has been upheld where any guest of a public house could stand up, call for attention, and tell a story or a joke, do a trick or sing a song. The impromptu audience would usually respect the stand up artist but might heckle a poor performance.

If properly supported by historical evidence, this derivation of the term could help us define stand up comedy as an impromptu, short-lasting and fast style of comical entertainment, and would explain the original workfloor of many stand up comedians as the open mic nights that led them to become the all-night entertaining theatrical showmen. Stand up comedy could then be defined as a short, fast-paced performance lasting 10 minutes at most.

As the article stands, it gives the impression that an hour-long televised theatre show could still be called stand up comedy. I propose that instead stand up comedy should be defined as a springboard for aspiring comedians in an informal setting that is short, fast-paced and unpolished. Stand up comedy is defined by these traits, which describe its delivery, not its theatrical form or (indeed) the types of jokes you might expect.

The BBC has broadcast a couple of very informative documentaries on the subject. Most describe modern day comedians' careers as originating in stand up during open mic nights where performances last 5 minutes at most and audiences are harsh and critical, not as defining stand up. --JeR (talk) 16:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems to me that the One man show? section on this page reflects the same kinds of questions I am posing here. Whatever all-night shows some stand up comedians go on to deliver, calling "stand up comedian" their trade would be improper. --JeR (talk) 16:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Stand up is not just done alone
Not all stand up comedians, "stand alone" on stage. Some stand up comedy is done is duos (as in a double act or Japanese manzai) or in groups larger than two. So I deleted that reference. ask123 (talk) 20:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Red links
There are quite a few wikilinks to uncreated articles from this article. Are all of these people really notable / likely to have articles created for them? Would it be inappropriate to change some of them to not be links? The big runs of red text are tough on the eyes. &mdash;Mu Mind (talk) 01:24, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you have to read this in conjunction with List of stand-up comedians. I won't have time to do it myself this weekend, but my feeling is that they should be sourced, or go. Hengist Pod (talk) 01:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
Is it the opposite of sitcomedy? Or must the comedian/enne stand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.0.85.111 (talk) 21:42, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've always understood "sitcom" (assuming that's what you meant to say) to mean situation comedy. Hengist Pod (talk) 21:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

But what about stand up. That's what's missing in the article. Is it a reference to sit(uation) comedy or does it stand on its own as reference to the body position of the comedian/embed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.254.19.73 (talk) 01:33, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Similarities with Chinese Xiangsheng
Maybe this can be added to China and those culturally related countries. The art is very similar to Xiansheng, which is also a talk show filled with punchlines. Xiansheng is more often performed as a dialogue between 2 performers, but performance in the form of monologue is not uncommon.Yel D&#39;ohan (talk) 10:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Greece
Lot's have happened in Greece during the last few months (two big festivals and a new website). I'm planning on adding new stuff, since the old ones are outdated. Just letting you know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leylaqq (talk • contribs) 05:46, 12 November 2011 (UTC)